I feel like I'm second compared to most other men

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If you just want people to listen to you but don't want any advice post in Haven.

I'm open to advice, I just feel I should have a right to counter with my own opinions and experiences, I don't expect anyone to hold back when speaking to me, so don't. I'm not as easily defensive as I used to be.

Edit:After being walked on my whole life, I adapted the idea that I should always stand up for myself, but I'm losing my faith in that ideology. I'm getting to a point of uncaring, I still believe in helping those in need, but I'm losing my ability to believe that everyone needs help. All in all the way it's affecting my love life is indifferent, which is why I've started to come to the conclusion that I may just be on a lower genetic track mentally. I don't have any form autism, I have bi-polar disorder, but it still affects me just as bad, and bi-polar disorder is a thing both my father and grandfather have/had. It pretty much lead me to the revelation that I'm not really in shape to date anyone, but I still keep on trying because of a compulsive urge most humans have to mate, and not just sex, I really mean making love to a woman. So I'm caught in an endless conundrum of trying to find a balance between my senses of love and lust. Honestly I really don't know what would happen if a woman decided she liked me enough to date me, and sleep with me.

Here's the advice I would have given myself at your age:

1) People sense your desire for their approval so stop it. With a little hard work and time, everything will be good but otherwise it's like someone trying to drink themselves sober.

2) Lift weights. You don't need to become a bodybuilder but everyone responds with more respect to someone fit. No, excessive cardio doesn't count, build some muscle. And don't whine about not being able to, it means you need to eat more.

3) Find an interesting hobby but don't talk constantly about it.

4) Adopt an internal attitude of "I am the king. If someone wants to go along with my awesome self as I do awesome things then great! Else, no worries." Internal attitude only, don't be an arrogant douche.

5) Frequent cheaper haircuts are far better than the occasional stylish one.

6) Practice smiling and winking. Go for walks and simply smile at women with no pressure to talk to them. Don't stare at them and if someone looks at you or smiles back NEVER look down.

7) After a few months, you'll be a bit fitter, with a half-decent hair cut, walk confidently (because of the "I am the King" internalization) and find it easy to smile. The women will treat you like catnip.

Well, for excessive cardio, if you don't have cardio, you aren't in shape, no matter how big you are. Also, some dudes don't get big. I'm 5'11 and was 160 when I worked out regularly. I wasn't big, but looked good, was strong, and very toned. I also don't bother with the haircut thing, I have hair about 6 inches past my shoulders, and prefer it that way. I trim it once in awhile, snip off a couple inches with a pair of scissors, takes 2 minutes and is free. I got enough haircuts in the Army to last me the rest of my life.

I used to be pretty shy, and had a ton of girls hitting on me, but now I talk to them and do OK. I'm busy as hell with college, so that takes priority. Not much time to date at the moment. I gotta phrase things differently as well, since I don't have a job, car, or house. I get GI Bill, so I just say I work for the government if they ask, since I get paid by the government to go to school. Don't need a car since I live right next to campus, and I love to walk.

If the conversation gets materialistic, job, car, money, ect, steer it in another direction. I think being really good looking helps me, though it doesn't make it a sure thing. I am a lot more sociable than I used to be.

The main thing is to be confident and be yourself. That has helped me more than anything.

Franki, you claim to be accepting of yourself but in the same sentence you'll compare your self perception to an Eldritch abomination and assume everyone see's you like that. Self actualization is a common Aspie issue. This line of thought isn't doing you any good at all. To most people, your existsance will barely register.

This^^^ Be yourself. Even if 99% of girls think you're wierd, annoying or even creepy, you'll make yourself more visible to the 1% that would actually be worth bothering with.

So what if you're on a "lower track mentally" in a genetic sense, even if it's true (which I don't believe it is, by the way)

You have to work with what you have.

Many people who are allegedly" within a "lower track" mentally succeed far more than t hose who are supposedly on a "higher track."

Forget the genetics!! !! !! It's a bunch of Horse Hockey to me.

You'll hate me for saying this, but the problem is YOU. Not the other men.

Don't believe me? Go buy yourself a copy of the local paper and take a look at the engagements/wedding announcements page. Paper in hand, count the number of couple couples pictured and then answer the following questions:

How many men could pass for Calvin Klein underwear models?

How many men are CEOs or have a super-duper glamorous or prestigious job titles?

How many men appear to be overweight? Balding? Older than, say, 40 or 50?

How many men are listed as having 'normal' jobs? i.e. mechanic, accountant, lab tech, teacher, truck driver or anything else non-glam.

All those 'normal' men in my paper and your paper and everybody else's local paper? Are engaged or just married. And plenty of them are chubby, twice-divorced, bald, short and/or employed as a busboy/zamboni guy/trucker... and yet have a wife/fiancee.

Whatever you've been doing for NINE years clearly isn't working. So try SOMETHING, anything else. Even if you fail, you'll at least fail in a new and exciting way (that you might learn something from) instead of failing the exact same way.

