CDC Cover-up?
28 Aug 2014, 8:56 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
the-comander wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
The simple fact of the matter is, just because someone receives a vaccination then becomes autistic hardly means there is a cause and effect here. This whistleblower could just as well make a connection between children eating dinner then later developing into puberty.
agreed.
Thank you.
your welcome.
29 Aug 2014, 1:47 am
Dillogic wrote:
That's actually wrong.
Anything that can cause damage to a developing brain, which seizures and an immune reaction are a part of, has the ability to cause autism.
It might not, but it can.
Anything that can cause damage to a developing brain, which seizures and an immune reaction are a part of, has the ability to cause autism.
It might not, but it can.
No... It can cause brain damage. Brain damage is not Autism. Research is showing that autism caused by differently formed nerve trunks and "excess" white matter (neurons) in the brain... It is not a form of brain damage. Period. End of story.
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29 Aug 2014, 8:52 am
beneficii wrote:
Quote:
If there is a conspiracy theory unfolding here, it appears to me, at least, to be those at the CDC and elsewhere who are repeatedly quashing attempts to discover the truth.
You're implicating the health systems of several countries....
No, just that of the CDC, though researchers from other nations http://www.naturalnews.com/046644_MMR_v ... fraud.html have been discovered to have helped it "massage" evidence, too.
Quote:
...Dr. Poul Thorsen, a Danish scientist who was indicted for stealing millions of dollars from the CDC and using it to cover up vaccine dangers. Thorsen, as you may recall, was heavily involved in producing a stream of fraudulent studies that supposedly 'disproved' the now-evident link between vaccines and autism. The CDC has also continually cited Thorsen's studies as 'evidence' that vaccines are safe, declaring the debate to be over in light of their findings.
But, one by one, these and various other studies, including a prominent one published in the journal Pediatrics, are being called into question due to fraud and author conflicts of interest. And to make matters worse, the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) has yet to even follow through with its indictment of Thorsen, who continues to produce phony studies from his cozy position at Sygehus Lillebaelt Hospital in Kolding, Denmark....
But, one by one, these and various other studies, including a prominent one published in the journal Pediatrics, are being called into question due to fraud and author conflicts of interest. And to make matters worse, the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) has yet to even follow through with its indictment of Thorsen, who continues to produce phony studies from his cozy position at Sygehus Lillebaelt Hospital in Kolding, Denmark....
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Diagnosed in 2015 with ASD Level 1 by the University of Utah Health Care Autism Spectrum Disorder Clinic using the ADOS-2 Module 4 assessment instrument [11/30] -- Screened in 2014 with ASD by using the University of Cambridge Autism Research Centre AQ (Adult) [43/50]; EQ-60 for adults [11/80]; FQ [43/135]; SQ (Adult) [130/150] self-reported screening inventories -- Assessed since 1978 with an estimated IQ [≈145] by several clinicians -- Contact on WrongPlanet.net by private message (PM)
29 Aug 2014, 9:14 am
I hate to engage in ad hominem attacks, but naturalnews is not a reliable source of information. They claim that a) pot cures cancer and b) a gluten free, probiotic diet will cure diabetes and autism.
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29 Aug 2014, 9:16 am
Feralucce wrote:
I hate to engage in ad hominem attacks, but naturalnews is not a reliable source of information. They claim that a) pot cures cancer and b) a gluten free, probiotic diet will cure diabetes and autism.
I agree completely about the news source, but the facts of the source's report about Poul Thorsen bear out in many other reports. Thus, the basic facts, claims and opinions are valid in this case.
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Diagnosed in 2015 with ASD Level 1 by the University of Utah Health Care Autism Spectrum Disorder Clinic using the ADOS-2 Module 4 assessment instrument [11/30] -- Screened in 2014 with ASD by using the University of Cambridge Autism Research Centre AQ (Adult) [43/50]; EQ-60 for adults [11/80]; FQ [43/135]; SQ (Adult) [130/150] self-reported screening inventories -- Assessed since 1978 with an estimated IQ [≈145] by several clinicians -- Contact on WrongPlanet.net by private message (PM)
29 Aug 2014, 9:56 am
the problem is that their citations (the entire site) is cyclical. THey link to one of 5 sites, none of which do anything but cite the other 5. No outside sources... and after research, I have found that these sites are all owned by the same company...
BUT...
