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Who_Am_I
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12 Apr 2014, 7:46 pm

tarantella64 wrote:
Who_Am_I wrote:
If someone gets banned for expressing misogynist views, it isn't going to reform them. They'll just go out into the world with even more resentment towards women. It doesn't make the world a safer place for women; it just makes your little corner a bit more comfortable.


So this corner, and that corner, and pretty soon misogynists have about as much fun as smokers when they're looking for a place to give off a lot of poisonous stuff.

spongy just said that the mods are instructed, effectively, not to moderate for sexism. So how does reporting help?

Also, again, I think you're missing the point. I don't come here to battle sexism, it's not like I've got nothing else to do. I shouldn't have to battle sexism at all. Not in this forum and not on the rest of the site. Neither should anyone else.


So you don't want anyone to battle it, but you don't want it to happen....?
If you don't want it to happen, some battling may need to be done. The best way is to actually report specific posts rather than coming over here and snarking.

Where did Spongy say that?
From Rule 1:
Quote:
Unacceptable content includes swearing; racist, sexist, homophobic language;

"don't moderate for sexism" seems contradictory.


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tarantella64
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12 Apr 2014, 11:29 pm

Who_Am_I wrote:
tarantella64 wrote:
Who_Am_I wrote:
If someone gets banned for expressing misogynist views, it isn't going to reform them. They'll just go out into the world with even more resentment towards women. It doesn't make the world a safer place for women; it just makes your little corner a bit more comfortable.


So this corner, and that corner, and pretty soon misogynists have about as much fun as smokers when they're looking for a place to give off a lot of poisonous stuff.

spongy just said that the mods are instructed, effectively, not to moderate for sexism. So how does reporting help?

Also, again, I think you're missing the point. I don't come here to battle sexism, it's not like I've got nothing else to do. I shouldn't have to battle sexism at all. Not in this forum and not on the rest of the site. Neither should anyone else.


So you don't want anyone to battle it, but you don't want it to happen....?
If you don't want it to happen, some battling may need to be done. The best way is to actually report specific posts rather than coming over here and snarking.

Where did Spongy say that?
From Rule 1:
Quote:
Unacceptable content includes swearing; racist, sexist, homophobic language;

"don't moderate for sexism" seems contradictory.


Read spongy's posts earlier in this thread -- the directive from Alex is apparently not to moderate but to '"let people look ignorant". And indeed on other threads on this site I've seen someone complain and a mod say that, well, this or that just doesn't seem sexist. Which leaves me thinking that some education in what "sexist, racist, homophobic", etc. language is might be necessary.

I didn't say that I don't want anyone to battle it; I said that no one should have to deal with it. As someone coming here to read and post, no, I don't want to battle it, I have more than enough other things in my life to deal with. On most sites, it's the job of moderators to...moderate. Delete such posts and warn members that that sort of talk won't be tolerated. Nor is it my job to educate every sexist who wanders by in what sexism is. Will I do it sometimes, yes. But the analogy of having to have a brawl when all you want to do is enjoy the park stands. Nobody coming here should have to deal with being assaulted by racism, sexism, homophobia, etc. when they're just here to talk to other people living with autism.

I do notice that people become very exercised indeed when there's anything resembling "autists [suck in some way, shouldn't be allowed to X]", and you would think that similar sensitivity would be extended to other such prejudices. But it isn't. And that's where moderation comes in.



Who_Am_I
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13 Apr 2014, 2:42 am

Quote:
Read spongy's posts earlier in this thread -- the directive from Alex is apparently not to moderate but to '"let people look ignorant".


I did, and he did not say that Alex said not to moderate. He said that Alex said to let people look stupid.

What sort of language exactly are you talking about in the events where moderators have disagreed with you about what is sexist? Are you sure it's a case of moderatorial ignorance and not you misperceiving things?


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Deceptive cadence: V- ANYTHING BUT I ! !! !
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tarantella64
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13 Apr 2014, 7:39 am

Who_Am_I wrote:
Quote:
Read spongy's posts earlier in this thread -- the directive from Alex is apparently not to moderate but to '"let people look ignorant".


I did, and he did not say that Alex said not to moderate. He said that Alex said to let people look stupid.

What sort of language exactly are you talking about in the events where moderators have disagreed with you about what is sexist? Are you sure it's a case of moderatorial ignorance and not you misperceiving things?


Gosh, are we to "you're just too sensitive, sweetie" already? Really, would you please go educate yourself about sexism? It isn't our job to do that for you.

Also: Read more carefully, please. I did not say I had called for the mods to remove things. I said that other women had and been told that there was nothing wrong with what the guys were saying. In every one of those cases, the women were correct, the posts were offensive -- actually, the threads had generally been offensive for pages by the time the woman called for removal of a post. Spongy -- who is a mod -- has also explained reasonably clearly what the rules are. If you can wander around on the site being racist, talking about wanting to rape women, and being homophobic without having your posts yanked, then there is effectively no moderation for the things you've listed. Spongy also explains why that is so: Alex mistakenly believes that debate will take care of these things, so is willing to let people "look ignorant". He appears to be entirely unaware of the effect of those "ignorant" statements on other people or the conversation generally.

As for me, I've been involved with women's issues, women's centers, women's rights, and women's legislation for over 20 years, and I'm reasonably well-educated on the subject of what constitutes sexism at this point. I don't think the mods know much about it (or sexism, or homophobia, or prejudice and its effects of any kind -- terribly ironic), or that Alex does, and I suspect that's the problem. I'm a middle-aged single mom with multiple jobs, though, and I'm very much disinclined to spend what free time I have earnestly educating Alex and his mods. I'd be much more inclined to let the more impassioned parts of the world do the educating for me, though I really would suggest Alex get his s**t together before that happens. It's not nice when it does.