Apart from which - Franki, you have nothing in common with this girl except you're in the same class. You don't even know her. Why don't you join social groups in which you're actually going to talk to women and get to know them before you start macking on them? Find out if you're compatible, like each other, etc.? Women are people, not mystery vagina creatures. Go get to know some women, and of the ones whose company you enjoy, see if maybe there's a romantic thing there.

Do you have RL friends who are guys?

"How many men are listed as having 'normal' jobs? i.e. mechanic, accountant, lab tech, teacher, truck driver or anything else non-glam. "

those aren't normal jobs not, those are higher paying middle class jobs. min wage jobs like, retail, sales, etc seem to be more normal"

as or car,decent job, and home, idk about his area, but in mine if you don't got them then women see you as worthless.

sly279 - I'm assuming you are gainfully employed grownup, yes?

If you are an ADULT man (not still in a student), then it is 100% reasonable for an ADULT woman to want to date a man who (1) is gainfully employed or actively looking for work if he's been laid off, (2) has a car (unless you live in Manhattan or downtown Chicago or something, where pretty much nobody owns a car) and (3) lives someplace other than his mommy's house. Would YOU date an adult woman who wasn't looking for work and lived with her mom??

However, FrankiDelano who started this thread is 20 and a student -- plenty, heck, the vast majority of full time 20 yo students don't own cars/own homes/are pretty broke/etc (it's the status quo for undergrads) and still manage to go on dates.

As such, FrankieDelano's datelessness is not simply due to being a broke, carless student.

I'm 25. I have seasonal job(everyone else who works with me is the same.) I am actively looking for work and involved with voc rehab. I have a 1994 toyota car. its not the greatest care, but it drives and only has vibration issues for now. I rent a place with my mother and sister. without me they wouldn't be able to live there. so its not like I live off them. I could probably sacrifice stuff and live on my on after a rough time, but doing so would also hurt them, so I feel it is best to remain stable and help them remain stable until which time I might have a gf who after dating for a year or so decide to live together. I do not see how it is much different then if I lived with strangers as roomates. though apparently I am expected to live alone or own a place.

yes I would date any woman who is caring, silly, playful, good personality, loves me, and I find attractive. I don't care if they live at home still, have no job, and walk everywhere(as long as they don't expect me to)

I have problems with people who say they bike everywhere , don't own a car, want their bf to bike too, but still demand he owns a car. why? also you assume that all these women have the same things they demand, half don't. either way I don't view love based of what a person has or does. It's based on who that person is. so if I meet a homeless lady who has a great personality and i found pretty I would date her.

now back to what I stated, they don't say have a job or be looking for one. they say have a decent job. they want and think they are entitled to a finished product(a "real man") but as women here have said no one is entitled to another person. if people just stop caring about money and title, and get to know people they may find a great person who is trying there best, but has had sh***y luck. they might not make 22 an hour, but they make you smile and feel like the best person in the world. maybe you don't go on vacations to Italy, instead spending a week at the coast. maybe instead of a expensive dinner that cost $20 per person you take a romantic walk together and share stuff about yourself. I've meet some really fantastic minwage or poor people. I work with a bunch. I met them while going to auto tech school. I know a guy who has a wife, 4-5 kids makes just above min wage($9here)
he makes $6 an hour plus comission. yet they have fun things, a roof above either heads and food. they are mostly happy.

i despise this society and its if you want to be loved and be happy you need to make tons of money have a nice car, and fancy house. pleanty of people have families without those things.
do you go go to college now?

lots of the people who went to my college had cars, apartments, and money to spend on fun things. most college students are really the poor eating top romin every day, types. are there some yeah, but thers also lots of the I have a brand new bmw, and i throw away brand new 200 dollar nikes. heck they throw away computers, i pods, cameras, etc. I worked in the dorms cleaning. you would be ammazed what college students will just throw away cause they can afford more.

he might have othe problems yes, but I don't think that these can't be some of them.

People worry about status too much I agree. And yes, 3/4 of women I met or ran into that required a guy to have: a car, decent job, own place barely had these themselves. Most women have a car, but when they are a manager a McDonalds it's all good. But if a guy is that, it's a no go. If a convo starts as materialistic I get turned off. You never know someone's story. What's wrong with a man staying to help his parents out? That s**t ain't easy. Not everyone was "given" a car at 16. I'm still waiting for mine. I'd rather just have a woman that is down to reality and is willing to know me and not my wallet and far, far future.

I often let them know that I am not a bum and I can take care of myself. Why do you need to know my financial status? We are not going to be living together anytime soon. So get to know me instead. The city I am in. If you don't have a car you have a stigma on you. When I date a woman I am looking to know "her". Not her financial stability because that is none of my business. As long as she isn't a leech and wants something out of her life I am fine.

But as I told my younger cousins; guys are held more responsible for things they don't have and things they do. And the rules of masculinity forever changes.

There are women out there who do not care much for that stuff. They do exist.