Page 1 of 1 [ 5 posts ] 

russiank12
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2014
Age: 28
Gender: Female
Posts: 328
Location: Oklahoma, USA

30 Aug 2014, 11:49 pm

I've recently developed a special interest in historical tv series and history itself. So, how historically accurate are shows like The Tudors, The Borgias/Borgia, The White Queen, The Musketeers, Da Vinici's Demons, Rome, etc? Also, what are some of your favourite historical tv series? Mine is The Borgias.

Of course not everything we watch is accurate (or inaccurate).
I've found The Borgias to be mostly truth with some embellishments. Such as the incest, murder of Juan, Juan's battle, or the whole cannon thing. The Netflix series seems to be better with the history than the Showtime one. I do enjoy seeing things like Michelangelo's drawings and designs or other tiny things they do. The Tudors was really weird to me in the beginning because Henry has two sisters in real life, but only one in the series. Also, Anne Boleyn has dark hair. As for the The White Queen: anachronisms. Lots of them. (Rubber boots!?!?)

I've only seen one episode of Da Vinici's Demons, The Musketeers, and no episodes of Rome so I can't talk about those.



ScrewyWabbit
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Oct 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,154

02 Sep 2014, 12:28 pm

Rome is very loosely based on history - IIRC Titus Pullo and Lucious Verenius are briefly mentioned in some account of Julius Ceasar's life or something to that effect. There's really nothing known about their actual lives so the story is highly fictionalized.

The Tudors is probably my favorite historical show. From what I know about the story of Henry its reasonably accurate though I certainly don't know enough details about the real life history of it to know for sure.

The Borgias (the Showtime version) to me seemed a bit far-fetched. If the Pope and his family had done things like what is portrayed and it was widely known about at the time, it probably would have lead to his downfall. To the extent that such things happened and were successfully concealed, well, how accurate could a retelling of them really be then? In any case certainly an entertaining show and I liked it a lot, but probably about as historically accurate as "Braveheart" is (Scottsman really did set battlefields afire, dontcha know?). From what I can recall reading about Rodrigo Borgias, probably the fact that he had kids and the pope going around having affairs might have been true. The poisoning part apparently was though its unclear what they actually used - I forgot the name of the poison of choice used in the series but IIRC historians don't know what it actually was, only that it was referred to by that name. And IIRC there's no historical basis for the incest portrayed in the show.

Have not seen the others that you mentioned.

I guess you could add some other shows to your list, depending on how far back in history you want to go. Deadwood, for instance - IMHO a great, great show hat was cancelled too soon - again filled with tons of imbelishments but many of the characters based on real life people- Al Swearengen, Bill Hicock, Sol Star, Seth Bullock , Calamity Jane, George Hearst.



russiank12
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2014
Age: 28
Gender: Female
Posts: 328
Location: Oklahoma, USA

02 Sep 2014, 11:06 pm

ScrewyWabbit wrote:
Rome is very loosely based on history - IIRC Titus Pullo and Lucious Verenius are briefly mentioned in some account of Julius Ceasar's life or something to that effect. There's really nothing known about their actual lives so the story is highly fictionalized.

The Tudors is probably my favorite historical show. From what I know about the story of Henry its reasonably accurate though I certainly don't know enough details about the real life history of it to know for sure.

The Borgias (the Showtime version) to me seemed a bit far-fetched. If the Pope and his family had done things like what is portrayed and it was widely known about at the time, it probably would have lead to his downfall. To the extent that such things happened and were successfully concealed, well, how accurate could a retelling of them really be then? In any case certainly an entertaining show and I liked it a lot, but probably about as historically accurate as "Braveheart" is (Scottsman really did set battlefields afire, dontcha know?). From what I can recall reading about Rodrigo Borgias, probably the fact that he had kids and the pope going around having affairs might have been true. The poisoning part apparently was though its unclear what they actually used - I forgot the name of the poison of choice used in the series but IIRC historians don't know what it actually was, only that it was referred to by that name. And IIRC there's no historical basis for the incest portrayed in the show.

Have not seen the others that you mentioned.

I guess you could add some other shows to your list, depending on how far back in history you want to go. Deadwood, for instance - IMHO a great, great show hat was cancelled too soon - again filled with tons of imbelishments but many of the characters based on real life people- Al Swearengen, Bill Hicock, Sol Star, Seth Bullock , Calamity Jane, George Hearst.


That was just all I thought of at the moment. I know there are mannyyy more. Another good one is the miniseries Hatfields and McCoys. I don't know much about the civil war other than what I learned in 10th grade American history class.

The poison used was canterella. I actually wanted to find out more about it, but there is very little information on it.

