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mr_bigmouth_502
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23 Oct 2014, 12:57 am

Games were simply better before the mid 2000s. Developers actually put pride into making fun, polished products instead of just trying to rush crap out the door and leech people's wallets for more profits. The indie scene is a nice antidote to all the BS from the mainstream publishers and developers, but it's not a perfect replacement for how things used to be.

Anyway, my least favorite trends in modern gaming include:

- Overuse of cutscenes, dialog, and scripted events
- Games released to retail in a borderline "beta" state, requiring numerous patches
- DLC and other microtransaction BS
- Yearly iterations of popular franchises (Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, etc.)
- DRM on PC games
- Artstyles that don't change from game to game; every popular game nowadays seems to have this dull pseudo-photorealistic look
- The excessive amount of hype attached to new releases
- The whole "free to play" model which should really be called "pay to win"
- Games that clone one another; FPSs copy Call of Duty, open-world games copy GTA or Assassin's Creed, MMORPGs copy World of Warcraft, etc.
- The level of linearity in modern single player FPSs. What happened to being able to explore sprawling levels, like on DooM or Goldeneye?



Misery
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23 Oct 2014, 2:33 am

Yep, pretty much all of that. But it's really not too hard to find games that completely avoid all of those negative things.

For example, FPS games that play like Doom or similar games from back then; dodging fireballs that are flying everywhere, while getting lost in some big maze; there's been about a billion variations on this theme at this point, many of which are very good (as this is the type of FPS that I *will* actually play and am good at). Rogue Shooter is a favorite of mine, despite the bloody stupid name. It plays like Wolfenstein 3D did, though with elements of a roguelike in it; level exploration is a must, as is mastering the bazillions of weapon types, though it's the enemies that really steal the show with this one, having a huge variety of creative attack patterns. The game gets difficult fast, and the pacing is very, very quick; try to just hide behind a wall and snipe at things, and you're likely dead within 10 seconds. Running and dodging is key (and everything moves very fast), just like what something like Doom was (whereas the original Wolfenstein 3D's enemies were a bit too simple, and fighting with them was slower than that of Doom). And there are plenty that then play more like Doom itself, complete with all of the switch flipping and key grabbing.

Or something like platformers; there's things like La-Mulana, which plays like older platformers on machines similar to the MSX. Except with extreme complexity/difficulty and very confusing puzzles... the sort of difficulty that older games didnt hesitate to throw at you. If that one's too complex, perhaps something like Giana Sisters: Twisted Dreams. Giana Sisters is a very old series that started about a billion years ago, which originally mimicked Mario pretty heavily. In it's current incarnation, it's an extremely colorful platformer, complete with high difficulty and a bazillion things to collect as you run through each level, just like collecting coins/bananas/whatever back in older ones.

Then there's some of the more hardcore stuff, for example games that play like the old Wizardry series. Those interested in that type of game might look up one by the name of Paper Sorcerer, which is an excellent homage to games of that type, playing pretty much exactly the way that it should in order to recreate the gameplay style and feel that games like Wizardry had way back when.


And that's just games that tend to play like things that were from my own favorite era of gaming. There's tons of examples that go way beyond just the sort of things that *I* am into. And these arent things that are pale imitations of what once was; these are games that can actually equal those, and they're extremely common.

Yet even with this, people seem to get this bizarre (and annoying) idea that indie titles are all simple, little games.... Flash games, for instance. And that.... isnt even close to true. That sort of game actually is the minority. Annoyingly, that sort of game is also the most well-known, thanks to sites like Kongregate and similar places that host exactly that type of dinky little Flash titles. I personally wouldnt be into these sorts of games if they were all like those... I dont like the super-simple sorts. Never did, never will. It doesnt help that you actually have to seek these out, and go looking for yourself. Thanks to modern major developers, alot of gamers seem to now be VERY used to games coming to them, instead of the other way around. Publishers these days will jump up and down and shriek and practically launch piles of their game at you in order to do ANYTHING to grab your attention. Indie devs either A: dont need to do this, because they didnt spend 20 trillion dollars to make said game, or B: just dont care about that type of advertising (or simply dislike it, which seems to be the case for many)... they just put their game in the right place (such as Steam or Desura or a bunch of others), maybe get some mention on certain sites, and that's it.... and really, that's enough, just like it was way back when, before the internet was gigantic and before games cost so very much to make. Old games used to do exactly this sort of thing; you might see mention of them in magazines, but that was often about it. You learned about many games by actually browsing stores, and looking at the boxes. It's very similar to that. Or perhaps you learned about them by word-of-mouth.