Let's look at this...
1) I was not vaccinated until after my diagnosis... I have undergone HDFT scans that confirm the different nerve trunks in my brain that is one of the root causes.
2) the correlation is only circumstantial. Autism can (with several techniques) be diagnosed at birth. The fact that it is caught at ages 3-4 is only because that is the biggest formative time in the human brain and it manifests more profoundly... and the MMR vaccine just happens to be administered soon before.
3) Autism first diagnosed in 1911... themiserol (the suspect compound) was invented in 1927... it cannot cause something before it exists.
4) Themiserol was removed from vaccines (in spite of extensive studies showing that it was harmless) in 1999. If it was the cause, as stated, then the increase in autism cases cannot be indicative, as it is no longer present...
I wrote about it, in detail, HERE
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29 Aug 2014, 10:01 am
Feralucce wrote:
No... It can cause brain damage. Brain damage is not Autism. Research is showing that autism caused by differently formed nerve trunks and "excess" white matter (neurons) in the brain... It is not a form of brain damage. Period. End of story.
From eMedicine:
Quote:
Although autism is the result of a neurologic abnormality, the cause of these problems with the nervous system is unknown in most cases. Research findings indicate a strong genetic component. Most likely, environmental, immunologic, and metabolic factors also influence the development of the disorder.
There is probably no single gene or genetic defect that is responsible for autism. Researchers suspect that there are a number of different genes that, when combined together, increase the risk of getting autism. In families with one child with autism, the risk of having another child with autism is low. The concordance of autism in monozygotic twins is significant. A number of studies have found that first-degree relatives of children with autism also have an increased risk of autism spectrum disorders.
In some children, autism is linked to an underlying medical condition. Examples include metabolic disorders (untreated phenylketonuria [PKU]), congenital infections (rubella, cytomegalovirus [CMV], toxoplasmosis), genetic disorders (fragile X syndrome, tuberous sclerosis), developmental brain abnormalities (microcephaly, macrocephaly, cerebral dysgenesis), and neurologic disorders acquired after birth (lead encephalopathy, bacterial meningitis). These medical disorders alone do not cause autism as most children with these conditions do not have autism.
Environmental factors and exposures may interact with genetic factors to cause an increased risk of autism in some families.
There is probably no single gene or genetic defect that is responsible for autism. Researchers suspect that there are a number of different genes that, when combined together, increase the risk of getting autism. In families with one child with autism, the risk of having another child with autism is low. The concordance of autism in monozygotic twins is significant. A number of studies have found that first-degree relatives of children with autism also have an increased risk of autism spectrum disorders.
In some children, autism is linked to an underlying medical condition. Examples include metabolic disorders (untreated phenylketonuria [PKU]), congenital infections (rubella, cytomegalovirus [CMV], toxoplasmosis), genetic disorders (fragile X syndrome, tuberous sclerosis), developmental brain abnormalities (microcephaly, macrocephaly, cerebral dysgenesis), and neurologic disorders acquired after birth (lead encephalopathy, bacterial meningitis). These medical disorders alone do not cause autism as most children with these conditions do not have autism.
Environmental factors and exposures may interact with genetic factors to cause an increased risk of autism in some families.
Lots and lots of causes, and the biggest thing in common is something that can cause brain abnormalities (this can be immune, pathological and/or environmental) + a genetic component.
29 Aug 2014, 12:33 pm
AspieUtah,
You fail to actually engage with me in debate, addressing my points, instead taking us on a course that has us running in circles. I am done speaking with you directly.
Have fun with your conspiracy theories.
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Last edited by beneficii on 29 Aug 2014, 3:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
29 Aug 2014, 12:52 pm
Dillogic wrote:
Feralucce wrote:
No... It can cause brain damage. Brain damage is not Autism. Research is showing that autism caused by differently formed nerve trunks and "excess" white matter (neurons) in the brain... It is not a form of brain damage. Period. End of story.
From eMedicine:
Quote:
Although autism is the result of a neurologic abnormality, the cause of these problems with the nervous system is unknown in most cases. Research findings indicate a strong genetic component. Most likely, environmental, immunologic, and metabolic factors also influence the development of the disorder.
There is probably no single gene or genetic defect that is responsible for autism. Researchers suspect that there are a number of different genes that, when combined together, increase the risk of getting autism. In families with one child with autism, the risk of having another child with autism is low. The concordance of autism in monozygotic twins is significant. A number of studies have found that first-degree relatives of children with autism also have an increased risk of autism spectrum disorders.
