God makes me sick!

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The Big Bang created time as well, so it is hard to speak of "before" the Big Bang. The BB created our little stretch of spacetime and what is "before" or "outside" is pretty hard to find out. Is there even time outside of our universe?

I suspect the answer will turn out to be quite mundane and highly unsatisfying for most people. i.e. someone will figure out the big bang is simply following a mathematical formula whose origin passes through zero. A simplistic analogy would be Y = X^2. In this analogy think of Y as the size of the universe and X as time elapsed:

I didn't watch this video, but it's just to inform you that this guy was a false guru. If you don't believe there are true gurus, at least know that this guy was ill intentioned _ as opposed to the well intentioned.


Anyway, Movie Fan, is there anything in the bible that says that, if done, guarantees that god will kill you? Like saying his name 3 times? Or saying his name backwards 7 times? Something like that? I would like to try it out...

And you can have the result of my experiment.

Yeah, if Moviefan2k4 has a YouTube channel where he spews the same mix of nonsense and misinformation as he does in this forum, then that it makes it more necessary than ever for more and more people to see how unsupported by evidence his opinions are. Think of the children!

Notice that I said Moviefan2k4 is spreading misinformation. I did not use the word "lies" (even though what he says is false) because I am giving Moviefan2k4 the benefit of the doubt here to be charitable to someone who could (based on the content of his own posts) possibly be mentally deficient. Apparently Moviefan2k4 is too wlilfully ignorant to ever check out what the actual facts are when he is challenged on his b.s., but maybe he has checked them out and he is truly unable to understand. Or he could be insane, and usually that is not anyone's fault so again I am not saying he is a bad person. Of course being wicked is the last choice of the four options in the Dawkins scheme of describing those who deny the fact of evolution.. But even if Moviefan2k4 is not deliberately spreading misinformation for some evil purpose, the results of his doing so (if left unchallenged) most definitely are harmful to our society, our species, our planet, and to Christianity! By continuing to deny demonstrable reality, he is making Christians and Christianity look really really stupid.

Moviefan2k4, if you really love your country AND love Christ, consider educating yourself (if it is even possible for you) so you will not continue to spread falsehoods that make the USA less competitive in the global market and that could very well turn people away from Christ too. I am not a Christian myself, and it isn't the fact of evolution that turned me away but the blatant dishonesty and lies of creationist sources.

I cannot believe God would try to trick us when everything we can observe and measure from every branch of science is consistent with and points to the reality that evolution happens (yes, even macro evolution).

Last edited by TheBicyclingGuitarist on 31 Mar 2014, 7:16 pm, edited 4 times in total.

You know, he's just wrong. It's not the end of the world and we don't have to be unpleasant about it.

And now a word from Pat Robertson:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWAbr-SoMAs[/youtube]

Pat Robertson lecturing creationists on being silly. This might be the final sign before the apocalypse.

Skepticism and not believing in a book of fairytales followed by scientific evidence debunking myths does not equal hate or bullying! Yet religious people get extremely angry and franticly find an argument to stump those skeptics but those strawmen get easily torn down time and time again.

I have nothing personal against Moviefan2k4. As the Bible teaches us to do, I hate the lies but love the liar. With the access to information made possible by the internet, more and more people are finding out how wrong certain denominations of some religions are about certain subjects and leaving the churches in droves. Of course anyone can find anything they want to see on the internet whether or not it is true, just as anyone can support just about any position imaginable by quoting verses from somewhere in the Bible and/or by saying their interpretation of those verses is the only correct one. But generally, the truth will come out.

That Pat Robertson has made a public statement against Young Earth Creationists is a good sign. In my lifetime I might even see some fundie branches of Christianity finally admit they were wrong. Or of course if they don't admit they are wrong and more and more people see that they are (because of the increased amount of verifiable information available all the time and increased access to that information), in my lifetime I might get to see some fundie branches fade into obscurity as failed crackpot cults. Either outcome would be tremendously satisfying. I love it when lies are exposed and truth prevails.

Time doesn't really exist at least not like you think. There really isn't any time. Time is just a measurement humans created to establish order in their world but it doesn't really exist.
The universe does exist, obviously and was created somehow. There are still unanswered questions.
Space-time is not the same as time like we experience looking at our clocks.

I don't expect God to be the answer but I don't think of God like most because I am gnostic and dualistic which just means I see beyond matter and believe it just confuses people.
I just want to know what happened to spark such an event. An equation might explain the event but what actually happened to make it occur? Anything? Or did it just occur or did it ever occur and that's just an error in human perception?

