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Dox47
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22 Oct 2014, 9:39 pm

sonofghandi wrote:
For funsies, you should Google some of the things the Republicans were demanding in terms of healthcare reform prior to Obama. I find it amusing that Bill O'Reilly used to advocate for every single aspect of the ACA right up to a few months before the 2008 election while Democrats were blasting him for it at the same time.


You can have a similar kind of fun looking at all the things Democrats were against when Bush did them, but are just fine with Obama doing. I really wish more people would acknowledge how similar the two presidencies actually have been, it's like Ken vs Ryu in the old Street Fighter games.


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23 Oct 2014, 9:49 am

Bill Oreilly was for the affordable care act? Seriously, I did not know that!
However, I know that the public is overwhelmingly for each part of the ACA but against Obamacare! 8O It is amazing how stupid the American public is!


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23 Oct 2014, 11:07 pm

Make me president I would legalize weed on a national and federal level for recreational use! I would also replace gasoline with biofuels equivelent to 91 octane hence no longer being involved in the middle east! i would also send the troops to Mexico to kill off the drug cartel and help out our neighbors to the south and hence curving illegal immigration on a national scale. Healthcare will be paid for by our tax dollars and not cost us our wages visiting the doctor or dentist!I would make route 66 our own Autobahn I would also strongly encourage scientific research and not religious crap! College tuition would also be paid for by tax dollars hence lowering college costs and more people will beable to obtain degrees without being priced out of college!And Americans will retain their right to bear arms!


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24 Oct 2014, 10:59 am

AspieOtaku wrote:
Make me president I would legalize weed on a national and federal level for recreational use!

I'll vote for that! :D

Quote:
I would also replace gasoline with biofuels equivelent to 91 octane hence no longer being involved in the middle east!

We have plenty of our own oil right here in the US. Our involvement in the middle east over oil is all unnecessary BS.

Quote:
i would also send the troops to Mexico to kill off the drug cartel and help out our neighbors to the south and hence curving illegal immigration on a national scale.

Better to incite the populace down there to fix their own issues. Any US military involvement should be very limited and only on a deniable clandestine special ops level. Remember, we tried to fix Iraq.

Quote:
Healthcare will be paid for by our tax dollars and not cost us our wages visiting the doctor or dentist!

The conservaive in me says that an individual's healthcare is not within the role of government .
That aside, the government of the United States is too incompetent for such a huge endeavour. They would make a bureaucratic whorehouse out of it that would piss away taxpayer money by the boxcar full in "administrative costs" alone. The people actually served by it (or call them victims of it :roll: ) would only be a consequential byproduct of all the bureaucratic skullduggery, interdepartmental tribal conflicts, and policy inconsistencies. After all the the big pharma companies would still get fat off of the system. The best time for the US to have gone to a real no s**t national healthcare system would have been from the 1930's to the 1960's or so. It would still be overly bureaucratic like anything government but it would have been established and at least most of the major bugs worked out before health care would have become the excessively greedy industry it has.

Quote:
I would make route 66 our own Autobahn

There are better freeways already in existence than 66 has ever been.

Quote:
I would also strongly encourage scientific research and not religious crap!

Science already is strongly encouraged. It's just that the left won't stop bashing religion (or we could just be honest and replace the word religion with Christianity since the left turns a blind eye to all but Christianity) until every place of Christian worship is leveled, every cross destroyed, and every bible burned.

Quote:
College tuition would also be paid for by tax dollars hence lowering college costs and more people will beable to obtain degrees without being priced out of college!

I know I could be advocating government intervention (meddling) but the problem is greed driven price which we might want to consider mandatory price capping (the conservative in me is cringing) of tuition and book costs. The same could be done for healthcare.

Quote:
And Americans will retain their right to bear arms!

We already do have the right. It' just happens to be a right that comes under attack via interpretation of the constitution by those who claim to be on the side of civil rights.


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24 Oct 2014, 10:04 pm

RichardJ wrote:
wittgenstein wrote:
Bush was far worse than Obama,
http://www.netrootsmass.net/hughs-bush-scandals-list/
Obama saved the economy after Bush and his deregulation destroyed it.
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2014/08/ ... ent-obama/
Yes, the numbers are not perfect but reflect continued growth. Remember , we were/are coming out of a depression. Also remember that the great depression took over a decade to get out of. We are at only 6 years!
However, Obama did continue with the patriot act and special treatment for the wall street criminals and banks.


