Salon: Pew; Right Wing love affair with propaganda

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khaoz
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30 Oct 2014, 4:26 am

funeralxempire
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06 Nov 2014, 6:17 pm

Anyone who's been paying attention over the past 10-15 years has noticed the US far-right is utterly unconcerned with facts or reality. The echo chamber repeats the same lies often enough and loud enough that reality doesn't matter to the echo chamber dwellers. The US far-right is infected with a collective insanity and the so-called liberal media is too afraid to call this what it is.

Even the term 'liberal media' is one of those far-right lies taken as fact. The US media has a pro-corporate bias and a pro-establishment bias but since the mainstream US media reports will repeat right-wing lies without calling them such or even questioning their veracity, to suggest these mainstream media outlets gladly repeating dishonest right-wing talking points as fact are liberal is to deny reality.


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06 Nov 2014, 6:33 pm

I strongly agree!


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06 Nov 2014, 7:25 pm

Most media skews Democrat or liberal, if you don't think you're being propagandized on CNN, MSNBC, or the NYT then I have some bad news for you. Salon the website you linked is one of the most ridiculous clickbait propaganda outlets there is. Salon is particularly damaging since they specialize in straight up race baiting, something the media in general has a special fascination of in this country. The previous poster is right about the MSM having a pro-establishment and pro-corporate bias, they're manipulated by the elite and serve their interests and whoever wins we lose. The elite hedge their bets one way or another, do you think it really mattered to them if Mitt Romney or Barack Obama won? They win either way, they're trying to do it again by setting the stage in 2016 for Hilary Clinton and Jeb Bush. It's all very sickening.



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08 Nov 2014, 8:27 am

Every time I see a Salon article, it's invariably them moaning about something. Every. Single. Time. Do they not have something better to do? Are they British?



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08 Nov 2014, 2:12 pm

The article is spot on. In comment sections in almost internet article concerning racism, more then one intensely misinformed person will spout off how it was Democrats who had started the Civil War over slavery, or had been responsible for Jim Crow and segregation, completely lost to the fact that those were conservative Democrats bearing little or no resemblance to today's liberal Dems. Or how those very same conservative southern Democrats had been more than happy to switch parties as a response to civil rights legislation. Or even how it was liberal Democrats who had championed the cause of civil rights, such as JFK and LBJ. And that ignorance would not be possible without the right's propaganda machine dulling the minds of it's adherents with it's simple, one sided soundbites.


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11 Nov 2014, 1:49 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Most media skews Democrat or liberal, if you don't think you're being propagandized on CNN, MSNBC, or the NYT then I have some bad news for you. Salon the website you linked is one of the most ridiculous clickbait propaganda outlets there is. Salon is particularly damaging since they specialize in straight up race baiting, something the media in general has a special fascination of in this country. The previous poster is right about the MSM having a pro-establishment and pro-corporate bias, they're manipulated by the elite and serve their interests and whoever wins we lose. The elite hedge their bets one way or another, do you think it really mattered to them if Mitt Romney or Barack Obama won? They win either way, they're trying to do it again by setting the stage in 2016 for Hilary Clinton and Jeb Bush. It's all very sickening.


'liberal media' would be something like Real Time with Bill Maher, or the stillborn attempt at liberal talk radio that was Air America. There really isn't a left wing equivalent unless you count something like The Nation, or Dissent, which are very niche publications and don't get nearly the kind of far-reaching audience that Fox News and talk radio get. CNN, MSNBC, NYT, NPR are merely perceived as "left-wing" because Fox News considers everything other than itself left wing. It was a very clever tactic framing themselves as centrist and everything else as to the left. People actually bought it. Lifelong democrats even bought it! They shifted the frame of reference to the right for all discourse in this country. But there is no liberal media, and if there were you'd think some people would be watching it and regurgitating its talking points. Where are these people?

Though for most of the world, and for what America was in the 60s and 70s, CNN would've been considered pretty conservative. Bear in mind this network supported the Iraq War, never mentioned the Patriot Act when it passed, glossed over many other civil rights infringements during the past two administrations.



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11 Nov 2014, 2:01 pm

Everything is propaganda unless it's backed up with objective statistics and logic.

(Pretty much anyone that's fallen for and keeps on falling for firearm control sucks the propaganda machine, for example.)



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11 Nov 2014, 4:01 pm

Vatnos wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Most media skews Democrat or liberal, if you don't think you're being propagandized on CNN, MSNBC, or the NYT then I have some bad news for you. Salon the website you linked is one of the most ridiculous clickbait propaganda outlets there is. Salon is particularly damaging since they specialize in straight up race baiting, something the media in general has a special fascination of in this country. The previous poster is right about the MSM having a pro-establishment and pro-corporate bias, they're manipulated by the elite and serve their interests and whoever wins we lose. The elite hedge their bets one way or another, do you think it really mattered to them if Mitt Romney or Barack Obama won? They win either way, they're trying to do it again by setting the stage in 2016 for Hilary Clinton and Jeb Bush. It's all very sickening.


'liberal media' would be something like Real Time with Bill Maher, or the stillborn attempt at liberal talk radio that was Air America. There really isn't a left wing equivalent unless you count something like The Nation, or Dissent, which are very niche publications and don't get nearly the kind of far-reaching audience that Fox News and talk radio get. CNN, MSNBC, NYT, NPR are merely perceived as "left-wing" because Fox News considers everything other than itself left wing. It was a very clever tactic framing themselves as centrist and everything else as to the left. People actually bought it. Lifelong democrats even bought it! They shifted the frame of reference to the right for all discourse in this country. But there is no liberal media, and if there were you'd think some people would be watching it and regurgitating its talking points. Where are these people?