The thing that saddens me is that people who really adhere to these things are trying their best to do what they believe was right, what they were inculturated to see as right, and quite a few who haven't had to chance to read the Bible, or in other cases the Quran, are educated with the condensation and refiguring of the book - something that ends up sounding much more coherant but ignoring some of the most keynote features of what's in it.

So many people don't have the time or ability to read through 2,000 page books, I consider myself phenomenally lucky not to be in that category. Others who have had to work 40 hours a week from a relatively early age, support a family, support an ailing parent, etc. etc. or had to fight to survive - have to take the people teaching these things on their honor and even those people are stuck in a position where there's a certain cultural 'straight and narrow', currently documentary thesis for the whole bible, and if they don't stick to that they're pegged as part of the problem or, especially since 1948 and the refounding of Israel, they'd be seen as part of the fallen church. It's not a good situation for anyone really.

I maybe should have tried to explain more. Just like in the equation / graph above. Nothing happened to make the graph move from the point 0, 0 to the right. There was nobody pushing it, no god, no miracle, no spark making it happen, but if you look a teeny weeny bit to the right there is now some space and some time has elapsed. As to what (if anything) is to the left of the graph is not known. Maybe the graph of reality had no extension to the left past zero time. In which case asking what existed prior to the big bang would be meaningless to ask as there was no before, time did not exist.

The analogy still holds though. There was nothing, no space no time then there is space and time but no spark making it happen, it just happens following a mathematical equation, just like in the graph. I expect the universe will be found to follow a very similar principle.

Try dropping the idea of omnipotence. It's a type of magic and we don't usually believe in magic the rest of the time, but the superstitious ancient scroll writers did. If God is not magic and can't do impossible things any more than we can, then he has not screwed anyone over.
Instead of the afterlives heaven and hell, try the afterlife ghosts. A rational Occam's razor picture that the spirit simply continues to exist in the same cosmos where we already are, with no paradise, bereft of the power to take any material actions through a body but at least no longer subject to violence.

Not obvious at all. A universal spirit, an infinite dimensional particle held to be everywhere, can't occupy space to the exclusion of all its other contents. For then there would be no contents and none of us would exist. So he can only be the same thing as all the space's contents, including all of us. To those who accept the postulate of spirits at all, it's an ancient idea that has a common sense appeal, that we are all parts of the whole, and the whole universal spirit that some circumstantial experience suggests to exist simply exists as the total we all add up into, the spirit from the infinite angle while we are spirit from the finite point angle. (It's speculation what spirit is, I propose it's the particle form of time.)
We are within God but we perceive God as other because the overwhelming majority of him is other, because we are only a small part.

You people sound more complicated and prone to doomsaying than the religious people like me you are talking about. Being tolerant of other religions is what we are supposed to do as Christians, showing love and compassion.

God is no more a pervert than you Aspieotaku, knowing you watch all that ecchi...

So is it possible the big bang has always existed and we just think in terms of time when it doesn't exist? In other words it's just there and always was. Nothing created it. It just existed and will always exist.

Yes..interesting.. the idea of GOD as a separate entity from human beings is a lonely creation..and the 'pefect' way for the early patriarchs to control their subjects through fear of a mythological vengeful.. anthropomorphic AND violent GOD..as well as one with prudish morals on human sensuality and sexuality...

SIMPLY TO CONTROL REPRODUCTIVE FREEDOMS..FOR 'WEAK MALES'..WHO are afraid to compete on their own...and afraid of not owning their genes rather than sharing them with everyone..as we are the same ..in genetic material..overall...

The 'pefect' storm of GOD..created by many as an evil muse and promiser of gifts in the afterlife..for behavior modification 101..with carrots and sticks...

But Haha..Jesus comes along and 'says' hey folks.. all that's BS..'i' spent 40 days in the desert..and watching nature ALL alone..'i' determine GOD IS IN ME AND EVERYTHING ELSE...

AND THEN HE SAYS..YOU ARE FREE MY FRIENDS..HEAVEN AND BLISS IS IN THE NOW..JUST BE KIND TO EACH OTHER AS YOU WOULD BE KIND TO YOUR SELF AND LOVE AND GET ALONG AND COOPERATE....FOR THE GREATER GOOD OF THE TRIBE OR 'SPECIES...

A smart natural scientist dude with COMMON SENSE..that Jesus dude was..and of course a little adulterated in the story of TRUTH in the New Testament modern versions...

But regardless of who speaks the GNOSTIC Gospel of Thomas the OBVIOUS UNIVERSAL TRUTHS of man and GOD in man IN ALL OF NATURE..ARE THERE FOR THE TAKING for those who understand the deepness of existence and we are GOD2...as sons AND DAUGHTERS of GOD.. like butterflies as butterflies of GOD..

