Consequences in "why to ask first"

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Dox47
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29 Aug 2014, 3:42 am

tarantella64 wrote:
You lifted her argument without realizing it. It's an old tired thing, but hers.


Oh, so in that case, it should be no problem for you to refute then, right?


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Nights_Like_These
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29 Aug 2014, 3:49 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superiority_complex


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The_Face_of_Boo
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29 Aug 2014, 4:20 am

tarantella64 wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
See tarantella, yellowtamarin for example, isn't of the "old generation"; she's young (and so a good number of pro-dont-ask female users after checking again).

And 90% of her dates did the kiss non-verbally, and believe me she dates a lot, that means, at least where she lives (A western country) - is the social 'norm' there.


Boo, you can trot out as many examples as you like. The culture is changing; Max is one example. People ignore at their own peril. I've been quite surprised in the last few years at how the power dynamics are changing, how unexpectedly seriously these things are being taken, and how consequential they are. Things move fast.


Good.



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29 Aug 2014, 8:56 am

Dox47 wrote:
http://reason.com/archives/2014/08/27/it-was-a-wild-and-crazy-summer-of-crimin


Wow! Wouldn?t it be easier just to ban all sex on college campuses and require them to be sex-segregated?


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Dillogic
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29 Aug 2014, 9:31 am

Asking for things works when you aren't able to read body language.

Supposedly, "normal" people can tell you stuff by how they look at you and hold their body, and other "normal" people can read this as if it was spoken aloud. Kinda magical to me, but it supposedly is how "normal" people roll.

"Can I kiss you", doesn't seem like a problem or mood darkener to me.

If someone has a problem with it (asking), they're probably fickle about a lot of things (so not just that will turn them off. Well, that's my experience with people that make a big deal of the small things).



tarantella64
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29 Aug 2014, 11:39 am

Spiderpig wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
http://reason.com/archives/2014/08/27/it-was-a-wild-and-crazy-summer-of-crimin


Wow! Wouldn?t it be easier just to ban all sex on college campuses and require them to be sex-segregated?


Not if you wanted to retain equal educational and career opportunities for women. Which is why California's just done what it's done.



The_Face_of_Boo
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29 Aug 2014, 11:46 am

Dillogic wrote:
Asking for things works when you aren't able to read body language.

Supposedly, "normal" people can tell you stuff by how they look at you and hold their body, and other "normal" people can read this as if it was spoken aloud. Kinda magical to me, but it supposedly is how "normal" people roll.

"Can I kiss you", doesn't seem like a problem or mood darkener to me.

If someone has a problem with it (asking), they're probably fickle about a lot of things (so not just that will turn them off. Well, that's my experience with people that make a big deal of the small things).



But if turns out the majority of women (and this what I am seeing so far till proven otherwise by by an official survey) see it as a mood killer and turn off; then what the guys here should do? Should they relying on dating a tiny fraction of the pool? Doesn't that mean that a lot of them would remain chronically single?



tarantella64
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29 Aug 2014, 11:47 am

Y'all might notice that this chronic "hide women so they don't get raped" idea doesn't actually work. What it does do is make women more powerless. In countries where women are most hidden-away, they're also most often raped, beaten, killed.

It's the wrong direction for a solution. Willingness to take use and victimization of women seriously, and punish it forcefully...yep, that does seem to work. My guess is that the campus environment's about to get a whole lot friendlier to women at those Cal schools. I don't know too many young men want to spend $35K on a couple years of college only to grope some gal who didn't invite it and find himself thrown out of school, possibly facing criminal charges.



The_Face_of_Boo
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29 Aug 2014, 11:48 am

tarantella64 wrote:
Spiderpig wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
http://reason.com/archives/2014/08/27/it-was-a-wild-and-crazy-summer-of-crimin


Wow! Wouldn?t it be easier just to ban all sex on college campuses and require them to be sex-segregated?


Not if you wanted to retain equal educational and career opportunities for women. Which is why California's just done what it's done.



