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GoonSquad
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20 Oct 2014, 1:42 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6ZsXrzF8Cc[/youtube]
unfortunately this fairy tale is true. :(


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LoveNotHate
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20 Oct 2014, 6:41 am

Another fairy tale ...

An ambitious guy risks his life savings, and opens a pizzeria that employs twelve people. Despite working ten to twelve hour days, the business nearly goes bankrupt a few times, and he nearly looses everything. Yet, after a decade of hard work, he succeeds and starts earning a very high income.

Image


Now he is told that he is evil , and greedy. He is part of the 1% that is sucking the life out of the country. Despite the truth that he pays the most in income taxes.



GoonSquad
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20 Oct 2014, 11:32 am

^^^ Not unless this pizza guy is 'Papa' John Schnatter who happens to be a complete and utter douche. Because he can (and will) rot in hell.

Otherwise, I think sister Beth has it right...
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-P-CoSNYaI[/youtube]

Taxes are the price WE ALL pay to live in civilization. And since the time of the S.P.Q.R.'s Servian Constitution (2500 year ago) it has been understood that those who benefit the most from civilization owe the most back to society.

It's really that simple.

It's really THAT FAIR.

This is only a problem when greedy, amoral, randian as*holes make it so.


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LoveNotHate
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20 Oct 2014, 3:51 pm

GoonSquad wrote:

Taxes are the price WE ALL pay to live in civilization. [And since the time of the S.P.Q.R.'s Servian Constitution (2500 year ago) it has been understood that those who benefit the most from civilization owe the most back to society.

This is only a problem when greedy, amoral, randian as*holes make it so.


It is the poor that benefit the most in society, since they benefit from the success of the rich. The rich are the ones paying for the roads, the schools, the police forces, since they pay most of the taxes. It is the rich that provide jobs for the poor. Ideally we would all be rich. However, we are not.



The_Walrus
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20 Oct 2014, 4:23 pm

Society is not the taxation system necessarily...

If the poor benefit more than the rich, why are the rich rich whilst the poor are poor? Would you rather be rich or poor, LNH?



GoonSquad
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20 Oct 2014, 6:21 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
Society is not the taxation system necessarily...

If the poor benefit more than the rich, why are the rich rich whilst the poor are poor? Would you rather be rich or poor, LNH?


Excellent questions, I'd like to hear LNH's answers as well. :)


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LoveNotHate
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20 Oct 2014, 7:08 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
Society is not the taxation system necessarily...

If the poor benefit more than the rich, why are the rich rich whilst the poor are poor?


The reason is because the rich don't have to do it. They can decide to be poor, or retire, or move to friendlier places. It is the rich person who makes the investment/takes the risk/devotes time towards a productive endeavor that benefits everyone.

For example, presently, the Taj mahal casino in Atlantic City, NJ is scheduled to close soon if the [poor] workers don't agree to cuts in benefits. The company told the workers either accept cuts or we are shutting down the casino

"Trump Casino Cuts May Save Taj Mahal at Union?s Expense"
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-1 ... pense.html

These poor people benefit from the rich casino owner more than the rich casino owner benefits from them.

The_Walrus wrote:
Would you rather be rich or poor, LNH?


Rich. My income puts me in the upper 5% of income earners.



GoonSquad
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20 Oct 2014, 7:50 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
Society is not the taxation system necessarily...

If the poor benefit more than the rich, why are the rich rich whilst the poor are poor?


The reason is because the rich don't have to do it. They can decide to be poor, or retire, or move to friendlier places. It is the rich person who makes the investment/takes the risk/devotes time towards a productive endeavor that benefits everyone.

For example, presently, the Taj mahal casino in Atlantic City, NJ is scheduled to close soon if the [poor] workers don't agree to cuts in benefits. The company told the workers either accept cuts or we are shutting down the casino

"Trump Casino Cuts May Save Taj Mahal at Union?s Expense"
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-1 ... pense.html

These poor people benefit from the rich casino owner more than the rich casino owner benefits from them.

Hmm... sounds like a welfare scam to me. The 'rich owner' wants to shift his employee's benefits on to the public.

That 'rich owner' needs to pay a living wage/benefits OR pay higher taxes to offset the burden his employees are putting on the system. There's NO FREE LUNCH.

If the owner cannot do either of those things, he needs to get out of the way and make room for someone who can.
We can't have anymore welfare scammers.

I'm sure you agree.
Quote:
The_Walrus wrote:
Would you rather be rich or poor, LNH?


Rich. My income puts me in the upper 5% of income earners.


:o
Oh, you poor dear!
It's no wonder you act so douchey sometimes...

Life must be hell for you. :roll:


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20 Oct 2014, 8:11 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
Society is not the taxation system necessarily...

If the poor benefit more than the rich, why are the rich rich whilst the poor are poor?


The reason is because the rich don't have to do it. They can decide to be poor, or retire, or move to friendlier places. It is the rich person who makes the investment/takes the risk/devotes time towards a productive endeavor that benefits everyone.

For example, presently, the Taj mahal casino in Atlantic City, NJ is scheduled to close soon if the [poor] workers don't agree to cuts in benefits. The company told the workers either accept cuts or we are shutting down the casino

"Trump Casino Cuts May Save Taj Mahal at Union?s Expense"
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-1 ... pense.html

These poor people benefit from the rich casino owner more than the rich casino owner benefits from them..