In some children, autism is linked to an underlying medical condition. Examples include metabolic disorders (untreated phenylketonuria [PKU]), congenital infections (rubella, cytomegalovirus [CMV], toxoplasmosis), genetic disorders (fragile X syndrome, tuberous sclerosis), developmental brain abnormalities (microcephaly, macrocephaly, cerebral dysgenesis), and neurologic disorders acquired after birth (lead encephalopathy, bacterial meningitis). These medical disorders alone do not cause autism as most children with these conditions do not have autism.
Environmental factors and exposures may interact with genetic factors to cause an increased risk of autism in some families.
There is probably no single gene or genetic defect that is responsible for autism. Researchers suspect that there are a number of different genes that, when combined together, increase the risk of getting autism. In families with one child with autism, the risk of having another child with autism is low. The concordance of autism in monozygotic twins is significant. A number of studies have found that first-degree relatives of children with autism also have an increased risk of autism spectrum disorders.
In some children, autism is linked to an underlying medical condition. Examples include metabolic disorders (untreated phenylketonuria [PKU]), congenital infections (rubella, cytomegalovirus [CMV], toxoplasmosis), genetic disorders (fragile X syndrome, tuberous sclerosis), developmental brain abnormalities (microcephaly, macrocephaly, cerebral dysgenesis), and neurologic disorders acquired after birth (lead encephalopathy, bacterial meningitis). These medical disorders alone do not cause autism as most children with these conditions do not have autism.
Environmental factors and exposures may interact with genetic factors to cause an increased risk of autism in some families.
Lots and lots of causes, and the biggest thing in common is something that can cause brain abnormalities (this can be immune, pathological and/or environmental) + a genetic component.
And recent research has shown that the the earmarks of autism (divergent nerve trunks and "excessive" synapses in the brain) are present at birth and in utero. Autism, with the scanning technologies available, can be diagnosed at birth, pre-vaccine.
I will state this again... The first DOCUMENTED cases of autism predate thermiserol by 16 years. Without a time machine, it cannot cause autism.
I will also state this again... the report that EVERYONE cites stated that themiserol was the cause of the upswing autism. It cited every vaccine that had the compound in it. Since 1999, themiserol has been absent in those vaccines, yet autism is on the rise... and the rise is consistent amongst vaccinated and unvaccinated alike... AT THE SAME RATES.
The likely cause of the upswing is misdiagnoses and pressure from parents causing psychiatric professionals to give a harmless diagnosis.
With the advent of the new scanning technologies, I am willing to bet that the incidents of autism would decrease if every child diagnosed was scanned with High Definition Fiber Tracking and ultrasound to look for the different nerve trunk structures and "excess" synapses, respectively...
I also discuss this HERE
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29 Aug 2014, 3:18 pm
I will not speak to AspieUtah directly, only in 3rd person as he does not deserve to be addressed directly, only to say that he follows some non sequiturs. He says that a scientist being quoted out of context to make it look like he was "confessing" and another scientist being charged with embezzlement means that ALL researchers are liars and that all research showing no link between autism and MMR vaccine should be completely and totally disregarded and that we must discontinue MMR vaccine immediately. That is ridiculous and does not follow at all!
Not only that, but we have already seen the deleterious effects of this scaremongering regarding MMR vaccine, according to the NEJM:
Quote:
The H1N1 influenza pandemic of 2009 and 2010 revealed a strong public fear of vaccination, stoked by antivaccinationists. In the United States, 70 million doses of vaccine were wasted, although there was no evidence of harm from vaccination. Meanwhile, even though more than a dozen studies have demonstrated an absence of harm from MMR vaccination, Wakefield and his supporters continue to steer the public away from the vaccine. As a result, a generation of parents and their children have grown up afraid of vaccines, and the resulting outbreaks of measles and mumps have damaged and destroyed young lives. The reemergence of other previously controlled diseases has led to hospitalizations, missed days of school and work, medical complications, societal disruptions, and deaths. The worst pertussis outbreaks in the past 50 years are now occurring in California, where 10 deaths have already been reported among infants and young children.