I didn't understand what this has to do with his sarcasm, explain.



tarantella64
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29 Aug 2014, 11:48 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Dillogic wrote:
Asking for things works when you aren't able to read body language.

Supposedly, "normal" people can tell you stuff by how they look at you and hold their body, and other "normal" people can read this as if it was spoken aloud. Kinda magical to me, but it supposedly is how "normal" people roll.

"Can I kiss you", doesn't seem like a problem or mood darkener to me.

If someone has a problem with it (asking), they're probably fickle about a lot of things (so not just that will turn them off. Well, that's my experience with people that make a big deal of the small things).



But if turns out the majority of women (and this what I am seeing so far till proven otherwise by by an official survey) see it as a mood killer and turn off; then what the guys here should do? Should they relying on dating a tiny fraction of the pool? Doesn't that mean that a lot of them would remain chronically single?


I solved your problem up above, Boo. Also notice please that you're happy to trample on the rights of women not to be molested in order to save guys from being chronically single.



The_Face_of_Boo
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29 Aug 2014, 11:51 am

tarantella64 wrote:
Y'all might notice that this chronic "hide women so they don't get raped" idea doesn't actually work. What it does do is make women more powerless. In countries where women are most hidden-away, they're also most often raped, beaten, killed.

It's the wrong direction for a solution. Willingness to take use and victimization of women seriously, and punish it forcefully...yep, that does seem to work. My guess is that the campus environment's about to get a whole lot friendlier to women at those Cal schools. I don't know too many young men want to spend $35K on a couple years of college only to grope some gal who didn't invite it and find himself thrown out of school, possibly facing criminal charges.


What's your answer to the Shirt question asked by Tally?



Dillogic
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29 Aug 2014, 11:57 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Doesn't that mean that a lot of them would remain chronically single?


Better to be single than with someone that makes a big deal over something so simple as asking for permission. Well, that's me.



Dillogic
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29 Aug 2014, 12:00 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
What's your answer to the Shirt question asked by Tally?


Not her, but my answer is:

Let chicks carry pistols. She can walk whatever damn hood she wants then.

No one rapes a .38.



Eureka13
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29 Aug 2014, 12:05 pm

I've said it before: there's a big difference between a stuttering, hand-wringing, apologetic "uuuh, can I kiss you?" and a straightforward: "I'd really like to kiss you right now."

I can see where the former might be a so-called "mood-killer," not because of the asking but because of the delivery. The latter scenario, however, is HAWT. I've kissed more than a few guys I might not have otherwise thought I was interested in because of that line right there.

Also, once again in this never-ending debate, we're not talking about a couple in a relationship, we're talking about two people who are relative strangers to one another. It is presumptive to kiss (or grope) anyone, male or female, who you do not know well enough to have already established some sort of physical relationship.

The first time with any new-to-you person, you should always ask, or at least verbally state your intention so that the other person has a chance to verbally accept or decline. Period.



aspiemike
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29 Aug 2014, 12:33 pm

Eureka seems to indicate: asking could kill the mood. Just make a direct statement of what you would like in the right romantic moment. Not trying to put words in mouth. Just what I have interpreted.

I can recall a more positive response when I made a direct statement myself rather than asking.


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TallyMan
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29 Aug 2014, 12:52 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
tarantella64 wrote:
Y'all might notice that this chronic "hide women so they don't get raped" idea doesn't actually work. What it does do is make women more powerless. In countries where women are most hidden-away, they're also most often raped, beaten, killed.

It's the wrong direction for a solution. Willingness to take use and victimization of women seriously, and punish it forcefully...yep, that does seem to work. My guess is that the campus environment's about to get a whole lot friendlier to women at those Cal schools. I don't know too many young men want to spend $35K on a couple years of college only to grope some gal who didn't invite it and find himself thrown out of school, possibly facing criminal charges.


What's your answer to the Shirt question asked by Tally?


I noticed tarantella avoided it and also that starvingartist responded but evaded it.


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