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PlainsAspie
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28 Sep 2014, 7:09 pm

It drives me insane when I hear neurotypical people talk about how great Max from Parenthoodis for the autism community. This buzz feed article is one example: http://www.buzzfeed.com/emilyorley/how- ... er#3yiqv42

In some respects, he's an accurate portrayal, but overall, not so much. He's a neurotypical's interpretation of aspergers. Now, you might say "if you've met one autistic person, you've met one autistic person." That's true. There's over 100 million autistics in the world. Each is unique. Not a single one of them was involved in the cast or crew of this show. Does Jason Katims deserve credit for trying? No, a real effort would involve actual autistic people, such as on the bridge.

If a show about a black family was made with no black cast, crew, or consultants, there'd be an uproar. Now, you might say I shouldn't compare race and disability. Note this: skin color is skin deep, but disability isn't. For that reason, I'd say it's even worse to exclude when a disability is involved.

Disclaimer: Just in case anyone brings up free speech/free markets, I am NOT advocating making it illegal to create autistic characters without involving autistic people. I'm just exercising my right criticize.

End of rant. Feels good to get that off my chest. :mrgreen:



Feralucce
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28 Sep 2014, 10:05 pm

The problem with this is you are both right and wrong... The character is an accurate portrayal... of one of us...just one... there are as many forms of autism as there are Autists +the several diagnostics versions


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riley
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28 Sep 2014, 10:27 pm

They do have a consultant who does have alot of experience with ASD.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/jason-katims-emmys-parenthood-max-burkholder-334239

..though in saying that the article calls it a disease which is just silly they should know better. It is a disorder.

If the character gives more real awareness, is well written and an accurate portrayal I do not see any real need to have extra ASD consultants if they do not need them just for token's sake. If however they do need that extra information then the option is there. I am not surprised it gives a "NT" perspective as it isa show about the parent's perspective.

Of course there are many different forms of autism so they would have to get someone who is able to understand the ASD the character has. For instance if someone was going to write about severe autism getting someone with HFA would be pointless as they wouldn't have anymore insight into it than a regular NT.



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28 Sep 2014, 10:38 pm

Max does remind me of me from when I was a kid but he is more severe and more textbook. I think it's accurate but every aspie is different so not every aspie will act like him. Hank sure doesn't act like him. I don't think anyone can ever do an autism character without anyone saying it's inaccurate.


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PlainsAspie
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28 Sep 2014, 10:48 pm

Feralucce wrote:
The problem with this is you are both right and wrong... The character is an accurate portrayal... of one of us...just one... there are as many forms of autism as there are Autists +the several diagnostics versions


of a fake aspie. By that measure literally any portrayal would have to be called accurate.

riley wrote:
They do have a consultant who does have alot of experience with ASD.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/jason-katims-emmys-parenthood-max-burkholder-334239

..though in saying that the article calls it a disease which is just silly they should know better. It is a disorder.

If the character gives more real awareness, is well written and an accurate portrayal I do not see any real need to have extra ASD consultants if they do not need them just for token's sake. If however they do need that extra information then the option is there. I am not surprised it gives a "NT" perspective as it isa show about the parent's perspective.

Of course there are many different forms of autism so they would have to get someone who is able to understand the ASD the character has. For instance if someone was going to write about severe autism getting someone with HFA would be pointless as they wouldn't have anymore insight into it than a regular NT.


Of course they had NT consultants. They are medical experts, but they still don't experience autism in the way we do. Having someone had actually is autistic is a huge difference. It's like running am autism org with no autistics in senior leadership or on the board (oh wait...)



PlainsAspie
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28 Sep 2014, 11:02 pm

Some things that really bothered me:

In "Team Braverman", Max had no idea he was in any way different. I don't find that plausible.

They push the high divorce rate myth as fact

they push the idea that you can't/shouldn't discipline aspies for being inconsiderate and in doing so make us all look like spoiled brats with no self-control

the whole charter school thing bothered me too. some autistics might be better off outside mainstream schools, but Max isn't one of them



andrethemoogle
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28 Sep 2014, 11:04 pm

I think for a character with Asperger's, you should try to find an actor/actress who actually has it, or someone who has AS but is capable of performing a role for the first time.



ASPartOfMe
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29 Sep 2014, 2:00 am

My experience with the show is very minimal I have only seen a few post Hank thinking he is an Aspie episodes and not any past the field trip bullying episode.

