Do most men on WP hate women?

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NinsMom
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11 Apr 2014, 4:14 pm

Hopper wrote:
It seems so sometimes, but that could easily be confirmation bias. Any kind of hating is much more noticeable than the not-hating. There does seem a lot of it, though.

We' hate' what we don't understand. Usually there is lot more lack of communication or actual interaction in 'hate' situations. People in one group who have little to do with another group may 'hate' them, or at least be suspicious of them. I think that's the case here. A lot of men & women (Aspie or NT) spend a lot of time with their same gender. They have little understanding of what going on with the other gender, & they may only have stereotypes or misinformation to decipher what's actually going on.


I think there are several things going on, in a venn diagram kind of way:

First, the general gender rancour which abounds in NT society - no reason, unfortunately, why this wouldn't be reflected amongst autists and aspergians. Gender relations and identities are not as fixed as they were/could be, and this is upsetting to people who don't have issues with needing routine/difficulty understanding others/are given to fixed, binary thinking, let alone those who do.

Yes! I can see how in my case there was misunderstanding. I was @ the, "Let's have a coffee & see how it goes," stage, & I think he was waaay beyond that in his thinking. We did get along fine, but our times together were short. (minutes) I had difficulty with him being that far ahead of me. It just came off as 'control', & I don't like controlling people. A lot of other people got involved in this. I never really got asked what I thought, wanted, expected & it scared the heck out of me. I felt stampeded & overpowered by a group of people that I didn't know. I got no input from him & I wasn't asked for any of my own.

That people with Aspergers are supposed to be more 'logical'. Therefore, goes the thinking, if I think something, it is logical, and so right and good. And if I don't understand something - like, say, women - that can only be because it is illogical. And illogical is bad.

I may owe that man an apology. He came off as 100% NT, & I expected him to behave in an NT way. I expected more of him than he was capable or comfortable doing, & I was completely ignorant of Aspie. problems, & I'm likely not that good at understanding them now. I'm likely not 'hating' but am very upset by what happened because I DO NOT UNDERSTAND ANY OF IT! (& nobody took the time to explain anything to me.. I had to figure out myself that he was an Aspie much later. I am not in the local Loop. No one tells me anything. I simply did not know!
I didn't fade because he was an Aspie. I simply got overwhelmed by things happening that didn't make any sense to me. When I tried to get answers, I got none.

Probably me "liking' him made him think that I was farther into this than I was. I had liked him from Day One, but I couldn't do anything about it @ that time. When I asked him about status a year later, he seemed to be in a relationship, so I backed off. (He sure didn't act like he was in a relationship!) I was pretty bummed out. I had not wanted a lousy rushed relationship under time constraints, & now a year later, I seemed to be offered a lousy relationship under time constraints. ( Ie: fooling around behind his G.F's back.) Up until that point, I'd considered him to be very honest & trustworthy.

Similarly, an attachment to a certain take on being 'rational', and from that a certain scientistic/biologistic essentialism as to how men and women 'really' are - with women not living up to their end of the bargain, or saying (through speech or behaviour) they want one thing when 'science' tells us they should want something else, and frustration at women who aren't behaving as they are ('scientifically') supposed to.

I may have confused the issue. I did gently hit on him, but I would not have if I hadn't gotten the "I'm Single" vibes from him. (I'm still wondering about the "sort'a G.F." he made. What is a "sort'a G.F.? That's kind'a like being "sort'a pregnant" isn't it? Either you Is or you Isn't. )


This relates to the PUA/Game/alpha crap. Those who otherwise have bad luck with women turn to it for help. It affects how they see the world - not just in how they think women are, but in the very idea that they are there to be manipulated into bed.

Someone has pointed out to me that this may not have been an actual 'contest'. Apparently sometimes if one person decides that they like somebody, it's kind of 'contagious', & it becomes a contest in a way, but not really organized. Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but I'd like to think that @ least in the case of the man I liked, that it was not PUA, but I'll Never know, i guess. I do know that in his case I did feel manipulated by the people around him, & the fact that he was talking to Everybody, except me.
In the case of the other guys in there, I just felt creeped out. I had no interest in them, & showed no interest in them, beyond being polite & civil. (& one of them didn't even deserve that!)