It's not JUST indie titles, either. While they're much less numerous, there's also still plenty of games that are simply alot more obscure, yet put out by larger devs. For example, take the most recent SimCity game. That series was freaking legendary. And SimCity 4, which was superb, came out many, many years ago... everyone had waited so very long for a new game in the series, and number 5 comes out... and is absolutely terrible, because the developer became too bloated, thanks to The Sims and the presence of EA. So I went looking for a replacement, and found a game called Anno 2070, which is actually put out by Ubisoft. "Anno" being a long-running city-builder series from over in the UK, having hardly ever come to the US (I think only one other game in that series ever came here). But holy crap, this one is so freaking good. They absolutely nailed the gameplay, yet it's different from what SimCity is... hard to explain how, but I ended up vastly preferring it to the Simcity series overall. And the game is freaking GORGEOUS. It's one of those that will explode lesser machines, if you want to put the graphics at full. I dont normally get at all impressed by graphics these days, but THAT game managed it. Absolutely fantastic.


My overall point is, it's very worth really looking for stuff like this, going alot further than just seeing ads or stuff of that nature, or hearing about only the most popular games of this sort, like Minecraft. There's so much to be found there, and it can be every bit as good as games from the era you speak of. It's just that it takes some real effort, as there's LOTS of them out there. As opposed to just waiting for something to appear.


Ho boy, much longer ramble than I intended. Ugh. I've had way too much caffiene again. I get started with the typing and just keep going....



SabbraCadabra
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23 Oct 2014, 4:57 am

Kevo wrote:
...I'll always fondly remember Rogue, as I've never beaten, tried multiple times recreating it with QBasic back in the day, and as of right now, this moment, have just found someone who knew what it was.


I love Rogue...but, like you, have never beaten it >_< I always end up doing something careless and getting myself killed.

I think the majority of people know what a "roguelike" is, but don't necessarily know about Rogue itself.


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Evil_Chuck
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23 Oct 2014, 6:49 am

Suncatcher wrote:
I find the new games 'lacking' something...
I dont bind emotionally with it like i used to do.
You buy a game for 60~70 dollars and you it costs you more than 10/20gb these days and what do you get?

A game that has
- some fancy graphics
-You spend minutes walking and walking (NO FAST STRAFEJUMP ACTION :evil: )
-You die or kill within 1 sec whoever aims first.
-You do the same maps over and over again...
-No movement skill involved anymore, just whoever aims and shoots first wins
-Day 1 downloadable content that is already on the disc you just bought, only it is locked away with a key that you need to purchase. Think this is not so bad? Well, things just got absolutely disgusting with the release of skylanders : trap team that i bought for my best friend's kid.. I thought i would make her and him happy, but after 30 minutes of arrival i got a crying kid calling me. Why? All the content is already available on the 70 dollar disc you just bought, except.. the levels in the game needs to be unlocked with trap master characters that you need to purchase in the local shop, effectively costing you more than 200 dollars to unlock all the content that is already on the 70 dollar disc you just bought!
-No exploration ( diablo 3..), no more hours walking into absolutely nothing and just see what eastereggs and hidden areas you could find (like in dungeon siege 1)
-Master servers go offline after 3 years, community forced to move on to the latest sequal. Feeling emotionally attached to your game and dont like the feel of the new sequal? Too bad, resistance is futile

HOW DID WE SINK SO LOW?!

I'm with you. I avoid modern games because there's just not enough creative content out there to justify the cost of updating to a current console. For the cost of an Xbox One ($350), a second controller ($50), and a brand new game ($60-70) at your average retailer, I can buy a slim PS2 (or Dreamcast, or Nintendo 64, or GameCube) with two controllers, and about 20 games for it at my nearest independent game store. And all of those systems are proven winners with absolutely killer libraries.