I don't have a problem with an NT actor. You have people playing people from other countries and ethnicities well all of the time. I would rather have the actor visiting the teenage section here rather the consulting Autism Speaks (not blaming the kid for this, this is the biggest problem with Autism Speaks as the go to organization for Autism). And that it was I saw, the NT/Parents view of Aspergers. It can't be wildly inaccurate and have credibility for the NT parents of aspies watching. In the episodes I watched Max was a "special snowflake" spoiled brat which is how many NT parents would see their Aspie teenager or an Aspie teenager they know.

As for Hank, to be more realistic, the psychologist and most other adults would think he was using it as an excuse to be rude.
He would be told to "man up" a lot. He would internalize a lot of it go into depression but something underneath is still saying the ASD description fits him. He would be misdiagnosed a few times before finding a specialist who gets it right. But with 13 episodes left the show doesn't have time for that, and if that was what was portrayed like this place would go nuts with anger. I am happy Hank is not a savant as from what I hear is being portrayed by all of the characters in the new CBS show "Scorpions"

In the episodes I watched Aunt Sarah seemed to be clueless about others emotions so I would expect a Aspergers storyline around her.


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 29 Sep 2014, 3:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

League_Girl
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29 Sep 2014, 3:14 am

PlainsAspie wrote:
Some things that really bothered me:

In "Team Braverman", Max had no idea he was in any way different. I don't find that plausible.

They push the high divorce rate myth as fact

they push the idea that you can't/shouldn't discipline aspies for being inconsiderate and in doing so make us all look like spoiled brats with no self-control

the whole charter school thing bothered me too. some autistics might be better off outside mainstream schools, but Max isn't one of them



I have seen members here say they had no clue they were different until a certain age so I think it's plausible. My mom had an aspie student when she was a teacher's aid and he thought he was normal and everyone else was weird.

Some parents do let their special needs kids get away with murder and not try and teach them anything or try and control their behavior.


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League_Girl
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29 Sep 2014, 3:17 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
My experience with the show is very minimal I have only seen a few post Hank thinking he is an Aspie episodes and not any past the field trip bullying episode.

I don't have a problem with an NT actor. You have people playing people from other countries and ethnicities well all of the time. I would rather have the actor visiting the teenage section here rather the consulting Autism Speaks (not blaming the kid for this, this is the biggest problem with Autism Speaks as the go to organization for Autism). And that it was I saw, the NT/Parents view of Aspergers. It can't be wildly inaccurate and have credibility for the NT parents of aspies watching. In the episodes I watched Max was a "special snowflake" spoiled brat which is how many NT parents would see their Aspie teenager or an Aspie teenager they know. The lack of discipline from the adults in the show is telling.

As for Hank, to be more realistic psychologist and most other adults would think he was using it as an excuse to be rude.
He would be told to "man up" a lot. He would internalize a lot of it go into depression but something underneath is still saying the ASD description fits him. He would be misdiagnosed a few times before finding a specialist who gets it right. But with 13 episodes left the show doesn't have time for that, and if that was what was portrayed like this place would go nuts with anger. I am happy Hank is not a savant as from what I hear is being portrayed by all of the characters in the new CBS show "Scorpions"

In the episodes I watched Aunt Sarah seemed to be clueless about others emotions so I would expect a Aspergers storyline around her.



I thought he was making improvements after the discovery and the psychologist has been helping him with it despite no diagnoses. That is good because it seems like most of the time whenever an aspie discovers they have it, they quit trying to be normal they call it so they seem to regress.


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PlainsAspie
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29 Sep 2014, 11:36 am

League_Girl wrote:
I have seen members here say they had no clue they were different until a certain age so I think it's plausible. My mom had an aspie student when she was a teacher's aid and he thought he was normal and everyone else was weird.


Are the members who didn't know only "mildly" affected, though? I'm thinking the less "mild" the more obvious it is, and Max is definitely more affected than me. Of course they wouldn't know the name without being told, but I suspect they'd still they're different. A kid thinking he's normal and everyone else is weird is still noticing a difference.

League_Girl wrote:
Some parents do let their special needs kids get away with murder and not try and teach them anything or try and control their behavior.


and they aren't hailed as great heroic parents



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29 Sep 2014, 11:44 am

PlainsAspie wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
I have seen members here say they had no clue they were different until a certain age so I think it's plausible. My mom had an aspie student when she was a teacher's aid and he thought he was normal and everyone else was weird.