Understandable given the demographics, but there is a definite US-centrism on the board. From that, an assumption that gender relations as experienced in the present time US reflect some deep state of 'nature', and so any perceived confusion on the part of women is testament to their inherent, ineluctable duplicitious nature.


I think a lot of the Fundamentalist Religious viewpoints that have surfaced lately in the U.S. have influenced a lot of how people relate to one another, even in Canada. It's made everything more difficult. Women are back to being either "Whores" or Saints'. Women do not get to be just average, flawed human beings anymore. I know that I've been tarred with a pretty nasty brush for being Unreligious, even though nothing in my life merits it. Part of my problems with this situation was that I had no idea if the gossip was influencing what was going on here. (I'm 100% sure that some of these guys had been taken in by it.)
I broke my own rule. Never like or attempt date anybody who lives or works in my nasty little communittee, because their view of me will be tainted by B.S., & lies.
I was never sure if all the cloak & dagger, 2nd. party communications, & on the down - low stuff from the man that I like was because he was ashamed to be seen or associated with me in any way. If that was the case, I'm glad that things never went forward. I am older than him. Maybe that was a problem, too? Enough sneaky digging into my life seemed to be done to see if I was "Good Enough"(?). That annoyed the Hell out of me too. I'm @ "Coffee date" stage & I'm already being 'checked up on', followed etc.. There was no relationship. Nothing had happened to suggest that it was 100% sure to be one. Liking is liking & taking it beyond that is another stage entirely. I can't go that quickly!
I guess, "It Was All None of My Business"? 8O )
[b]



Last edited by NinsMom on 11 Apr 2014, 5:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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11 Apr 2014, 4:26 pm

I love women. Some of their habits could be irritating. Some could be enchanting. Such is the Human Race.



HamsterOfChaos
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12 Apr 2014, 1:43 am

I don't hate women at all, at least not any more than men. I've had good and bad experiences with women, in relationships, friendships, and in work environments. My boss is a woman, and she treats me fairly and with respect, even though my social peculiarities crop up from time to time. Sure, I've had my heart broken more than a few times, but I can't really blame an entire gender for that, can I? Especially when it's the gender I'm still so attracted to. It would be pointless for me to even try to hate women, because I'll always want to have one in my life romantically, and I find it's pretty impossible to truly hate the things that I desire the most. For instance, if you really love to eat chocolate, try just hating it for awhile. I can almost guarantee you won't be able to stay mad at it forever.


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12 Apr 2014, 3:16 am

When I hate, I hate everyone, not just women.


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12 Apr 2014, 5:11 am

Yes..yes they do...*ducks*

Disclaimer: this was a joke it is not to be taken seriously! If you took this seriously regardless of the disclaimer you lack a sense of humor please inhale some nitrous oxide in order to get yourself to laugh.


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JacobV
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14 Apr 2014, 12:19 pm

I think the resentment and indifference by NA men towards women comes from the fact that so many of us NA men are treated like untouchables. We resent the fact that much of the things that attract women to men (mostly confidence and money) is something most of us will never be able to attain.

But most importantly we resent the fact that for every 10 single young man (20's or 30's) there only seems to be 1 single woman. That's a 10:1 ratio. This is unfair, it guarantees that many young men will spend their lives alone, and it is so very frustrating and against nature and as slow as we are, we realize this.

There are multiple reasons for this. One of them is the fact that men of all age (20 to 100) are attracted to and desire the same women (20's to 30's) that young men do, except these older men have money and confidence. On top of that, we must add the many quasi-polygamous relationships out there where a man has a second or third girlfriend in addition to their wife or girlfriend and that the nature of women (not somuch unlike men) is that they would rather get a few hours of an attractive/rich man's time than settle for an average man full-time.

All this sets society up for a very unpleasant time if you're a man and an almost intolerable time if you are an aspie man.



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14 Apr 2014, 4:26 pm

Wind wrote:
I thought I would never pass, having awful concentration and self-esteem issues, and always getting flusttered, but I did it. It took me 2 years of learning, and 4 driving tests at £150 each, but I finally did it.
Driving skill is appealing not only to a woman, (you'd be able to drive your woman around, and your children) but it would also appeal to a high wage job.