You say that Bush caused the recession, I disagree, Woodrow Wilson is the cause of of both the Great Depression and this recession. He signed one of the most misguided progressive policies, the Federal Reserve act. The Federal Reserve(fed) has allowed government to have too much control of the economy which every time there is a boom they fail to slow economic growth as to stop a crash and subsequent bust. It has also contributed to monster inflation. Nixon has also greatly contributed by completely untying the US Dollar to gold, a constant. The effects of Nixon's law contributed to the Dollar loosing half of its value between 1970 and 1980.
I do however agree with you on the fact of the Patriot act and the Prism program.

I don't like either party but I believe the better of the two is the GOP. I favor the tea party or the US Taxpayers party more and am at most conservative of the conservatives. A strong believer in lasse-fare.
The presidents I believe we're the best were John Tyler and Chester A. Arthur, they did what was best for the country not what their respective parties wanted. Another contender would be Warren G. Harding, he did his best as he could do. The scandles associated with him he didn't even know of.

You mean the irrational party. They deny global warming is happening beside the scientific consensus, the say CO2 is "plant food" to justify the building of coal plants (Which show a simplistic "black and white" mentality.), the say that free market would regulate itself (Do they have proof of that?), they are against all reglulations that would protect workers and environments. They also believe in the "trickle-down economics" even though ancient history show that it's ridiculous. Or modern history for that matter.

http://www.businessinsider.com/history-of-tax-rates-2012-5?op=1

(Fifteen years of prosperity under a top tax rate of 91%; something that is considered impossible by the modern GOP. Yet it happened.)
[img][800:678]http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/4e1c5b08ccd1d50779000000-1200/lets-begin-with-a-look-at-the-top-income-tax-bracket-since-the-federal-income-tax-was-started-in-1913-as-you-can-see-relative-to-history-its-currently-very-low.jpg[/img]



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24 Oct 2014, 10:34 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Pretty crappy, but hardly the worst. I might go so far as the most dishonest in my lifetime, as everything about him seems to have been a lie, but certainly not the worst of all time.


Yeah, I mean seriously guys:

Franklin Pierce- One of the main culprits in starting the Civil War. He saw the abolitionist movement as a fundamental threat to the unity of the nation and signed the Kansas-Nebraska Act as well as the Fugitive Slave Act.
LBJ
Nixon
Andrew Johnson- Took over after Lincoln and out of spite for the South he exacted heavy penalties on them instead of rebuilding extremely important cities like Atlanta. Thanks for helping to create the KKK, Mr. President.
Andrew Jackson- Ever heard of the Trail of Tears?

So let's see... Financial troubles? Not even everyone agrees on that issue? Doesn't matter much now how much bad this president does once the oil boom is in full swing. Five states are already really feeling it and soon enough Saudi Arabia will be out of oil (just read about it, they're pretty worried already), and surprise surprise folks we'll have the upper hand.

We can always rebound in the predictable future because regardless of what happens with currency we have the most natural resources of any country in the world, even more than Canada (which has massive untapped resources as it is an even larger and unspoiled country than the United States), China, or Russia. And in spite of some instability in the world- when have things ever been stable- the U.S. still has the most political sway of any country and it's obvious that no one else can mobilize more different countries to a goal, even other 800 pound gorillas like Russia (which admittedly has more sway in Iran). So we've bought a lot of bonds from China. We've spent gobs of money everywhere and we've also borrowed a lot over the last forty years. In the foreign arena though, especially with China, they are buying political favors, not playing the loan shark. Who's going to collect and why? That would be sheer insanity and everyone knows it.

If we can blow over financial issues like that, whoever is at fault and however much better or worse it is getting is irrelevant. So... in that light it's a whole lot worse if a president passes something like the Fugitive Slave Act or forcibly deports native citizens: they were born in a U.S. territory, by constitutional law that means that they were entitled to choose either to be U.S. nationals or citizens. Obama's scandals look pretty minor compared to forcibly deporting an entire demographic of U.S. citizens.