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp1010594
Society is being played by conspiracy theorists who are trying to scare people away from vaccination in service to their own ideologies. They are trying to make their ideology trump science, just like the creationists and climate change denialists. Because of these deleterious effects, they have blood on their hands.
Are we going to sit back and allow ourselves to be ravaged again by diseases that should have already been eradicated, in service to twisted ideology? I say not!
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29 Aug 2014, 3:35 pm
More from the NEJM (emphasis added):
Quote:
The diseases that we now seek to prevent with vaccination pose far less risk to antivaccinationists than smallpox did through the early 1900s. Unfortunately, this means that they can continue to disseminate false science without much personal risk, while putting children, the elderly, and the frail in harm's way. We can propose no Oslerian challenge to demonstrate our point but have instead a story of science and contrasting worldviews: on the one hand, a long history of stunning triumphs, such as the eradication of smallpox and control of many epidemic diseases that had previously maimed and killed millions of people; on the other hand, the reality that none of the antivaccinationists' claims of widespread injury from vaccines have withstood the tests of time and science. We believe that antivaccinationists have done significant harm to the public health. Ultimately, society must recognize that science is not a democracy in which the side with the most votes or the loudest voices gets to decide what is right.
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp1010594
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29 Aug 2014, 3:49 pm
If you notice, all the anti-vaxxers have got are insinuations. Oh, this scientist embezzled money, so let's say that all research that agrees with his research is lying. Oh, this scientist said some things that when you clip them and piece them together can make him look a lot worse than he really is.
If you notice, they've lost the debate in the scientific and medical communities. The people in those communities are too smart to buy the snake oil they've been selling. That is why anti-vaxxers have gone to the public and are given over to insinuating some grand conspiracy to commit fraud on a global scale: They've got nothing else!
The public needs to be aware of this issue and needs to learn that often these attempts at insinuation are signs that they lost in the scientific community and are trying to dupe the public. We as a people need to stop letting ourselves get duped like this. It is causing great damage, and not just in the field of vaccinations.
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"You have a responsibility to consider all sides of a problem and a responsibility to make a judgment and a responsibility to care for all involved." --Ian Danskin
29 Aug 2014, 5:50 pm
Feralucce wrote:
the problem is that their citations (the entire site) is cyclical. THey link to one of 5 sites, none of which do anything but cite the other 5. No outside sources... and after research, I have found that these sites are all owned by the same company...
I didn't refer to the news report's citations. I refered to its facts as reported elsewhere. For example, Wikipedia.org describes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poul_Thorsen Poul Thorsen as:
Quote:
...a Danish researcher, who has been accused of financial fraud, and who co-authored some of the most frequently cited studies concluding that there is no link between thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism, nor between the MMR vaccine and autism. These studies were published in the New England Journal of Medicine and Pediatrics. His alleged fraud involved the use of approximately $2,000,000 in grant money obtained while he was working at the Centers for Disease Control to purchase a house and two cars, among other things. According to the CDC inspector general's office he submitted invoices to Aarhus University and Sahlgrenska University Hospital to make it appear as though the CDC was requesting money from them when in fact the money they gave to these institutions went into a bank account under his own control. Thorsen was indicted in April 2011 on 13 counts of wire fraud and 9 counts of money laundering. He was the subject of an article by Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. who argued that the validity of studies involving Thorsen are now in question.
As is the expectation of Wikipedia.org, there are citations of references used in its article including one from the Atlanta Business Chronicle, a second from the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Office of Inspector General, and a third from the TheHuffingtonPost.com; all of which generally confirm each other and the facts contained within the NaturalNews.com report.
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Diagnosed in 2015 with ASD Level 1 by the University of Utah Health Care Autism Spectrum Disorder Clinic using the ADOS-2 Module 4 assessment instrument [11/30] -- Screened in 2014 with ASD by using the University of Cambridge Autism Research Centre AQ (Adult) [43/50]; EQ-60 for adults [11/80]; FQ [43/135]; SQ (Adult) [130/150] self-reported screening inventories -- Assessed since 1978 with an estimated IQ [≈145] by several clinicians -- Contact on WrongPlanet.net by private message (PM)
29 Aug 2014, 10:13 pm
That doesn't make his research or research that agrees with his bunk--he was one of like, what, 5 co-authors on each study he took part? In addition, there were numerous other studies that he didn't take part that all say the same thing.
