An Independent Scotland ?

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19 Sep 2014, 8:36 am

Thank goodness.

The best thing to come out of this is the absolutely clear need to give proper local authority to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Within England, a less London-centric approach would also be wise. It's possible that a much stronger and better United Kingdom can emerge from this.

I hope that people in the UK learn from the mistakes in America that have empowered business groups at the expense of citizens. That's the one caution about this kind of federal model, something the Europeans seem not to have given much thought to in Brussels.

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19 Sep 2014, 11:08 am

INFOWARS.COM: "?Yes? Supporters Claim Videos Show Scottish Referendum Was Rigged" (September 19, 2014)
http://www.infowars.com/yes-supporters- ... was-rigged

Infowars.com wrote:

Scotland voted to stay in the United Kingdom after voters rejected independence by a margin of 55% to 45%. The pro-independence campaign claimed 1,617,989 votes but was defeated by the ?Better Together? campaign which obtained 2,001,926 votes. The turnout was 84.5%.

However, almost as soon as the vote count began last night, some were pointing to alleged examples of tampering.

In the first example, bundles of referendum papers are seen on top of a table designated for ?No? votes and yet when zoomed in, the top paper on two of the bundles clearly shows an X marked in the box for ?Yes?.

The second clip shows a man at a desk in a polling station writing on a piece of paper. Some claim this proves he is filling in referendum cards, although he could just as easily be tallying up votes.

The third example is a little harder to explain. It shows a woman at a polling station counting votes. She takes one paper from the ?No? pile and places it in the ?Yes? pile before taking at least two cards from the ?Yes? pile and placing them in the ?No? pile.

Police in Glasgow are also investigating at least ten cases of vote fraud where people turned up to vote only to find that their names had already been crossed off the list, suggesting other people were voting multiple times.

'Last night police officers were present at the count to remove the ballot papers and keep them as evidence,? reports the Daily Mail. ?The papers were from 10 different boxes across Glasgow, and not concentrated in one area.'

While these videos by no means offer concrete evidence of vote fraud, they do feed into the sentiment that the British establishment was so panicked by the prospect of a ?Yes? vote, a likelihood which grew which after polls narrowed earlier this month, that it would go to any lengths to prevent Scotland from gaining independence.

Hm.

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19 Sep 2014, 11:23 am

RIA.RU: "Russian Observers Say Westminter Put Pressure on Scots on Referendum Day" (September 19, 2014)
http://en.ria.ru/world/20140919/1930972 ... ts-on.html

RIA.ru wrote:

Russian observers think that Westminster put significant pressure on Scots during the independence referendum on September 18.

'According to what our observers at the polling offices tell us, there were more Yes votes during the vote count. Scotland found itself under immense pressure? Those on the UK side campaigning for a No vote resorted to every violation imaginable,' Georgy Fyodorov, the head of the Association for the Protection of Electoral Rights 'Civil control,' told RIA Novosti on Friday....

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19 Sep 2014, 11:47 am

Why are you quoting these "reliable" sources?

Is there anything to learn from the people who think the US government is a satanic conspiracy (infowars) or the people who brought electoral reform to Grozny with bombs and tanks (Putin)???

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19 Sep 2014, 12:08 pm

Adamantium wrote:

Would someone here just give me a copy of the Wrong Planet Rulebook of Acceptable Beliefs, Thoughts and Opinion? Because I am at a loss to determine what I may or may not write here without being showered with fallacious criticisms. Apparently, free speech and diversity of opinion means nothing here. When I was a kid, the phrase of Evelyn Beatrice Hall that "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" meant something in polite, intellectual society.

"Sieg Heil!" in any case.

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19 Sep 2014, 12:32 pm

AspieUtah wrote:

Adamantium wrote:

No one told you not to quote Alex Jones. Your response is certainly in line with his way of thinking.

I'll just get in my black helicopter now and fly back to report to my reptilian alien satanic overlords at the NSA section of the trilateral commission and let them know that my bid for mind control through wrong planet has failed...

In all seriousness, though, looking to Putin's Russia or Alex Jones for information about Scotland seems peculiar. Do you give credence to their views on this?

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19 Sep 2014, 12:38 pm

Adamantium wrote:

AspieUtah wrote:

Adamantium wrote:

No one told you not to quote Alex Jones. Your response is certainly in line with his way of thinking.