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14 Apr 2014, 8:07 am

Just to add - it is exactly like seeing a racist saying over and over again, "BLACK people do this. Black people are selfish and use you. Most blacks are out to use you. You need to keep alert about black people. If you use this type of system you can learn to control them."

As for the reasoning of "being just a few dumb people who should be educated":

NO-ONE here gets educated. They remain totally racist still. They remain bullies.

It is NOT about freedom of speech. It is ALL about abuse.

The men go to L&D to vent about how much they hate women. It does not look good at all on the Asperger's diagnosis. It looks terrible.

Think about that website for partner's of people with AS. Look at those shootings that are linked to AS. Does anyone with Asperger's want to associate themselves with those? Of course not. The people on here freak out at being associated with anything like that.

...So why associate with abuse and misogyny? How is that going to help anyone with AS get by in life? It is just causing an even bigger divide. It is the last thing people with AS want.

It needs to stop. These so-called posts opening up "debates" about "who has it easier". Those posts are only created in order to blame. It has a very unpleasant atmosphere here. It makes people with AS look incredibly backwards, controlling, and unable to see right from wrong.


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14 Apr 2014, 8:33 am

A lot of people are idiots, especially on anonymous forums. Once you assimilate that and realise the person is not a poor reflection on you and does not affect your life in any way it is easier to let it all go.
I do think this site is very poorly moderated in the content that gets posted considering they allow kids and teens to view most of it. There's a lot of unchallenged racism, misogyny and various other forms of ignorance, but then there's a wide variety of people posting from a range of backgrounds with different life experiences and values. The overall feel of the place except in the Parents and In Depth life discussion forums is very teenage boy angsty. It would be interesting to find out the average age of members on the site.



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14 Apr 2014, 8:37 am

Also, a proper ignore feature would make the browsing experience better.



starvingartist
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14 Apr 2014, 1:56 pm

smudge wrote:
Just to add - it is exactly like seeing a racist saying over and over again, "BLACK people do this. Black people are selfish and use you. Most blacks are out to use you. You need to keep alert about black people. If you use this type of system you can learn to control them."

As for the reasoning of "being just a few dumb people who should be educated":

NO-ONE here gets educated. They remain totally racist still. They remain bullies.

It is NOT about freedom of speech. It is ALL about abuse.

The men go to L&D to vent about how much they hate women. It does not look good at all on the Asperger's diagnosis. It looks terrible.

Think about that website for partner's of people with AS. Look at those shootings that are linked to AS. Does anyone with Asperger's want to associate themselves with those? Of course not. The people on here freak out at being associated with anything like that.

...So why associate with abuse and misogyny? How is that going to help anyone with AS get by in life? It is just causing an even bigger divide. It is the last thing people with AS want.

It needs to stop. These so-called posts opening up "debates" about "who has it easier". Those posts are only created in order to blame. It has a very unpleasant atmosphere here. It makes people with AS look incredibly backwards, controlling, and unable to see right from wrong.


+1

i resent the implication that it's my job to fight sexism if i want to come here and share ideas. i have to fight sexism everywhere in life as it is, it gets bloody tiresome. i thought when it comes to internet forums it's the job of the moderators to prevent people spreading hate and abuse.



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15 Apr 2014, 11:21 am

Just so we are clear(even though it has been said on several threads in the past):


If you want things to change you really should approach alex

While we can all agree that the rules are too loosely implemented in several aspects, this being one of them, they are done so at his request.
If we were to change anything we would be reprimended by him.

You can:
Approach him on twitter/facebook/go to the contact alex section of this website.

There is literally nothing we can do about the rules



tarantella64
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15 Apr 2014, 3:04 pm

spongy wrote:
Just so we are clear(even though it has been said on several threads in the past):


If you want things to change you really should approach alex

While we can all agree that the rules are too loosely implemented in several aspects, this being one of them, they are done so at his request.
If we were to change anything we would be reprimended by him.

You can:
Approach him on twitter/facebook/go to the contact alex section of this website.

There is literally nothing we can do about the rules


Got it. Would you be supportive of moderating more aggressively?



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15 Apr 2014, 4:32 pm

Here on WP I feel ok in all the subforums.
But IRL the "spaces where women can be themselves" are generally the one that make me feel sad, angry, horrible, uneasy the most. Because I am one of the "hideous creatures that are born of the wrong gender" (words of the other girls in 7th grade).



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15 Apr 2014, 10:37 pm

Who_Am_I wrote:
On a non-moderatorial note, you are always free to argue against the offensive points of view that members hold. I'd say that a compelling argument is more good than simply smacking someone's bottom and telling them that they can't play on this website anymore.
If someone gets banned for expressing misogynist views, it isn't going to reform them. They'll just go out into the world with even more resentment towards women. It doesn't make the world a safer place for women; it just makes your little corner a bit more comfortable.


have not met a misogynist yet who would listen to any argument no matter how reasonable, I am female all I am to them is a meal fixer, cleaner and a hole to use when they are horney


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16 Apr 2014, 3:12 am

tarantella64 wrote:
spongy wrote:
Just so we are clear(even though it has been said on several threads in the past):


If you want things to change you really should approach alex

While we can all agree that the rules are too loosely implemented in several aspects, this being one of them, they are done so at his request.
If we were to change anything we would be reprimended by him.

You can:
Approach him on twitter/facebook/go to the contact alex section of this website.

There is literally nothing we can do about the rules


Got it. Would you be supportive of moderating more aggressively?


I have moderated more aggresively in the past on L&D.

Right until members complained to alex.

Alex took the time to contact me to tell me to let users be and stop moderating so aggresively.

Please approach alex and change his mind. The minute that happens I will go back to moderating more aggresively.