Heh, yeah I have wanted to drive. But I have no eye-hand co-ordination (dyspraxia). I can barely cross the road without getting run over unless I concentrate. I deliberately calculate routes that minimise the number of times I have to cross the road. I nearly killed myself at my school's cycling proficiency practice by driving the bike into the front of a bus... not really sure it is worth the risk to my own life or other peoples' to drive given that I am highly likely to misjudge distances and be unaware of the surroundings. Most people here aren't dyspraxic though and don't have the eye-hand co-ordination issues I have.

It also seems like a lot of money and time when there are other things I am far more interested in. I mean, granted it would be useful though I live in an area with reasonable public transport. But equally I have little motivation to do it when my primary job - software engineering is heavily based in London and I know for a fact that it would take a significant portion of my life for something that doesn't really hold much interest at all. I may do it eventually if I feel motivated enough for some reason. But feeling socially obligated to do so for "wimmins and jobz" is the kind of thing likely to trip my inherent perversity and stubbornly not do it. There are things I my life I've pushed myself to do because I really want to do it. In this case... I have no real motivation, so I don't really see why I'd put myself through the inevitable horrorshow that would be myself learning to drive. If anything I'd rather just inch closer to London where the whole issue becomes academic. Walking and cycling to work is also probably the one thing that has stopped me from putting on excessive weight.

I would however like to fly a plane, as the cost-benefit analysis seems more tilted towards a satisfactory edge. But of course... eh I'm colour blind so this won't happen. Damn my f*****g genes...

I can't speak for other aspies here, but for myself, I don't think I really want a significant relationship anyway. I mean, the sort of relationship most people have would be pretty suffocating for me. I need my solitude. I can't really see myself wanting to be around someone incessantly. I have no interest in children at all, and I typically despise the kind of values and characteristics of 99% of the population on an almost instinctual level. Whilst some level of compansionship is theoretically nice it seems so weighted with a need to accept alien values that the notion of a traditional relationship is kind of abhorrent. I wonder whether, distilled through all the anguish is this fact, that the kind of relationships with people that aspies might typically want are basically impossible in all but the rarest circumstances. I accept there is a choice to recalibrate yourself to 'improve' in a societally dictated way, or accept isolation and you don't really have cause to complain for the sake of your own existential fate... I think personally the cost is too high, and the benefits too distorted often by the motivation for sex, remove that and friendships would suffice. My grandfather was probably an aspie, and for family reasons was pushed into an unhappy marriage. He ruined my dad's childhood and his sisters simply because he didn't care, and left them for a woman who was more than likely taking advantage of him financially. He probably should never have had children, but got socially conned into it in an age where such pressures could be intense. Avoiding this has its benefits, I'd be pretty damn miserable to give up my intellectual pursuits for the sake of other people, as terrible as that sounds.

I've been described as deeply unhappy before - and maybe that is true - but it comes down to observations that go beyond this small topic, to a sort of weary cynicism, and I'm not really sure whether having conformed or having a girlfriend would've made my life happier. I'm sure there would have been benefits, but many sacrifices too - and as times goes by I kind of accept that I am lucky to avoid a certain fate many fall into, but still functional enough to earn enough to partake in my interests. I am damn well going to get a PhD.



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07 May 2014, 11:15 pm

smudge wrote:
Oh NinsMom, a lot of WPers hardly frequent this forum for that exact reason. The place is rife with objectification and misogyny. You just avoid it in the end, because it's all the same topics, the same 'advice' and the same responses. Everybody here just refuses to change their opinions. I quote spongy from another thread:

spongy wrote:
if you ever need a laugh go to love and dating.

Pick any two threads. Any.

Try to play spot the differences among the things regulars say in those threads.


Just so we are clear this is not helpfull advice.
Nevermind what thread you are on regulars will turn it to: girls have it easier/ nice guys^tm /okcupid/pua and everyone will just try to post their own personal opinion on the subject for the millionth time.