The Borgias and their time were actually much worse than portrayed in the show. I think they wanted to make something believable, so they toned it down. In actuality, almost all of the cardinals were taking bribes rather than just a select few. Cesare was the one with syphilis (not sure if Juan had it, but I don't think so) and had lots more prostitutes than shown. The Banquet of Chestnuts was real (there is very little documentation on it though, so there are arguments about this), but Cesare , the pope, and Lucrezia were there too, supposedly.
I think that while, by today's standards, they are bad I don't think they were so out of the ordinary back then. Poisoning was pretty common, as was nepotism. They did have many enemies, and therefore rumours/lies told of them, because of their Spanish blood, Giovanni Sforza, and Pope Julius

As for The Tudors, Henry was already pretty fat when he married Anne Boleyn right? Didn't he injure his leg or something and then got fat and ugly around 37 and then got diabetes (??), but an ugly main character wouldn't make for a good HBO series (what with all the sex and stuff). I know he was good looking when younger though. I will have to research him more.



Hi_Im_B0B
Pileated woodpecker
Pileated woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 8 Aug 2014
Age: 70
Gender: Male
Posts: 193

19 Sep 2014, 1:23 pm

there can a vast difference between "history" and "historical drama". how near to real history depends on how much research was done by the author/screnwriter/director/producers, and how much of that they choose to incorporate into the project. costumes and props are often from incorrect time periods or even just a modern designer's idea of what would look good. the details of life spring forth in rehearsals or even ad-lib while the cameras roll. but the vast majority of the audience aren't familiar with the proper details anyway, wouldn't notice them or care. so unless it's explicitly a documentary (ie. totally fact-based history) then the emphasis is on the drama, the entertainment factor. after all, the point of it is to make money for the producers, so they aren't going to let such meddlesome things as facts get in the way of a good story.

of course, there are the occasional real-life historical incidents that are just bloody good stories, without the need for embellishment. but even they will get tweaked here and there to fit the screen.



GoonSquad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 May 2007
Age: 54
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,748
Location: International House of Paincakes...

20 Sep 2014, 12:30 pm

ScrewyWabbit wrote:
Rome is very loosely based on history - IIRC Titus Pullo and Lucious Verenius are briefly mentioned in some account of Julius Ceasar's life or something to that effect. There's really nothing known about their actual lives so the story is highly fictionalized.


So, I'm a bit obsessed with Roman history and Rome is a guilty pleasure of mine... It certainly is not historically accurate in it's details. For instance, Attia of the Julii is a purely fictionalized version of Octavian's mother Atia Balba Caesonia/Secunda who we don't really know anything about... In the show, Attia is an extremely entertaining character. She an amoral political schemer, who uses sex (and any other means) to achieve her goals. She's actually based in part on Cicero's dubious description of Clodia Metelli in his defense of Marcus Caelius Rufus. That work is sometimes called the Pro Caelio. It is VERY entertaining and informative with regards to the lives of young, wealthy Romans around the time of the fall of the Republic. It is definitely worth reading!

As far as Pullo and Vorenus go, they are the only legionaries mentioned by name in Caesar's Commentaries on the Gallic War.

Here's what he says (book 5, chapter 44):
http://www.forumromanum.org/literature/ ... e5.html#44
Quote:
In that legion there were two very brave men, centurions, who were now approaching the first ranks, T. Pulfio, and L. Varenus. These used to have continual disputes between them which of them should be preferred, and every year used to contend for promotion with the utmost animosity. When the fight was going on most vigorously before the fortifications, Pulfio, one of them, says, ?Why do you hesitate, Varenus? or what [better] opportunity of signalizing your valor do you seek? This very day shall decide our disputes.? When he had uttered these words, he proceeds beyond the fortifications, and rushes on that part of the enemy which appeared the thickest. Nor does Varenus remain within the rampart, but respecting the high opinion of all, follows close after. Then, when an inconsiderable space intervened, Pulfio throws his javelin at the enemy, and pierces one of the multitude who was running up, and while the latter was wounded and slain, the enemy cover him with their shields, and all throw their weapons at the other and afford him no opportunity of retreating. The shield of Pulfio is pierced and a javelin is fastened in his belt. This circumstance turns aside his scabbard and obstructs his right hand when attempting to draw his sword: the enemy crowd around him when [thus] embarrassed. His rival runs up to him and succors him in this emergency. Immediately the whole host turn from Pulfio to him, supposing the other to be pierced through by the javelin. Varenus rushes on briskly with his sword and carries on the combat hand to hand, and having slain one man, for a short time drove back the rest: while he urges on too eagerly, slipping into a hollow, he fell. To him, in his turn, when surrounded, Pulfio brings relief; and both having slain a great number, retreat into the fortifications amid the highest applause. Fortune so dealt with both in this rivalry and conflict, that the one competitor was a succor and a safeguard to the other, nor could it be determined which of the two appeared worthy of being preferred to the other.

That account actually reminds me of this scene from the show...
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pj8yq_urL5c[/youtube]

In the show Pullo and Vorenus become clients of Caesar and later the young Octavian. All of that is purely fictional too.

As I said before, Rome is a guilty pleasure of mine, and definitely worth watching, but a better, more historically accurate show about Rome (it actually sort of works as a sequel to Rome) is I Claudius . It was made back in the 70s, I think, but it still holds up well. You should be able to find the whole series on youtube.


_________________
No man is free who is not master of himself.~Epictetus