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24 Oct 2014, 10:47 pm

Raptor wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
Make me president I would legalize weed on a national and federal level for recreational use!

I'll vote for that! :D

Quote:
I would also replace gasoline with biofuels equivelent to 91 octane hence no longer being involved in the middle east!

We have plenty of our own oil right here in the US. Our involvement in the middle east over oil is all unnecessary BS.

Quote:
i would also send the troops to Mexico to kill off the drug cartel and help out our neighbors to the south and hence curving illegal immigration on a national scale.

Better to incite the populace down there to fix their own issues. Any US military involvement should be very limited and only on a deniable clandestine special ops level. Remember, we tried to fix Iraq.

Quote:
Healthcare will be paid for by our tax dollars and not cost us our wages visiting the doctor or dentist!

The conservaive in me says that an individual's healthcare is not within the role of government .
That aside, the government of the United States is too incompetent for such a huge endeavour. They would make a bureaucratic whorehouse out of it that would piss away taxpayer money by the boxcar full in "administrative costs" alone. The people actually served by it (or call them victims of it :roll: ) would only be a consequential byproduct of all the bureaucratic skullduggery, interdepartmental tribal conflicts, and policy inconsistencies. After all the the big pharma companies would still get fat off of the system. The best time for the US to have gone to a real no s**t national healthcare system would have been from the 1930's to the 1960's or so. It would still be overly bureaucratic like anything government but it would have been established and at least most of the major bugs worked out before health care would have become the excessively greedy industry it has.

Quote:
I would make route 66 our own Autobahn

There are better freeways already in existence than 66 has ever been.

Quote:
I would also strongly encourage scientific research and not religious crap!

Science already is strongly encouraged. It's just that the left won't stop bashing religion (or we could just be honest and replace the word religion with Christianity since the left turns a blind eye to all but Christianity) until every place of Christian worship is leveled, every cross destroyed, and every bible burned.

Quote:
College tuition would also be paid for by tax dollars hence lowering college costs and more people will beable to obtain degrees without being priced out of college!

I know I could be advocating government intervention (meddling) but the problem is greed driven price which we might want to consider mandatory price capping (the conservative in me is cringing) of tuition and book costs. The same could be done for healthcare.

Quote:
And Americans will retain their right to bear arms!

We already do have the right. It' just happens to be a right that comes under attack via interpretation of the constitution by those who claim to be on the side of civil rights.
I would also encourage Automotive indusstries to bring back long and forgotten muscle cars like the Chevelle the Nova, the Maveric then Bel Air the Fairlaine the Road Runner and Super Bird! Also Bring back the Thunderbird as well hehe!


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Lukecash12
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24 Oct 2014, 10:55 pm

Tollorin wrote:
RichardJ wrote:
wittgenstein wrote:
Bush was far worse than Obama,
http://www.netrootsmass.net/hughs-bush-scandals-list/
Obama saved the economy after Bush and his deregulation destroyed it.
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2014/08/ ... ent-obama/
Yes, the numbers are not perfect but reflect continued growth. Remember , we were/are coming out of a depression. Also remember that the great depression took over a decade to get out of. We are at only 6 years!
However, Obama did continue with the patriot act and special treatment for the wall street criminals and banks.


You say that Bush caused the recession, I disagree, Woodrow Wilson is the cause of of both the Great Depression and this recession. He signed one of the most misguided progressive policies, the Federal Reserve act. The Federal Reserve(fed) has allowed government to have too much control of the economy which every time there is a boom they fail to slow economic growth as to stop a crash and subsequent bust. It has also contributed to monster inflation. Nixon has also greatly contributed by completely untying the US Dollar to gold, a constant. The effects of Nixon's law contributed to the Dollar loosing half of its value between 1970 and 1980.
I do however agree with you on the fact of the Patriot act and the Prism program.

I don't like either party but I believe the better of the two is the GOP. I favor the tea party or the US Taxpayers party more and am at most conservative of the conservatives. A strong believer in lasse-fare.
The presidents I believe we're the best were John Tyler and Chester A. Arthur, they did what was best for the country not what their respective parties wanted. Another contender would be Warren G. Harding, he did his best as he could do. The scandles associated with him he didn't even know of.

