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Tequila
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thomas81
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22 Apr 2014, 7:26 pm

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Ha. Not nearly as hard as he'll be hit when UKIP runs roughshod his union, increases his retirement age, privatises public health services, increases university tuition fees for his children and exacerbates the gentrification of inner city areas forcing ordinary people to flee miles to find affordable housing. All while giving tax breaks to their wealthy Etonian and banker friends in the city and turning a blind eye to their offshore accounts.


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Sure. Why pay for the Eurocrat's celebrity lifestyles when you can pay for the celebrity lifestyle of Nigel Farage and his colleages instead?

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Well the answer to the opening question should be pretty obvious :-
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Tequila
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23 Apr 2014, 2:28 am

thomas81 wrote:
Sure. Why pay for the Eurocrat's celebrity lifestyles when you can pay for the celebrity lifestyle of Nigel Farage and his colleages instead?


Nigel Farage wants to abolish his own job and theirs too. There will be more in the parliament in May who agree with him.

thomas81 wrote:
privatises public health services


I don't know where you got this from. UKIP has no plans to privatise the NHS. Some in the party do as we're a broad church. (Some are rather left-wing, in fact.)



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23 Apr 2014, 4:19 am

That 'daily grind' one is fascinating. The UK is now getting into the 'disavowed class anger' thing. This isn't good. Mr suit-and-tie could be the boss of those people if this were pitched from a left-wing, dare I say 'truer', perspective.

And the worker one - cheap labour can be as much a problem abroad as here. At least if we were to raise and enforce the minimium wage, there'd be more money going around. Do UKIP plan to draw up laws that stop companies in the UK moving to an overseas, cheaper workforce? To raise and enforce the minimum wage, to embolden workers' rights? I assume so, otherwise they don't look like they care about workers so much as they just really, really don't like foreigners coming here.

I assume UKIP are pro the free movement of capital. So, why are they against the free movement of labour? I'm hugely confused. :roll:


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thomas81
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23 Apr 2014, 9:45 am

Tequila wrote:

Nigel Farage wants to abolish his own job and theirs too. There will be more in the parliament in May who agree with him.


Pull the other one. He comes from a money'd background. Not him or his ilk want to give up their lifestyles, quite the contrary.

Tequila wrote:


I don't know where you got this from. UKIP has no plans to privatise the NHS. Some in the party do as we're a broad church. (Some are rather left-wing, in fact.)


Oh, They won't privatise it overnight. Not even the tories or Nu-Labour were that brazen. What will happen however, is you will see a salami slicing operation that sees department after department sold off to the private sector. You will see the prevalence of more BUPA style centres and private dental clinics, and the flight of public doctors and resources to the private sector while waiting lists increase for anyone unfortunate enough not to be on a private plan. What the tories are doing essentially, but in fast forward.

The nazis had some rather left wing economic policies too, but that was nothing more than lip service to dupe the lower classes to voting for them. I've no doubt UKIP has borrowed a few footnotes from them.

Any party that fails to specifically disavow the interests of capital and big business, invariably ends up serving it while in power. We've seen it time and time again and theres no reason to believe UKIP will be different. I believe UKIP will be even worse, as they trip over themselves to blow smoke up the arses of the wealthy indigenous.


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thomas81
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23 Apr 2014, 9:55 am

Hopper wrote:

And the worker one - cheap labour can be as much a problem abroad as here.


The whole point is that indigenous British workers ought to be fighting for better and higher paying jobs; not competing in this race to the bottom to get crappy, abusive, non-unionised low paying jobs being done in manufacturing molasses in China or in call centres in Mumbai.

The reason British workers get taken for a ride is because they are willing to put up with the crap that their French, German or Scandanavian counterparts won't.

Thatcher, now her student Nigel Farage and his ideological brethren have numbed us into an apathetic stupor, believing that better is impossible and that we need to partake in their agenda that will accomplish nothing other than entrenching the class divide.


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Tequila
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23 Apr 2014, 11:34 am

thomas81 wrote:
Pull the other one. He comes from a money'd background. Not him or his ilk want to give up their lifestyles, quite the contrary.


What has having money got anything to do with Farage's desire to leave the EU, thereby abolishing his job at the European Parliament?

He is a conviction politician - his allowance at the European Parliament means nothing to him.

He's not a multi-millionaire or anything like that I don't think - he comes from an upper middle-class background, but not the elite.



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23 Apr 2014, 11:47 am

thomas81 wrote:

Ha. Not nearly as hard as he'll be hit when UKIP runs roughshod his union, increases his retirement age,

The thing people should be really worried about is reduction in worker's rights, a.k.a. "Brussels red tape".

The "75% of laws" is a severe overestimate too, which Clegg called Farage out for in their debates. It comes from a statement a German (?) MEP made when he said 75% of EU laws are made by the European Parliament rather than the Commission, which was mistranslated. The true figure depends on your definition, but it is somewhere between 7% and 50%.



