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Lots of California parents refusing to vax kids

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riley
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14 Sep 2014, 11:23 am

WelcomeToHolland wrote:
riley wrote:
How not recent were is vaccines? Were they over two months for example? Did the other child suffer from any fevers, illnesses, allergies, diseases that coincided with his regression?

Last one was at 18 months. So 2 years prior. He was not unusually unhealthy that I recall.

riley wrote:
Your experiences may differ from that of other parents. I do not think they just "want something to blame" if they witness something definitive for themselves within such a short amount of time after receiving vaccination. "Wishful thinking" isn't going to help their kids get better and they would probably know that. For spontaneous regression from a healthy child to a sick child there would have to be some sort of catalyst to trigger it.. and for there to be a trigger there would have to be something to be triggered that is not present in "normal" children. The fraudulent study (Wakefield) is also fairly recent as parents have been claiming there have been issues for over twenty years.


I know my experiences will vary from others, however I am in the same boat with a child who had a reaction shortly after receiving MMR. At the time (2003), I felt horrified and thought it was the vaccines too. It's not "definitive" though; correlation does not prove causation. My son was a very healthy boy, and now he is severely epileptic (still otherwise healthy). As I said, he does not have a "mild" case of autism either- he will need life-long care, and that is sad for me as his mother still. That's why I feel like my experience is valid enough to mention here.

Likewise. .correlation does not prove mere coincidence.
You opinion is extremely valid.. however it doesn't invalidate the experiences of others.

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It's natural to want to know why something happened. That's what all the different stories about gods were supposed to do- explain things that we didn't understand. Well, I think when you watch your child lose skills in such a dramatic way, it's natural to want to know what happened. It's not about "finding something to blame"- it's just about knowing what caused this (without assigned blame necessarily). I'm sure there are some parents who don't care, but my guess is they are the minority.

Equating parents believing their child is vaccine injured to superstitions? If you genuinely believe they are all suffering from mass delusions we have already reached an impasse.



WelcomeToHolland
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14 Sep 2014, 12:07 pm

riley wrote:
Equating parents believing their child is vaccine injured to superstitions? If you genuinely believe they are all suffering from mass delusions we have already reached an impasse.


Yikes...who said they were suffering from delusions? I didn't say that and I don't think that. :?

But anyway, that's beside the point. The point is, it's not unusual to want to know why something happened, and it's also not unusual that if you are looking for a reason for something, to associate two events which appear to you with your current knowledge, to be related. Everyone does that. But just because you find an association (a valid association no less) doesn't mean that one causes the other. I used the belief in gods as an example because it's highly prevalent, and I thought everyone could agree that there is at least one god that isn't real, showing that the association can falsely be made, despite having valid evidence at the time (obviously it did not serve its purpose and was the wrong example to use in hindsight...).


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PlainsAspie
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14 Sep 2014, 12:32 pm

EsotericResearch wrote:
Seriously, my friend spends a fortune on special diets, ABA and chelation when he found out. He was devastated. You build a life, and you want your kid to be able to share in that life including all the social stuff. And I'm autie / full seclusion sped growing up. Not saying that having autism is bad, but let's face it, it is a huge, massive disadvantage.


Here's a glaring inconsistency many anti-vaxxers show. They do not trust that vaccines are safe and effective, yet they trust the safety of chelation and other treatments despite what research shows.



riley
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14 Sep 2014, 7:07 pm

WelcomeToHolland wrote:
riley wrote:
Equating parents believing their child is vaccine injured to superstitions? If you genuinely believe they are all suffering from mass delusions we have already reached an impasse.


Yikes...who said they were suffering from delusions? I didn't say that and I don't think that. :?


Sorry but you already said that they all just want something to blame rather than having actual reason. So either you believe they are all suffering from a mass delusion or you don't.

You say you didn't say that yet you re-iterate that they are just wanting something to blame.. and again start carrying on about belief gods as if they are blindly believing something without evidence they claim they have witnessed for themselves.



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14 Sep 2014, 8:12 pm

riley wrote:
Sorry but you already said that they all just want something to blame rather than having actual reason. So either you believe they are all suffering from a mass delusion or you don't.

You say you didn't say that yet you re-iterate that they are just wanting something to blame.. and again start carrying on about belief gods as if they are blindly believing something without evidence they claim they have witnessed for themselves.


Whaaaat? I am a total loss for what to say because that's actually not what I said, or even what I meant, but I feel like I should say something because what I wrote is being misrepresented so much...

I guess the bottom line for me is that just because I disagree with someone doesn't mean they're delusional. I never said that they are delusional about their child's regression- in fact I clearly stated before that not only do I believe in regressive autism, my own child regressed. So they do have evidence- I just happen to think they're drawing the wrong conclusion. That's not the same (or even close to the same) as being delusional. I also never said people who believe in a god/gods are delusional, necessarily- this seems to be where you drew conclusion from (?).


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riley
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14 Sep 2014, 9:06 pm

WelcomeToHolland wrote:
Whaaaat? I am a total loss for what to say because that's actually not what I said, or even what I meant, but I feel like I should say something because what I wrote is being misrepresented so much...

Twice you compared parents saying they believe their children are vaccine damaged to wanting to believe in gods so there is something to blame.

If someone is insistent on believing something that isn't real then they're delusional.

You have walked one path, they have walked their own. I'm not going to judge your experiences as being any more valid than theirs and vice verser. I have also been researching mitochondrial dysfunction, autism and auto immune problems and there does seem to be actual scientific evidence to suggest there are some children predisposed to having reactions.