Solipsism?

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From a long thread on intpcentral.com: (these are all mine.)

Solipsism has had me tangled in it's web for a long time. I am never able to rid myself if it and thinking it through (my normal defense for those all encompassing thoughts) always makes it worse.

"While the theoretical egoism (solipsism) can never be proved false... as a serious conviction, it could only be found in a madhouse and as such would not need so much a refutation as a cure." - Arthur Schopenhauer

Now to really cook your brain, try to refute this: Note: I do not believe in god in any shape for form.

God is a solipsist and I am God.

Unless I came to that conclusion myself, allowing my thoughts, or should I say great philosophers, to eventually think up the concept of Solipsism. Of course I would consider it implausible and attempt to discard the idea as it is silly but the idea is still there, completely unfalsifiable.

It can't be true logically, but it still is true.

Also note that using the brain in the vat is a bad way to describe Solipsism, as it's conjures too physical of an image.

Playing devil's advocate, why do I have to go further? Because it's not useful to continue? Define useful.

By the way I think the original question you are trying for instead of "how do you know anything?" is "How do I know any of my knowledge is based on a real world?".

I can answer "how do you know anything?" quite readily by saying something like "Apples are red.". After all, false knowledge is still knowledge. However the question "How do I know any of my knowledge is based on a real world?", in Solipsism is impossible to solve if there are such things as apples or even red for that matter.


How can you prove it's not of yourself? Because it is a foreign idea, or the feeling is something you wouldn't feel?


To refute this I will setup a thought experiment.

Think of three universes. They are all solipsist in nature. Adam owns the first, Beth the second, and Charlie the third. Neither Adam nor Beth know that they control each universe, however Charlie does know he is the master of his. None of the universes have limits, as if you place limits on a solipsist existence it is not solipsist in nature.

Adam's universe is one where everything his intelligence needs just appears before him. His "understanding" of his universe quickly evolves where he basically has, for all intensive purposes has the power of the christian god through technology. Which depending on the personality of Adam could be instantly boring or nearly infinitely fascinating. Think of the Architect's speech in the Matrix II, it would be the equivalent of the Matrix's first version.

Beth's universe is one where everything her intelligence needs must be gained by some manner. Her "understanding" of the universe crawls along. Think of a universe much like the current one. The problem of becoming a "god" is not encountered until certain imposed "rules" are put down about the universe. Which means she cannot become "god" without breaking those self-imposed rules.

Charlie's universe is very much like Adam's but the transformation from "person" to "god" happens instantly and takes place without needing to learn about it. There is also absolutely no rules and again it can be instantly boring or nearly infinitely fascinating.

As you can see it really has nothing to do with taking a course of action or not, or as the old addage goes "Sometimes the journey is better then the destination". Sometimes it's better to struggle through action.

(As a postscript, what is scary/cool is this universe is becoming more like Adam's then Beth's)


I think we are discussing different types of Solipisim. I have been talking about the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphysical_solipsism"]metaphysical type[/url].


People have been known to experience limbs as "separate from themselves", or even in cases where the corpus callosum (the left/right hemisphere connector) has been severed due to severe epilepsy where the (now) separate right hemisphere is experienced as "separate from themselves".

Now in those two cases I stated above there have been things removed from their consciousness, what about things added to their consciousness? Does this mean the schizophrenic that thinks anything in his hand is a part of him is not crazy and is actually experiencing more of Charlie's universe then Beth's?

I don't know, but I bet nobody else does either.

i definitely dont have classical autism but i am becoming solipsist. i have iq of around 150 and i keep thinking of others being philosophical zombies. =/ It is fun thinking I could be only conscious person in the entire cosmos.

Tell me, how do I know that you exist and are not just a figment of my imagination?

I don't really identify with solipsists though I think that in terms of probabilities, there's a way higher chance that we're living in a Matrix-like structure than how religions describe the world.

To be perfectly honest, the strong solipsism amongst other people on the spectrum, aside from LFA folks whose cases I can appreciate, this type of dominant perception "me, me, me" and saying we are just helpless in it irritates me. I mean, come on. We may have a hard time gauging everything but we have to be cognizant that other states of mind and ones who perceive them exist, especially if we are dependent upon people.