You mean the irrational party. They deny global warming is happening beside the scientific consensus, the say CO2 is "plant food" to justify the building of coal plants (Which show a simplistic "black and white" mentality.), the say that free market would regulate itself (Do they have proof of that?), they are against all reglulations that would protect workers and environments. They also believe in the "trickle-down economics" even though ancient history show that it's ridiculous. Or modern history for that matter.

http://www.businessinsider.com/history-of-tax-rates-2012-5?op=1

(Fifteen years of prosperity under a top tax rate of 91%; something that is considered impossible by the modern GOP. Yet it happened.)
[img][800:678]http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/4e1c5b08ccd1d50779000000-1200/lets-begin-with-a-look-at-the-top-income-tax-bracket-since-the-federal-income-tax-was-started-in-1913-as-you-can-see-relative-to-history-its-currently-very-low.jpg[/img]


Were you alive during WWII? Did you live in the US? People worked in coal and lead mines and made bombs while their sons went off to die like an animal on some god forsaken island like Iwo Jima. It was an emergency wartime tax and there were seven different bond tours, so as you can imagine people were pretty short on cash. Some lived a decent agrarian life. Most others were either part of the war machine or were too young so they picked cotton like my grandfather. Sure, unemployment was low. So was the standard of living and work conditions.

The poverty line has been shifted a number of times, people, and of course there's a lot more to consider when we look at the actual lives these people led. I don't think it would have felt prosperous to me if I was my grandfather, a fifteen year old boy picking cotton while my stepfather worked in dangerous mine shafts, my mother built war ships, and my sister in law was the only one home to scrap to take care of me while I lived in a tar paper shack that was all my parents could afford for me while they were gone the majority of the time. "I" went hungry to get an education while my big brother was in Okinawa waiting for the next banzai charge. In spite of all of that hardship "I" was above the poverty line after I turned ten, until I moved out we could finally expect to eat maybe two or three times a week.

The war wasn't prosperous. America survived the war. It could have dragged on and actually destroyed the American economy, much like what happened to the Germans. The policy of total war is a two edged blade because on paper the economic numbers looked great if you didn't pay much attention to how people were really living. On the other side of the coin WWII catapulted America into the modern world and it's the primary reason America became a leading power: massive industrial development during a short period.


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Tollorin
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24 Oct 2014, 11:21 pm

Lukecash12 wrote:
Were you alive during WWII? Did you live in the US? People worked in coal and lead mines and made bombs while their sons went off to die like an animal on some god forsaken island like Iwo Jima. It was an emergency wartime tax and there were seven different bond tours, so as you can imagine people were pretty short on cash. Some lived a decent agrarian life. Most others were either part of the war machine or were too young so they picked cotton like my grandfather. Sure, unemployment was low. So was the standard of living and work conditions.

The poverty line has been shifted a number of times, people, and of course there's a lot more to consider when we look at the actual lives these people led. I don't think it would have felt prosperous to me if I was my grandfather, a fifteen year old boy picking cotton while my stepfather worked in dangerous mine shafts, my mother built war ships, and my sister in law was the only one home to scrap to take care of me while I lived in a tar paper shack that was all my parents could afford for me while they were gone the majority of the time. "I" went hungry to get an education while my big brother was in Okinawa waiting for the next banzai charge. In spite of all of that hardship "I" was above the poverty line after I turned ten, until I moved out we could finally expect to eat maybe two or three times a week.

The war wasn't prosperous. America survived the war. It could have dragged on and actually destroyed the American economy, much like what happened to the Germans. The policy of total war is a two edged blade because on paper the economic numbers looked great if you didn't pay much attention to how people were really living. On the other side of the coin WWII catapulted America into the modern world and it's the primary reason America became a leading power: massive industrial development during a short period.

Obviously during a total war a country must minimize the production of goods that would help standard of living as production of weapons and war machines is the prority. I was not referring to WWII though, but to the prosperity that came after it. Worth nothing that one of the main reason that the US won the Pacific war is thanks to the strength of their industry and economy, meaning that the high taxation of the wealthy didn't really handicapped them.



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25 Oct 2014, 12:13 am

AspieOtaku wrote:
Raptor wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
Make me president I would legalize weed on a national and federal level for recreational use!