I have never noticed what the OP is talking about but then I rarely if ever venture into love and dating. Maybe it's the type of threads people are following.



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07 May 2014, 11:20 pm

I've also seen a number of men who appear to be married or in long term relationships on this site. Again, I think this comes down to the types of topics people are drawn towards. I've been with my girlfriend for just over three years now and I am still close friends (albeit by long distance) with my last serious girlfriend before that. I've grown apart from my mother in the last 5 to 10 years or so but I have my reasons. I can't even see how people treat each other according to sex and gender online. It's too abstract. I can't invest that much in words on a screen.



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07 May 2014, 11:24 pm

I love women, especially when they are sucking on my cock.



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07 May 2014, 11:34 pm

desertnomad wrote:
I love women, especially when they are sucking on my cock.


your wit astonishes. :roll:



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07 May 2014, 11:51 pm

What's a woman?



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08 May 2014, 12:36 am

starvingartist wrote:
[quote="desertnomad"]I love women, especially when they are sucking on my cock.


your wit astonishes. :roll:[/quote] :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Your going to generate major aggro there mister!


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08 May 2014, 12:48 am

JacobV wrote:
I think the resentment and indifference by NA men towards women comes from the fact that so many of us NA men are treated like untouchables. We resent the fact that much of the things that attract women to men (mostly confidence and money) is something most of us will never be able to attain.

But most importantly we resent the fact that for every 10 single young man (20's or 30's) there only seems to be 1 single woman. That's a 10:1 ratio. This is unfair, it guarantees that many young men will spend their lives alone, and it is so very frustrating and against nature and as slow as we are, we realize this.

There are multiple reasons for this. One of them is the fact that men of all age (20 to 100) are attracted to and desire the same women (20's to 30's) that young men do, except these older men have money and confidence. On top of that, we must add the many quasi-polygamous relationships out there where a man has a second or third girlfriend in addition to their wife or girlfriend and that the nature of women (not somuch unlike men) is that they would rather get a few hours of an attractive/rich man's time than settle for an average man full-time.

All this sets society up for a very unpleasant time if you're a man and an almost intolerable time if you are an aspie man.


What about those younger than 20 and older than 100?


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08 May 2014, 2:59 am

starvingartist wrote:
desertnomad wrote:
I love women, especially when they are sucking on my cock.


your wit astonishes. :roll:


Hey, he's allowed to fantasise.
He'll be unbearable when it actually HAPPENS... :wink:


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08 May 2014, 4:48 am

Tim_Tex wrote:
JacobV wrote:
I think the resentment and indifference by NA men towards women comes from the fact that so many of us NA men are treated like untouchables. We resent the fact that much of the things that attract women to men (mostly confidence and money) is something most of us will never be able to attain.

But most importantly we resent the fact that for every 10 single young man (20's or 30's) there only seems to be 1 single woman. That's a 10:1 ratio. This is unfair, it guarantees that many young men will spend their lives alone, and it is so very frustrating and against nature and as slow as we are, we realize this.

There are multiple reasons for this. One of them is the fact that men of all age (20 to 100) are attracted to and desire the same women (20's to 30's) that young men do, except these older men have money and confidence. On top of that, we must add the many quasi-polygamous relationships out there where a man has a second or third girlfriend in addition to their wife or girlfriend and that the nature of women (not somuch unlike men) is that they would rather get a few hours of an attractive/rich man's time than settle for an average man full-time.

All this sets society up for a very unpleasant time if you're a man and an almost intolerable time if you are an aspie man.


What about those younger than 20 and older than 100?


When I started noticing girls and women, about the age of 13-14, my range of oh-my went from my own age up to early 50s. Though even then, when the hormones were a-fizzing and a well turned door handle could probably have got me excited, I seemed far pickier than my friends. I'm now 34, and taken, but that age range of women I find attractive (in the broadest sense, not just 'good looking', as it ever was for me) now runs from about mid twenties to mid sixties.

For every man complaining women won't date him or notice him, I'll wager there are many, many, many women he would not date, or even notice as potentially dateable. The ironic thing is, JacobV flat out declares this and still expects some kind of sympathy.


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