I'll just get in my black helicopter now and fly back to report to my reptilian alien satanic overlords at the NSA section of the trilateral commission and let them know that my bid for mind control through wrong planet has failed...

In all seriousness, thought, looking to Putin's Russia or Alex Jones for information about Scotland seems peculiar. Do you give credence to their views on this?

MODERATORS?!?

Adamantium
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19 Sep 2014, 12:59 pm

There is a story about the Russian statements and some analysis of the thinking behind it at the Guardian:

www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/1 ... referendum

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19 Sep 2014, 1:41 pm

This was a close one!

However, I wouldn't be surprised if another referendum vote is attempted in the future.

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19 Sep 2014, 2:03 pm

AnonymousAnonymous wrote:

This was a close one!

However, I wouldn't be surprised if another referendum vote is attempted in the future.

The future is a big place!

But in the near future, this will depend on how Westminster lives up to the promises of decentralization and devolution of power to the nations of the UK and regions of England. If the parties in Westminster fail to deliver real power to Scotland, then there will be another referendum. But if they live up to the promises made in the campaign, then I think it will be a very long time before another referendum.

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19 Sep 2014, 2:29 pm

I was hoping a victory from the "yes", which could have allowed the more socialist Scotland to give a economic lesson to the western world; aka austerity can be a bad idea and heavilly taxing the wealthy with a large redistribution of wealth is the best way to ensure the prosperity of the nation and of all the citizens. I'm not suprised though, the tendency right now is to things getting worse, so now it figure that the result is what allow nations to continue their bad economic policies.

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19 Sep 2014, 2:32 pm

AspieUtah wrote:

RIA.RU: "Russian Observers Say Westminter Put Pressure on Scots on Referendum Day" (September 19, 2014)
http://en.ria.ru/world/20140919/1930972 ... ts-on.html

RIA.ru wrote:

To quote from our national poet Robert Burns,the author of Auld Lang Syne
O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us (Oh would some power the gift to give us)
Tae see oursels as ithers see us! (To see ourselves as others see us)

The Russian view is interesting but it can honestly be dismissed as blatant propoganda.They were desperate for a break-up to destabilise NATO as the UK's nuclear submarines are based in Scottish waters. The truth is that No voters have always been in the silent majority and although the referendum was conducted mainly in a civilised fashion,there was a minority of campaigners on both sides who were intent on causing some disorder,but if anyone it was in fact elements who attached themselves to the Yes campaign that were seen as being more vocal,aggressive and intimidating.
The conspiracy theory of Alex Jones is based on the misguided 'Braveheart/Freedom' view of the sitution.Scotland was a
partner in creating both the United Kingdom and the empire that has become the 71-country family of nations that is the
British Commonwealth. The referendum result reflects that the majority of the population are still proud to be both Scottish and British and would be happy to see a fairer society across not just Scotland but all of England,Wales and Northern Ireland too.

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19 Sep 2014, 2:40 pm

pluto wrote:

...Scotland was a partner in creating both the United Kingdom and the empire that has become the 71-country family of nations that is the
British Commonwealth....

U.S. Presidents Jefferson and Madison wrote in 1798 and 1799 about the sovereignty of states within the United States. The ability of states to accept or resign their membership with the union is among the rights that they, at least, considered natural (or God given). Too bad President Lincoln didn't remember that in 1860. Scotland attempted to do the same. And, to its credit, the United Kingdom agreed.

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19 Sep 2014, 3:46 pm

And if the UK government is promising us special powers I'd like to have the ability to fly and a cloak that renders me invisible please

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19 Sep 2014, 11:44 pm

I think the name "Scotland" should be done away with now, and the whole place should just be called England.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-Benjamin Franklin

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20 Sep 2014, 2:23 am

So Scotland isn't an country ?
Well,we share that distinction with 3 of the other best 'non-countries' in the world - England,Wales and Northern Ireland.

Scotland actually has more independence than England in some ways,which many English people are quite correctly concerned about.Both countries have separate legal,education,policing systems,international sports teams etc but Scotland has its own Parliament,which England doesn't.The UK government is seen by many in England to favour London and the South East,although it could be argued that London is obviously a major financial centre of the world.The No vote has led to calls for a better system of government for everyone in the UK.

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