I'll vote for that! :D

Quote:
I would also replace gasoline with biofuels equivelent to 91 octane hence no longer being involved in the middle east!

We have plenty of our own oil right here in the US. Our involvement in the middle east over oil is all unnecessary BS.

Quote:
i would also send the troops to Mexico to kill off the drug cartel and help out our neighbors to the south and hence curving illegal immigration on a national scale.

Better to incite the populace down there to fix their own issues. Any US military involvement should be very limited and only on a deniable clandestine special ops level. Remember, we tried to fix Iraq.

Quote:
Healthcare will be paid for by our tax dollars and not cost us our wages visiting the doctor or dentist!

The conservaive in me says that an individual's healthcare is not within the role of government .
That aside, the government of the United States is too incompetent for such a huge endeavour. They would make a bureaucratic whorehouse out of it that would piss away taxpayer money by the boxcar full in "administrative costs" alone. The people actually served by it (or call them victims of it :roll: ) would only be a consequential byproduct of all the bureaucratic skullduggery, interdepartmental tribal conflicts, and policy inconsistencies. After all the the big pharma companies would still get fat off of the system. The best time for the US to have gone to a real no s**t national healthcare system would have been from the 1930's to the 1960's or so. It would still be overly bureaucratic like anything government but it would have been established and at least most of the major bugs worked out before health care would have become the excessively greedy industry it has.

Quote:
I would make route 66 our own Autobahn

There are better freeways already in existence than 66 has ever been.

Quote:
I would also strongly encourage scientific research and not religious crap!

Science already is strongly encouraged. It's just that the left won't stop bashing religion (or we could just be honest and replace the word religion with Christianity since the left turns a blind eye to all but Christianity) until every place of Christian worship is leveled, every cross destroyed, and every bible burned.

Quote:
College tuition would also be paid for by tax dollars hence lowering college costs and more people will beable to obtain degrees without being priced out of college!

I know I could be advocating government intervention (meddling) but the problem is greed driven price which we might want to consider mandatory price capping (the conservative in me is cringing) of tuition and book costs. The same could be done for healthcare.

Quote:
And Americans will retain their right to bear arms!

We already do have the right. It' just happens to be a right that comes under attack via interpretation of the constitution by those who claim to be on the side of civil rights.
I would also encourage Automotive indusstries to bring back long and forgotten muscle cars like the Chevelle the Nova, the Maveric then Bel Air the Fairlaine the Road Runner and Super Bird! Also Bring back the Thunderbird as well hehe!


In a way they have within the past 10 years with the Mustang, Camaro, and Challenger, and probably a few others I'm forgetting at the moment. They won't go back to building exact duplicates of the originals because the safety and emissions requirements have changed.


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Lukecash12
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25 Oct 2014, 12:57 am

Tollorin wrote:
Lukecash12 wrote:
Were you alive during WWII? Did you live in the US? People worked in coal and lead mines and made bombs while their sons went off to die like an animal on some god forsaken island like Iwo Jima. It was an emergency wartime tax and there were seven different bond tours, so as you can imagine people were pretty short on cash. Some lived a decent agrarian life. Most others were either part of the war machine or were too young so they picked cotton like my grandfather. Sure, unemployment was low. So was the standard of living and work conditions.

The poverty line has been shifted a number of times, people, and of course there's a lot more to consider when we look at the actual lives these people led. I don't think it would have felt prosperous to me if I was my grandfather, a fifteen year old boy picking cotton while my stepfather worked in dangerous mine shafts, my mother built war ships, and my sister in law was the only one home to scrap to take care of me while I lived in a tar paper shack that was all my parents could afford for me while they were gone the majority of the time. "I" went hungry to get an education while my big brother was in Okinawa waiting for the next banzai charge. In spite of all of that hardship "I" was above the poverty line after I turned ten, until I moved out we could finally expect to eat maybe two or three times a week.

The war wasn't prosperous. America survived the war. It could have dragged on and actually destroyed the American economy, much like what happened to the Germans. The policy of total war is a two edged blade because on paper the economic numbers looked great if you didn't pay much attention to how people were really living. On the other side of the coin WWII catapulted America into the modern world and it's the primary reason America became a leading power: massive industrial development during a short period.