And money is only part of it. If I turned my back on that amazing value and went current, what would I get? A graphical update, which is nice but definitely not essential. Online gaming, which I'm not interested in. A Kinect or some related gizmo I won't use. And, gradually, no more physical copies of games at all; just data that I download to my console, which is essentially a low-end PC with no monitor.

And speaking of the games. Besides graphics, what does Call of Duty and its ilk bring to FPS gaming that Doom didn't? Not very much. What fun can I have with Final Fantasy XIII or XIV that I didn't have with VII, IX or X? Who honestly believes that Soul Calibur IV or V can hold a candle to Soul Calibur I or II? And what modern game can recreate the feeling of MechWarrior II, Vectorman, Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance, or Super Mario Bros. 3?

Nope, modern gaming isn't for me. Somewhere around 2005 I looked back, saw all the awesome content that had already been produced, and realized there was no need to keep up with the Joneses. :)


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Last edited by Evil_Chuck on 24 Oct 2014, 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

sly279
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23 Oct 2014, 2:10 pm

Misery wrote:
i like the movies and don't find them too long, what games have you played that had super long cut scenes?
besides most people today buy games for the multiplayer parts that will keep them playing for months not the story they play once and move on. I buy games like skyrim/fallout for stores and compain. I buy battlefield just for the fun multiplayer. gta is for stress releif, though they do tend to have ok stories.

games like last of us, uncharted, tombraider, etc. don't interest me. It's not that I might not enjoy the games. I played uncharted on the vita and loved it. its that I only play it once and paying $60 for one play is out of my budget.(got the vita uncharted free) I'll pick up last of us when its $20 or less. I'm kinda interested in far cry 4 but have already seen some things that i don't like so i'll wait for it to go down in price too. I get most my games later when they are cheaper.

what you find easy I find hard. I never have beat a tombraider game or games like them.


For cutscenes, it's not that they're super long... it's that they exist at all. And typically, many games that use any, probably use alot. The days of stories being told via text boxes.... which I could read at my own speedy pace, rather than having to wait for some voice actor to say it very slowly... are unfortunately over, and with it my giving a damn about story stuff is also over. And some games really do have LONG ones (RPGs of any sort at all). Or just loooooooong talky bits. Just... ugh.

...........
As for difficulty, you might want to just try other genres. I find lots of games easy that many find to be insanely hard, but for example, I'm bloody HORRIBLE at FPS games. Absolutely freaking terrible. If there's a team of players that REALLY just loves losing, adding me to the team will help them accomplish that goal, over and over and over again. Something like Tomb Raider, I wouldnt even bother with. Looks dull, probably has stealth (nothing more boring than stealth as far as I'm concerned).[/quote]

I hate hate hate text boxes in games. i am not fast/great reader so they are super annoying.
I like stealth missions half the time. I don't like games will its all stealth and you get spotted the mission is failed. but a lot of the missions in watch dog i did with silencers and it was fun. I loved sneaking around and one shot killing people with my bow in skyrim.

I think what it comes down to is we just aren't the same type of gamers.



sly279
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23 Oct 2014, 2:19 pm

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:
Games were simply better before the mid 2000s. Developers actually put pride into making fun, polished products instead of just trying to rush crap out the door and leech people's wallets for more profits. The indie scene is a nice antidote to all the BS from the mainstream publishers and developers, but it's not a perfect replacement for how things used to be.

Anyway, my least favorite trends in modern gaming include:

- Overuse of cutscenes, dialog, and scripted events
- Games released to retail in a borderline "beta" state, requiring numerous patches
- DLC and other microtransaction BS
- Yearly iterations of popular franchises (Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, etc.)
- DRM on PC games
- Artstyles that don't change from game to game; every popular game nowadays seems to have this dull pseudo-photorealistic look
- The excessive amount of hype attached to new releases
- The whole "free to play" model which should really be called "pay to win"
- Games that clone one another; FPSs copy Call of Duty, open-world games copy GTA or Assassin's Creed, MMORPGs copy World of Warcraft, etc.
- The level of linearity in modern single player FPSs. What happened to being able to explore sprawling levels, like on DooM or Goldeneye?