Donald Trump doesn't own the casino. He has no real control despite having his name on it, because he pulled his usual stunt of declaring bankruptcy to not pay off people. The Atlantic City casinos are closing because they aren't profitable due to other states legalizing gambling (especially Pennsylvania and Maryland), and Atlantic City is a terrible place to live right now even for New Jersey standards, especially after Hurricane Sandy. They don't have the money to stay afloat; asking your workers to take cuts in this situation is like saying trains need to cut the caboose because the worst accidents happen to the rear in an accident.

LoveNotHate wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
Would you rather be rich or poor, LNH?


Rich. My income puts me in the upper 5% of income earners.


And you live in Detroit? If I lived in Detroit (or near - the tax structure is probably set up to perform better outside the city than inside, I know it was like that for a while in Philadelphia until they changed it) and had that kind of money, I would do so much for the city they would have my statue next to RoboCop after I die.



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21 Oct 2014, 8:01 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
Another fairy tale ...

An ambitious guy risks his life savings, and opens a pizzeria that employs twelve people. Despite working ten to twelve hour days, the business nearly goes bankrupt a few times, and he nearly looses everything. Yet, after a decade of hard work, he succeeds and starts earning a very high income.

Image


Now he is told that he is evil , and greedy. He is part of the 1% that is sucking the life out of the country. Despite the truth that he pays the most in income taxes.



The guy who opens a pizzeria and makes the 1% list is not hated because he has earned his money and is rich, he is hated because of how he treats other human beings and because of the fact that he believes that being rich makes him somehow more worthy or more entitled than his workers, or other Americans, Citizens United being an example of his putting himself and his own interests above those of other Americans and the nation itself. Rich people should have no more importance in the political process than someone who is on welfare. Making money does not give one the right to corrupt society and destroy democracy. A civilized society is not dog eat dog. That is a Conservative fairy tale. If he was not living a life of greed, excess and gluttony and then rubbing it in the faces of the rest of society he would not be hated. You see, the majority of those who fall into the 1% category want us to worship them and grovel at their feet as if they are royalty.. In the end they are going to be dragged by their feet into the street and skinned alive if they do not learn to embrace the quality of humility.



Janissy
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21 Oct 2014, 11:32 am

Wait a minute.....Why is it being taken as axiomatic that successful small business owners are hated?

I hang with a pretty lefty crowd and always have. The hate that I have seen is directed at multinationals. Small business owners are embraced- especially by lefties in middle age.



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21 Oct 2014, 11:43 am

Janissy wrote:
Wait a minute.....Why is it being taken as axiomatic that successful small business owners are hated?

I hang with a pretty lefty crowd and always have. The hate that I have seen is directed at multinationals. Small business owners are embraced- especially by lefties in middle age.


There is no distinction. Facebook and all the multi-millionaires and multi-billionaries it created are good or bad ?



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21 Oct 2014, 11:46 am

iBlockhead wrote:
Donald Trump doesn't own the casino. He has no real control despite having his name on it, because he pulled his usual stunt of declaring bankruptcy to not pay off people. The Atlantic City casinos are closing because they aren't profitable due to other states legalizing gambling (especially Pennsylvania and Maryland), and Atlantic City is a terrible place to live right now even for New Jersey standards, especially after Hurricane Sandy. They don't have the money to stay afloat; asking your workers to take cuts in this situation is like saying trains need to cut the caboose because the worst accidents happen to the rear in an accident.


Carl Ichan, a billionaire has offered to help them if they agree to the cuts.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/bil ... al-n214186



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21 Oct 2014, 1:08 pm

khaoz wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Another fairy tale ...

An ambitious guy risks his life savings, and opens a pizzeria that employs twelve people. Despite working ten to twelve hour days, the business nearly goes bankrupt a few times, and he nearly looses everything. Yet, after a decade of hard work, he succeeds and starts earning a very high income.

Image


Now he is told that he is evil , and greedy. He is part of the 1% that is sucking the life out of the country. Despite the truth that he pays the most in income taxes.



The guy who opens a pizzeria and makes the 1% list is not hated because he has earned his money and is rich, he is hated because of how he treats other human beings and because of the fact that he believes that being rich makes him somehow more worthy or more entitled than his workers, or other Americans, Citizens United being an example of his putting himself and his own interests above those of other Americans and the nation itself. Rich people should have no more importance in the political process than someone who is on welfare. Making money does not give one the right to corrupt society and destroy democracy. A civilized society is not dog eat dog. That is a Conservative fairy tale. If he was not living a life of greed, excess and gluttony and then rubbing it in the faces of the rest of society he would not be hated. You see, the majority of those who fall into the 1% category want us to worship them and grovel at their feet as if they are royalty.. In the end they are going to be dragged by their feet into the street and skinned alive if they do not learn to embrace the quality of humility.


I must say you struck the nail squarely on-the-head several times in this post.

When I see a show on TV about "The men that made America" I know the Ford or other big name
could have been (and were) replaced by many others, but none of these could have survived without the skilled
and talented people THAT ACTUALLY DID THE WORK.

When I think of pig industrialists I no longer think of Ford but Romney. The Romney who's proud of
not allowing people to die in the streets of starvation......

....while I watch Army Veterans having to beg for assistance on TV, abandoned by their corporate controlled
"leaders." It doesn't get much more disgusting than this.

This is how the "noble" 1% feel it "proper" to treat others "below" themselves. And this is the U.S. today.