But they've taken to quoting Wikipedia. Well, let's look at other parts (emphases added):
Quote:
In the UK, the MMR vaccine was the subject of controversy after publication of a 1998 paper by Andrew Wakefield et al. reporting a study of twelve children who had bowel symptoms along with autism or other disorders, including cases where onset was believed by the parents to be soon after administration of MMR vaccine.[33] In 2010, Wakefield's research was found by the General Medical Council to have been "dishonest",[34] and The Lancet fully retracted the original paper.[35] The research was declared fraudulent in 2011 by the British Medical Journal.[36] Several subsequent peer-reviewed studies have failed to show any association between the vaccine and autism.[37]
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention,[38] the Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of Sciences,[39] the UK National Health Service[40] and the Cochrane Library review[17] have all concluded that there is no evidence of a link between the MMR vaccine and autism.
Administering the vaccines in three separate doses does not reduce the chance of adverse effects, and it increases the opportunity for infection by the two diseases not immunized against first.[37][41] Health experts have criticized media reporting of the MMR-autism controversy for triggering a decline in vaccination rates.[42] Before publication of Wakefield's findings, the inoculation rate for MMR in the UK was 92%; after publication, the rate dropped to below 80%. In 1998, there were 56 measles cases in the UK; by 2008, there were 1348 cases, with 2 confirmed deaths.[43]
In Japan, the MMR vaccination has been discontinued, with single vaccines being used for each disease. Rates of autism diagnosis have continued to increase, showing no correlation with the change.[44]
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention,[38] the Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of Sciences,[39] the UK National Health Service[40] and the Cochrane Library review[17] have all concluded that there is no evidence of a link between the MMR vaccine and autism.
Administering the vaccines in three separate doses does not reduce the chance of adverse effects, and it increases the opportunity for infection by the two diseases not immunized against first.[37][41] Health experts have criticized media reporting of the MMR-autism controversy for triggering a decline in vaccination rates.[42] Before publication of Wakefield's findings, the inoculation rate for MMR in the UK was 92%; after publication, the rate dropped to below 80%. In 1998, there were 56 measles cases in the UK; by 2008, there were 1348 cases, with 2 confirmed deaths.[43]
In Japan, the MMR vaccination has been discontinued, with single vaccines being used for each disease. Rates of autism diagnosis have continued to increase, showing no correlation with the change.[44]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMR_vaccine#Autism_claims
This cites a whole bunch of research, including that Cochrane Library review that looked at dozens of studies and millions of children and found that a link between autism and MMR vaccine was unlikely.
The anti-vaxxers' case again lies in insinuation. One researcher embezzled, so let's throw all the research out, they say. Thompson came to me for a "confession," claims someone else, so lets throw it all out the window. This speaks to a group of people that have lost in the scientific and medical community and know it, and are trying instead to dupe the public.
All in the meantime with this artificial scare of, Your kid's going to develop autism! (and why should that be so scary is a topic for another discussion), previously eradicated diseases have been making a comeback, leading to deaths and disfigurations.
Wakefield is a fraud and has blood on his hands.
_________________
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Last edited by beneficii on 29 Aug 2014, 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
29 Aug 2014, 10:26 pm
AspieUtah:
You said
Quote:
No, just that of the CDC, though researchers from other nations http://www.naturalnews.com/046644_MMR_v ... fraud.html have been discovered to have helped it "massage" evidence, too.
Then you said:
Quote:
I agree completely about the news source, but the facts of the source's report about Poul Thorsen bear out in many other reports. Thus, the basic facts, claims and opinions are valid in this case.
I was addressing the source (naturalnews)... and as such - you did, in fact talk about the sources, citations.
You did not provide citations or even mention another site. It is here, in black and white.
The inconsistency of your words is troubling. I will not be addressing you in this thread again.
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30 Aug 2014, 1:20 pm
My wife and I want to see what happens with our 8 month old son. I have undiagnosed Asperger because of what I believe was an MMR shot when I was 1 year old. I grew up with Hyperactivity, prolonged uncontrolled crying, High-school diagnosed Learning Disability,Social-Interactive problems, Loner behavior, gullibility and people taking advantage of me via misreading social cues. etc.
We have refused the MMR Vax and the Muiti-Combination Vaccines. Plus, only breast milk has been given (No Formula). So Far? NORMAL!! But of course, We'll see. So...as far as it being genetically "Passed Down" We'll see as well.
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