i like games now adays more then i did pre 2000 games. so boo.
cod copies other fps games and they copy cod. when one does something good then the others will add that to their next game. cod added a cheap version of revolution from battlefield, they also tried to copy destructibility from bf4. battlefield took hardcore from cod. which is good I hate regular battlefield and so hated battlefield games pre bad company. and battlefield comes out every 2-3 years and each time has gotten better. like adding select fire control so i can use simi to get better long range shots. i'm way better at bf then cod.

gta is still the best usually. i enjoy saints row games cause they brought coop which is something I always wanted in gta but still don't get. watchdogs was a interesting try, but they failed to adopt good parts of gta and did their own thing which for me has mad the game a one time play through type.

i guess I shouldn't bother to read this part of the forum anymore, seems most aspies prefer non consle games or games from the past. :( just another one of my interest i can't share.



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24 Oct 2014, 1:07 pm

SabbraCadabra wrote:
Lace-Bane wrote:
Though I imagine the tradeoff is paying a lot more for the upkeep of the PC, and less to upkeep the library of games over the years, rather than re-buying the games over and over on cheaper consoles that come out every eight or so years... so maybe I wouldn't.


Not really. If you don't go for the cheapest hardware available, you can put off upgrades for quite a few years...maybe even longer than a console cycle. And even consoles are starting to get pretty expensive.

You can go back a few years and get new or used hardware for decent prices, though video cards are stupid pricey right now. PCs are getting killed off by Microsoft switching to tablets, and id Software isn't around anymore to push hardware further, so I'm not even sure how many upgrades will be required in the future.

I'll take note of that, thank you.

As far as tablets replacing PCs, that sounds a lot like my discomfort of where technology seems to be taking TV sets. It seems like pretty soon, TVs will just be a sheet of glass to be mounted on the wall with no places to plug in anything and possess an irreplaceable battery, because everything seems to be aspiring to be wireless and disposable... which would make any gaming console that wasn't two minutes old obsolete.

Edit: Removed aimless ramble



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24 Oct 2014, 11:32 pm

Lace-Bane wrote:
It seems like pretty soon, TVs will just be a sheet of glass to be mounted on the wall...


Even worse... https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ke ... st-homepod


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Lace-Bane
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25 Oct 2014, 12:49 am

SabbraCadabra wrote:
Lace-Bane wrote:
It seems like pretty soon, TVs will just be a sheet of glass to be mounted on the wall...


Even worse... https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ke ... st-homepod

Thankfully, it looks like it's fatal flaw is that it cannot climb stairs.

That, and I can think of too many other reasons at a glance as to why it wouldn't work in any American home I've been in for the last 27 years.



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25 Oct 2014, 3:52 am

Another weird thing is that developers assume everyone has a smartphone or something now. I tried playing through Fez a few weeks ago, was getting along with it and having fun, but then suddenly there's a puzzle with a QR code in it? What the f**k am I going to do with that? Am I just unable to complete this game now? Spoiler: I cheated and looked online. But still, they're designing games now to interact with your phone, even non-video games with remote controlled devices are being controlled by phones. I wouldn't want a smartphone for any other reason, I hate having to charge them constantly, let me do everything from my laptop at the least, stop trying to drag me down with this so-called 'casual' market.

Does anyone else here play games sometimes because of how broken they are? I loved Oblivion, but all my time with Skyrim has just been about trying to break it, I love to do everything a game doesn't want me to do just to see what happens and it turns out Skyrim reacts pretty poorly to it, which I love. I wish they brought back static paintbrushes, arrow cloning and 1 second level 60 frenzy spells though.

Did anyone here ever play Banjo and Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts? Easy to miss because it wasn't a platformer, but that game had tons of game-breaking potential (doing big challenges in under a second etc.).



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25 Oct 2014, 8:55 am

I don't use tablets or smartphones either. I still have a PC and a standard TV with an RF hookup so I can keep playing on my older systems. But I must admit, the PS2 sure looks good hooked up to a high-definition TV.