Obviously during a total war a country must minimize the production of goods that would help standard of living as production of weapons and war machines is the prority. I was not referring to WWII though, but to the prosperity that came after it. Worth nothing that one of the main reason that the US won the Pacific war is thanks to the strength of their industry and economy, meaning that the high taxation of the wealthy didn't really handicapped them.


Of course it didn't handicap them, they were contracted to make bombs, planes, and aircraft carriers. Plus like I was saying they were riding on all of the industrial development, it's well known that this country has the most natural resources. We had the resources to back up printing all of that money and we purposely inflated the market during the war. We've learned from other periods of American history that when you inflate a balloon too much it has to pop. And sure, they were able to start up great industries, but a huge chunk of all of those tax dollars went into the New Deal and F.D.R. himself considered the New Deal a failure.

Plus how about them tax rates in the 20s?


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25 Oct 2014, 1:02 am

Raptor wrote:
We have plenty of our own oil right here in the US. Our involvement in the middle east over oil is all unnecessary BS.


The conservaive .

Love that word! Yes, you are naive!
I am reduced to a tablet again (hence my many grammatical mistakes. Blame my big fat fingers! :D ) so I cannot at this moment post links. Trust me, I'll be back with them!
Suffice it to say, that the US has already reached "peak oil" (a technical term) and we are running out of oil. That is an indisputable fact.
So you think that it is sad that we should reduce pollution and conserve.
I realize that even when EVERY scientific organization in the world agrees (such as the fact that AGW exists) you prefer your intuition. However, and luckily most people prefer science to your intuition.


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25 Oct 2014, 1:07 am

Still chuckling about that word," conservaive"! :D
A clever combination of conservative and naive!
Thanks!
You convinced me that Freudian slips actually do exist.
Did you hear about the man that went to his psychiatrist and said," doc, I made the most horrible Freudian slip last night." The doc said,"tell me more."
Well, I was at my mother's house last night and I meant to say," please pass the salt." But instead I said, "you b***h you ruined my life"! !! :D


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YES! This is me!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gtdlR4rUcY
I went up over 50 feet!
I love debate!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtckVng_1a0
My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM


Lukecash12
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25 Oct 2014, 1:14 am

wittgenstein wrote:
Raptor wrote:
We have plenty of our own oil right here in the US. Our involvement in the middle east over oil is all unnecessary BS.


The conservaive .

Love that word! Yes, you are naive!
I am reduced to a tablet again (hence my many grammatical mistakes. Blame my big fat fingers! :D ) so I cannot at this moment post links. Trust me, I'll be back with them!
Suffice it to say, that the US has already reached "peak oil" (a technical term) and we are running out of oil. That is an indisputable fact.
So you think that it is sad that we should reduce pollution and conserve.
I realize that even when EVERY scientific organization in the world agrees (such as the fact that AGW exists) you prefer your intuition. However, and luckily most people prefer science to your intuition.


Considering that five states are in the middle of an oil boom right now and obviously everyone should be aware that for years and years now surveyors have not been allowed to examine quite a bit of land, including thousands and thousands of undeveloped miles, even in the deserts... Yeah I wouldn't hesitate at all to call bs there buddy. Awesome profile name by the way, I'm jealous because I loved reading wittgenstein's stuff.


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wittgenstein
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25 Oct 2014, 1:28 am

Then why fracking? That is like trying to sip up threw a straw that last centimetre of pepsi.*
Pipelines? That is like increasing the pepsi consumption by adding more straws. Sure, you will consume faster,but is that wise?
* actually a better analogy is forcing water into the glass to get those last molecules of pepsi to the surface and away from those pesky ice cubes.
PS: Thanks, Witt was the greatest philosopher of the last 100 years! Not just me says that, see the Stanford encyclopedia of philosophy. (online).


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25 Oct 2014, 1:41 am

Hey, I got Asperger's (an all purpose excuse :D ) so I cannot help but be anal. You are not jealous of me, you are envious. When I was single, I might have been envious of a guy with a gorgeous girl friend but I was not jealous. I did not think he was cheating on me! :D


_________________
YES! This is me!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gtdlR4rUcY
I went up over 50 feet!
I love debate!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtckVng_1a0
My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM