Page 2 of 2 [ 24 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2


Venn diagram of the people on the autistic spectrum and the friends of anarchism
I am on the autistic spectrum and reject all forms of hierarchical organisation 52%  52%  [ 27 ]
I am on the autistic spectrum and perceive hierarchy as the only scalable form of organisation 42%  42%  [ 22 ]
I am non-autistic and reject all forms of hierarchical organisation 4%  4%  [ 2 ]
I am non-autistic and perceive hierarchy as the only scalable form of organisation 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 52

jbw
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2013
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 421

24 Sep 2014, 12:21 am

The votes of those on the autistic spectrum so far seem to indicate a fairly even split between those who reject all forms of hierarchy and those who believe that some form of hierarchy is the only scalable organisational structure for human societies.

If you have not yet cast your vote, please do to increase the size of the data set.

To gather similar data from the neurotypical population I probably would have to run a similar poll on a different site that attracts a broader cross-section of society. I would be really surprised if the neurotypical population results in a comparable distribution of votes. The following graph constructed with the help of the Google Ngram Viewer is probably a good indication of what results are to be expected: http://goo.gl/4FXsYY.



Birdsleep
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 5 Sep 2014
Age: 54
Gender: Female
Posts: 79

25 Sep 2014, 2:40 am

jbw wrote:
Birdsleep wrote:
The best ideology can be perverted and twisted into something unhealthy, if there are enough
psychopaths pulling the strings and enough ignorant people to put up with it.


Yes, this observation is spot-on. There is significant evidence that typical human brains are primarily cultural copying machines. The fidelity of the copying mechanism is quite impressive, certainly from an autistic perspective. Some researchers even present the human ability to copy behaviour as the greatest achievement of humanity. Psychopaths seem to have an intuitive understanding of the typical human copying mechanism, and they simply present their victims with templates that serve their special interest in dominance, and then know exactly how to activate the copy button... again and again. The hierarchical structure of societies is no accident. It is the result of psychopaths playing copying machine operator with the typical population.

Mainstream society is programmed to propagate psychopathic social pyramid schemes and associated forms of corruption.

Birdsleep wrote:
Yesterday we had elections in New Zealand, and in spite of the timely exposure of the despicable corruption
of the current government, the same government got voted into power again,which clearly shows,
that society at large is not ready to demand fairness and integrity from it's leadership.
Let alone to work out fair and wise consensus solutions in a non-hierarchical way.


I also cast my vote in that election. It was depressing to see the extent to which the media is complicit with the establishment, blocking off critical discussions and using linguistic engineering to create a systematic bias designed to protect established institutions.

Birdsleep wrote:
I'm definitely in favor of such a mature system. But I would call it rather Synarchy than Anarchy, a system where each member has the well-being of all the others in mind.
Like a bee-hive. As a beekeeper I know that bees are true anarchists, because no worker bee ever tells
another worker bee what it has to do, but all love to work for the common good of their hive,
because they instinctively know how much they depend on each other.
(Of course it's a bad comparison, because humans are more individualistic and complex than insects, but even bees are not like cyborgs at all, that is a wrong stereotype.)


Humans are mainly special in their ability to consciously ignore physical reality, even to the extent where it threatens human existence on the planet. Humans have a lot to learn from other species. Nature is not nearly as competitive as the modern social Darwinists would like to have us believe. Two very interesting books on this topic:
- MUTUAL AID - A FACTOR OF EVOLUTION, BY P. KROPOTKIN, published 1902, http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/4341
- The Age of Empathy: Nature's Lessons for a Kinder Society, published 2012, http://www.amazon.com/Age-Empathy-Natur ... B006WB7KEA


What worries me is that the ruling sociopaths seem to be organized in very efficient networks, while autistic individuals who would counter them don't have a tendency to get much organized.
Although organized groups can easily be infiltrated and destroyed from within by treason or sabotage,
lone individuals can be more easily harassed, especially when they have already enough on their plate merely surviving with an autistic condition.
Also ruthless crime and deception seem to have an unfair advantage over truthfulness and integrity, especially with the average person so willingly believing the most blatant lies.
The playing-field is not level. How could this planet ever be a nice place to live under such circumstances?
It looks pretty hopeless, unless autism is becoming the norm at some time in the not so far future, before the planet gets damaged and poisoned beyond repair.



r84shi37
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 28 Sep 2012
Age: 27
Gender: Male
Posts: 448

25 Sep 2014, 4:05 am

Anarcho-libertarian here. Not sure if I'm on the spectrum as I haven't been to a psychiatrist.
Frankly, the free market sorts itself out. There's also the non aggression principle. Governments are run on the basis of hurting people and taking their stuff which is the exact opposite of the non aggression principle. I think most people believe anarchist society is inherently violent but I believe just the opposite. E.g if drugs were legal then would drugs lead to nearly as much violence as they do currently?

It's 3 am and my keyboard is glitching out. I'll be back tomorro.


_________________
Do I have HFA? Nope, I've never seen a psychiatrist in my life. I'm just here to talk to you crazies. ; - )


Birdsleep
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 5 Sep 2014
Age: 54
Gender: Female
Posts: 79

25 Sep 2014, 4:59 am

I'm curious too what the ratio would be for non-autistic people.
Depends which kind of forum you poll. If it's some fringe-/ or conspiracy
forum you get a high ratio for non-hierarchical systems.
If it's mainstream-conservative, it will be the opposite.
Difficult to get a true average result?



Jensen
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2013
Age: 70
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,013
Location: Denmark

25 Sep 2014, 6:10 am

In short, I second r2d2. Nothing to add.

I just wonder about the outcome of this poll. How many non-autistc people do in fact show up here?


_________________
Femaline
Special Interest: Beethoven


neobluex
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 31 May 2013
Age: 27
Gender: Male
Posts: 589
Location: Argentina

25 Sep 2014, 7:25 am

Jensen wrote:
I just wonder about the outcome of this poll. How many non-autistc people do in fact show up here?


Me (don't have a diagnosis).

"I am non-autistic and perceive hierarchy as the only scalable form of organisation".



Jensen
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2013
Age: 70
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,013
Location: Denmark

25 Sep 2014, 7:52 am

:D


_________________
Femaline
Special Interest: Beethoven


Sigbold
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Jan 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,930
Location: Netherlands

01 Oct 2014, 11:16 am

I think non-hierarchical forms of organization only work on the small scale. Increase the scale and of hierarchy would become necessary. Even in the form of elected representatives that are supposed to look after the interests of those who had chosen him. So the problem is not the existence of a hierarchy, but to ensure that those rise up in it are fit for it.

BuyerBeware wrote:
WE WOULDN'T. The survival of the anarchist society depends on a very high percentage of the people (I'd say upwards of 90%) having the autistic sense of fairness (and not just as it relates to self, but extending into social justice). Most of us do...

...but most people DON'T.


Indeed, anarchism would probably only work if a significant amount of people where perfect Kantians when applied on a large scale.