The Dreamcast is one of the most flexible systems ever made as far as hookups go. You can play it on an old RF unit, a standard AV cord, s-video, OR a VGA adaptor that can connect to a computer monitor or hi-def TV, which ramps up the graphics to Xbox 360 territory. Pretty cool if you can get it to work for you.

John_Dinner wrote:
Does anyone else here play games sometimes because of how broken they are?

Sometimes. I like to dominate Champions of Norrath by importing a level 1 character into a Tower of Clouds game, finishing off the Cloud Giant King and gaining a few dozen levels instantly.


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25 Oct 2014, 5:06 pm

Evil_Chuck wrote:
But I must admit, the PS2 sure looks good hooked up to a high-definition TV.


Maybe I was just testing the wrong games, but I was pretty unimpressed with PS2 through component video...everything was pretty blurry, and it seemed like the framerate dropped a bit as well. Not sure how many games even take advantage of progressive scan and/or widescreen.


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29 Oct 2014, 12:02 am

SabbraCadabra wrote:
Evil_Chuck wrote:
But I must admit, the PS2 sure looks good hooked up to a high-definition TV.


Maybe I was just testing the wrong games, but I was pretty unimpressed with PS2 through component video...everything was pretty blurry, and it seemed like the framerate dropped a bit as well. Not sure how many games even take advantage of progressive scan and/or widescreen.


This is what I found as well when I tried the same thing on my flatscreen with Tomb Raider: Legend. The PS2 is just not well-suited to flatscreens, and neither are most pre-Xbox 360 consoles.



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01 Nov 2014, 10:03 am

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:
The PS2 is just not well-suited to flatscreens, and neither are most pre-Xbox 360 consoles.


I don't know, I found a few XBox games that looked good in component video (there's even a small handful that support HD), and I thought GameCube looked great in component (via Wii, obviously...I can't afford a GC component cable).

Dreamcast is supposed to look awesome through VGA, but I've never bothered getting a VGA box, and I have doubts about the mod.


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02 Nov 2014, 6:50 am

SabbraCadabra wrote:
Evil_Chuck wrote:
But I must admit, the PS2 sure looks good hooked up to a high-definition TV.


Maybe I was just testing the wrong games, but I was pretty unimpressed with PS2 through component video...everything was pretty blurry, and it seemed like the framerate dropped a bit as well. Not sure how many games even take advantage of progressive scan and/or widescreen.

I'm not sure either. All I know is that my two-TV setup looks pretty good to me and I don't dare mess with it, after trying out several modern cables and connections that didn't work at all. The old standard TV I have the Dreamcast hooked up to doesn't support A/V, so I have to stick with RF. My only hope for seeing that system in higher quality is to hook it up to the flatscreen instead, which so far doesn't work because while it has the A/V, the system just isn't connecting. Nothing appears on the screen, whereas the PS2 has no problem. And I can't try a different channel because I don't even have the remote for that new TV. It was lost years before I moved here, which means I'd have to buy a universal remote and tear my hair out getting THAT to work, and it just goes on and on. :roll:

Everything is just way too complicated now. It's tremendously frustrating to deal with and I've reached a point where I can't adapt to any more changes. On the plus side though, I'm not picky. A Dreamcast in standard definition still looks pretty awesome to me!


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FUNNY DEATH METAL LYRICS OF THE WEEK: 'DEMON'S WIND' BY VADER
Clammy frog descends
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Join the undead, that's the place you'll never leave
You wanna die... but death cannot do us apart...


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02 Nov 2014, 10:48 pm

SabbraCadabra wrote:
mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:
The PS2 is just not well-suited to flatscreens, and neither are most pre-Xbox 360 consoles.


I don't know, I found a few XBox games that looked good in component video (there's even a small handful that support HD), and I thought GameCube looked great in component (via Wii, obviously...I can't afford a GC component cable).

Dreamcast is supposed to look awesome through VGA, but I've never bothered getting a VGA box, and I have doubts about the mod.


This is what I've found as well, the original Xbox fares better than most pre-360 consoles in this respect, and so do the few Gamecube games that support component output.

I've never tried the Dreamcast VGA box though, mainly because I've never owned a Dreamcast. :P Sure would love to some day, it seems like it was an awesome console. Can you imagine what it would be like today if Sega didn't pull out of the console market?