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23 Apr 2014, 12:00 pm

The worst thing that could happen at the next election is that UKIP and Conservatives form a coalition. I can see it coming.



thomas81
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23 Apr 2014, 12:09 pm

Tequila wrote:

What has having money got anything to do with Farage's desire to leave the EU, thereby abolishing his job at the European Parliament?

Abolishing his job at the European Parliament won't prevent him or his friends opening as many quangos as they want in Westminster.
Tequila wrote:
He is a conviction politician - his allowance at the European Parliament means nothing to him.

Spare me your party spin.

a UKIP government, that any other right of centre government would only serve their convictions in as far as it doesnt conflict with the interests of their corporate sponsors.
Tequila wrote:
He's not a multi-millionaire or anything like that I don't think - he comes from an upper middle-class background, but not the elite.


I'm fairly certain he is a millionaire at least, either way, his existance is plains above most of the people whose votes he is trying to win. If his interests was truly with them, he would stick to bread and butter issues like the cost of living, the housing crisis and stagnant wages rather than focusing on the Euro question and scapegoating immigrants.


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thomas81
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23 Apr 2014, 12:14 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
thomas81 wrote:

Ha. Not nearly as hard as he'll be hit when UKIP runs roughshod his union, increases his retirement age,

The thing people should be really worried about is reduction in worker's rights, a.k.a. "Brussels red tape".

The "75% of laws" is a severe overestimate too, which Clegg called Farage out for in their debates. It comes from a statement a German (?) MEP made when he said 75% of EU laws are made by the European Parliament rather than the Commission, which was mistranslated. The true figure depends on your definition, but it is somewhere between 7% and 50%.


I don't think the EU is a sacred cow that needs to be revered or something but I think UKIP is being very disingenuous about how much of our problems are caused by Europe. We ought to be be very wary of any party that opposes EU membership dogmatically. I don't think it is all one way traffic, EU funds do find their way back through Brussels funded redevelopment programs. Small businesses here in Northern Ireland and other parts of the UK have particularly benefited from European grants.

We could easilly balance the books if we call in the taxes that are owed to us by money laundered offshire by big companies and their owners.


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Last edited by thomas81 on 23 Apr 2014, 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

thomas81
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23 Apr 2014, 12:16 pm

Robdemanc wrote:
The worst thing that could happen at the next election is that UKIP and Conservatives form a coalition. I can see it coming.


Agreed. I really hope Labour wins the next election but at this rate i think all Ed Milliband would do is put a parachute on tory reforms rather than reversing them altogether.


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The_Walrus
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23 Apr 2014, 12:36 pm

Robdemanc wrote:
The worst thing that could happen at the next election is that UKIP and Conservatives form a coalition. I can see it coming.

I can't. If the Tories had agreed to AV and the Lib Dems had agreed to boundary changes, then we'd be looking at that or a Conservative majority. As it is, we'll probably see the Lib Dems with either of the other major parties.



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23 Apr 2014, 12:44 pm

Hopper wrote:
Do UKIP plan to draw up laws that stop companies in the UK moving to an overseas, cheaper workforce?


I have asked UKIP if they will do anything about companies offshoring software development and engineering jobs to India and other low wage nations and I still haven't received a satisfactory answer.

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I assume UKIP are pro the free movement of capital. So, why are they against the free movement of labour? I'm hugely confused. :roll:


Populism. There are plenty of middle aged comfortably well off people and unskilled menial workers who don't want eastern Europeans in their neighbourhood - for whatever reasons they see fit - but want to buy cheap imported tat made in low wage countries from superstores.

thomas81 wrote:
I'm fairly certain he is a millionaire at least, either way, his existance is plains above most of the people whose votes he is trying to win. If his interests was truly with them, he would stick to bread and butter issues like the cost of living, the housing crisis and stagnant wages rather than focusing on the Euro question and scapegoating immigrants.


There are some very smart cookies in UKIP who know PR and how to read people's emotions who steer UKIP in a direction to win votes. They know that people who worry about your aforementioned issues either will stay at home (more than 50%) or cannot be separated from Labour so there is no point in trying to win support from them. The UKIP game is to play to win.

thomas81 wrote:
Thatcher, now her student Nigel Farage


I disagree that Nigel Farage is a student of Margaret Thatcher. They are actually very different people if you made efforts to study them and broke away from that one - dimensional left right mindset.



thomas81
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24 Apr 2014, 1:54 pm

ImageHa ha this is the reception their posters recieved in South London

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 81520.html

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24 Apr 2014, 2:17 pm

I'm inclined to say that the vandalism has been done by a tiny handful of Marxists or UAF types. They are the only people who stoop so low as to carry out such acts. What they don't realise is that it only serves to give more publicity to UKIP.