Are the members who didn't know only "mildly" affected, though? I'm thinking the less "mild" the more obvious it is, and Max is definitely more affected than me. Of course they wouldn't know the name without being told, but I suspect they'd still they're different. A kid thinking he's normal and everyone else is weird is still noticing a difference.

League_Girl wrote:
Some parents do let their special needs kids get away with murder and not try and teach them anything or try and control their behavior.


and they aren't hailed as great heroic parents




Those members were more affected than me. Yeah some of them also said they thought everyone else was weird.


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League_Girl
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29 Sep 2014, 11:45 am

PlainsAspie wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
I have seen members here say they had no clue they were different until a certain age so I think it's plausible. My mom had an aspie student when she was a teacher's aid and he thought he was normal and everyone else was weird.


Are the members who didn't know only "mildly" affected, though? I'm thinking the less "mild" the more obvious it is, and Max is definitely more affected than me. Of course they wouldn't know the name without being told, but I suspect they'd still they're different. A kid thinking he's normal and everyone else is weird is still noticing a difference.

League_Girl wrote:
Some parents do let their special needs kids get away with murder and not try and teach them anything or try and control their behavior.


and they aren't hailed as great heroic parents




Those members were more affected than me. Yeah some of them also said they thought everyone else was weird.


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PlainsAspie
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29 Sep 2014, 5:26 pm

League_Girl wrote:

Those members were more affected than me. Yeah some of them also said they thought everyone else was weird.


Then I stand corrected on that particular point.



themanfromuranus
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13 Oct 2014, 1:00 am

PlainsAspie wrote:
Feralucce wrote:
The problem with this is you are both right and wrong... The character is an accurate portrayal... of one of us...just one... there are as many forms of autism as there are Autists +the several diagnostics versions


of a fake aspie. By that measure literally any portrayal would have to be called accurate.

riley wrote:
They do have a consultant who does have alot of experience with ASD.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/jason-katims-emmys-parenthood-max-burkholder-334239

..though in saying that the article calls it a disease which is just silly they should know better. It is a disorder.

If the character gives more real awareness, is well written and an accurate portrayal I do not see any real need to have extra ASD consultants if they do not need them just for token's sake. If however they do need that extra information then the option is there. I am not surprised it gives a "NT" perspective as it isa show about the parent's perspective.

Of course there are many different forms of autism so they would have to get someone who is able to understand the ASD the character has. For instance if someone was going to write about severe autism getting someone with HFA would be pointless as they wouldn't have anymore insight into it than a regular NT.


Of course they had NT consultants. They are medical experts, but they still don't experience autism in the way we do. Having someone had actually is autistic is a huge difference. It's like running am autism org with no autistics in senior leadership or on the board (oh wait...)
medical "experts" are our enemies, they are a bunch of idiots play god , i watched parenthood, this is as worse as doing a hate film about autists



Feralucce
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13 Oct 2014, 1:46 pm

themanfromuranus wrote:
PlainsAspie wrote:
Feralucce wrote:
The problem with this is you are both right and wrong... The character is an accurate portrayal... of one of us...just one... there are as many forms of autism as there are Autists +the several diagnostics versions


of a fake aspie. By that measure literally any portrayal would have to be called accurate.

riley wrote:
They do have a consultant who does have alot of experience with ASD.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/jason-katims-emmys-parenthood-max-burkholder-334239

..though in saying that the article calls it a disease which is just silly they should know better. It is a disorder.

If the character gives more real awareness, is well written and an accurate portrayal I do not see any real need to have extra ASD consultants if they do not need them just for token's sake. If however they do need that extra information then the option is there. I am not surprised it gives a "NT" perspective as it isa show about the parent's perspective.

Of course there are many different forms of autism so they would have to get someone who is able to understand the ASD the character has. For instance if someone was going to write about severe autism getting someone with HFA would be pointless as they wouldn't have anymore insight into it than a regular NT.


Of course they had NT consultants. They are medical experts, but they still don't experience autism in the way we do. Having someone had actually is autistic is a huge difference. It's like running am autism org with no autistics in senior leadership or on the board (oh wait...)
medical "experts" are our enemies, they are a bunch of idiots play god , i watched parenthood, this is as worse as doing a hate film about autists


I've kept quiet about this... but I can't anymore... An US vs THEM attitude only hurts us... not them... BELIEVE IT OR NOT, they want to help.


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