We can be as free as butterflies..if we so choose TO live a real dream of heaven NOW WITH SIMPLE HUMAN WILL...

Or create whatever hell ...our imagination will allow...

And ha ha..modern horror movies..show..that humans are very good at creating illusory fears..AND EVEN NIGHTMARES..AS THE CONSTRUCTED EVIL..WE FEED OUR MINDS COMES BACK TO Haunt US..

as Nightmares..as we torture ourselves unwittingly with these illusory fears of imagination...

The only two we are born with innately are falling and loud noises..all the other fears..created as tools..to control others..for material gains..and in an attempt to try to control..the natural world..

Instead of just flowing with it...

Let it go..flow..'says' the butterfly..

But the caterpillar still marches on as slave..earthbound..but still as one with GOD..the ONE GOD that is ALLITIS..

rather than the antI-christ of ANTI-ENLIGHTENMENT ..THE SILLY LITTLE HUMAN BEING...creating complex language..living off of the collective intelligence of other folks..and developing a culture..of CONTROL..INSTEAD OF THE WAY OF BEING..OF NATURE..SIMPLE FREEDOM.. HOMEOSTASIS ..OTHERWISE KNOWN AS simple animal bliss...in the HEAVEN OF NOW...

YES THE HUMAN...LIVING HIS OWN LITTLE NIGHTMARE ..THAT GOD IS SEPARATE FROM HIMHER..AND SHEHE HAS NO CONTROL OVER HEAVEN IN THE NOW...

UNLIKE HISHER MUCH MORE 'INTELLIGENT' BUTTERFLY AND CATERPILLAR....

'brothers and sisters'.....'WHO' SIMPLY LET IT GO..FLOW..AND DO

WHATEVER IT TAKES IN THE WILL OF SURVIVAL...

Well..i find GOD in nature..including me..i suppose maybe it's 'cause i lived in paradise on the beach anyway..

And the evidence of it was all around me.. and in me.. so dam OBVIOUSLY.. WITH NO FRIGGIN' SIGNS OF HUMANS OR THEIR BYPRODUCTS OF CULTURE..AS FAR AS 'EYE' CAN SEE....

AND STILL THE SAME AS SIMPLY FREE WITH GOD IN ME AND ME IN GOD..FREE WITH THE REST OF CREATION..EXCEPT FOR SILLY LITTLE LOST HUMANS CREATING THEIR OWN..HELL..NOW..

THE SADDEST CREATURES OF ALL...

HUMAN..

but nah..it don't have to be that way..not our nature at all..

We more instinctually reflect the peaceful Bonobo primate..our closest primate ancestor...with a similar
empathy gene unlike all the other primates..and fertility all the time..for a sexual revolution of SEX all the time..

NOW!

With thank GOD some friggin' primate common sense..living peacefully resolving potential conflict...

with simple sexual stimulation...

And haha..'RAVES' are just a modern HUMAN extension of that..bumping into each other..saying excuse me...

and then BUMPING AND GRINDING into who and whoever...

Just for peace..and bliss AND THE EXCITEMENT OF FUN...
FUN...OPENING UP THE PRIVATES..AND THE SECOND CHAKRA FOR FULL EMOTION..CREATIVITY..AND FULL SENSUAL CONNECTION TO THE ALLITIS....

I GO DANCE WITH THE 'BONOBOS'...

AND LEAVE THE HELL TO FOLKS SCREAMING IT ON STREET CORNERS..'LUNATICS'..OF HELL OF THEIR
OWNED CREATION...THE DEVIL OF THEIR OWN MAKING THEY ARE...

A CREATION OF SADNESS..THEY CREATE THEMSELVES TO BE...

BUT NAH..ALL IN THEIR CONTROL..IF THEY SIMPLY CHOOSE INSTEAD..TO LIVE IN HEAVEN..THE BLISS OF NOW...

INSTEAD OF THE ABYSS..THE HELL OF MISERY..OF SEPARATION..FROM WHAT THEY ARE....

GOD!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Z8WRdGIZoU[/youtube]

(NOTE: CAPS USED FOR EFFECT..of affect..FOR PASSION OF BEING..not screaming in the emotion of angry)

Last edited by aghogday on 01 Apr 2014, 9:20 am, edited 3 times in total.

That is one way of looking at it. Wherever you are on the time line the big bang sits at the beginning of it. There was no "before" the big bang because time didn't exist prior to then.

Another way of expressing the principle is that in the beginning there was nothing, zero. But zero can also be expressed as the sum of +1 and -1. We now have something(s) from nothing. Similarly those numbers can be expressed by more numbers, think of this as iterations in time. From nothing and no spark, we now have things, it is simply a question of perspective where one sits on the time line.