Though for most of the world, and for what America was in the 60s and 70s, CNN would've been considered pretty conservative. Bear in mind this network supported the Iraq War, never mentioned the Patriot Act when it passed, glossed over many other civil rights infringements during the past two administrations.


They're all over? People regurgitate media talking points all the time, that's basically the American political experience. Usually there is some ulterior motive to the narratives that they push but bias(CNN is close to the military industrial complex) in media 100% exists, the problem you're having here is you don't like where the line between right and left it drawn which is something I pay more heed to rhetorically than as a literal division. I think the media is very pro-establishment, besides Fox they do not criticize the president to any meaningful degree and certainly not from the left wing ones that they criticized Bush from. Some of their talking points come straight from the DNC, this is evident when you read an aggregate of stories and see the same stuff in every article.

Fox News has its opinion shows and columnists but it has a separate straight news division, they'll have liberals on to argue with. MSNBC seems to mix their editorial and news together and is a complete echo chamber. Watching Chris Matthews and Rachel Maddow on election night reporting the results with their emotion on the sleeves is pretty funny. CNN is probably the most tabloid-like, focusing on big sensational events which it believes drives viewers.



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11 Nov 2014, 4:20 pm

^^^
From the clips I saw from Fox this last election, the hosts were barely able to contain their glee. So it's hardly just MSNBC. And incidentally, Michael Savage used to have a show on MSNBC, till he was fired for telling a gay caller on air that he wished he died of AIDS, while Joe Scarborough, who was a very conservative southern congressman, still has a show on that channel called Morning Joe. So it's hardly the case that MSNBC lacks political diversity.


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11 Nov 2014, 5:12 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
^^^
From the clips I saw from Fox this last election, the hosts were barely able to contain their glee. So it's hardly just MSNBC. And incidentally, Michael Savage used to have a show on MSNBC, till he was fired for telling a gay caller on air that he wished he died of AIDS, while Joe Scarborough, who was a very conservative southern congressman, still has a show on that channel called Morning Joe. So it's hardly the case that MSNBC lacks political diversity.


MSNBC more than 10 years ago isn't the same as it is now obviously, it was actually at one time the cable news channel I liked the most. They also had Jesse Ventura for a short amount of time. That started changing around time Tim Russert died and the 2008 election, it has gotten progressively(hey a pun) worse since then. Mind you I don' watch cable news or even have cable but the Fox seems pretty straight forward with its biases(Hannity isn't a newsman) and is more apt to have someone defending opposing viewpoints. MSNBC use to have Pat Buchanan before they fired him for being Pat Buchanan, I think they just had to him just to be scare the liberals lol. All that is there now is Scarborough and Scarborough the congressman more than 10 years ago and Scarborough the MSNBC host are two different things, there are a lot of people that have had the knives out for Joe too even with meager Republican defenses.

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11 Nov 2014, 5:49 pm

MSNBC is biased in the direction of the Democratic Party establishment, but this isn't the same as having a left-wing bias. The Democratic Party establishment is only left-wing from an extreme far-right perspective.
MSNBC has just as much love for corporocracy as the other mainstream media outlets. They spew the same pro-war rhetoric as the other mainstream media outlets. They're just as willing to accept the erosion of civil liberties as other mainstream media.

When it comes to some social issues MSNBC go out of their way to appear to be fighting the good fight.
When it comes to real, pressing, existential issues that people who identify with left-wing politics are motivated by MSNBC take the establishment line and won't tolerate their staff questioning it.


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11 Nov 2014, 7:09 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
MSNBC is biased in the direction of the Democratic Party establishment, but this isn't the same as having a left-wing bias. The Democratic Party establishment is only left-wing from an extreme far-right perspective.
MSNBC has just as much love for corporocracy as the other mainstream media outlets. They spew the same pro-war rhetoric as the other mainstream media outlets. They're just as willing to accept the erosion of civil liberties as other mainstream media.

When it comes to some social issues MSNBC go out of their way to appear to be fighting the good fight.
When it comes to real, pressing, existential issues that people who identify with left-wing politics are motivated by MSNBC take the establishment line and won't tolerate their staff questioning it.


It's all establishment for sure, MSNBC use to talk a better game when Bush was president and now they find themselves dismissing or even defending those same issues they use to fight against. I remember use to like watching Keith Olbermann tear apart Bush but where has he gone now with Obama? Back to baseball lol. It's all partisan garbage, team red and team blue. I don't really like the idea of a left-right political spectrum, I don't feel I fit into it. We're probably pretty closer than you'd imagine on issues of civil liberties and war even we probably diverge elsewhere.

Some try to put guys like Ron Paul on the far right and Fox News never gave him fair coverage either. It's kind of like how the GOP talks a good game on fiscal restraint and adhering to the constitution then just pisses all over it when they call for war or plead for amnesty. I certainly don't associate my views with Fox News but I do recognize that Fox News has biases towards the establishment of the Republican party. I haven't watched Fox News in a while now but the constant fellatiating of guys like Chris Christie or Rick Santorum or Jeb Bush made my eyes bleed.

I actually don't mind certain Dems like Dennis Kucinich or my former Senator Russ Feingold but look at the support they got compared to Hilary Clinton or John Kerry, Kucinich is basically considered a crazy person. I have a lot of respect for Ralph Nader who while not a Dem most would put on the left but is almost universally held in disdain by partisan Democrats. Barack Obama pretended to be a guy from the Kucinich or Feingold mold but he quite obviously is a bold faced liar.

The establishment sucks, all around. They're not too different, not much changes from administration to administration. Our civil liberties get eroded, we wage aggressive war, we go deep and deeper into debt. The differences are superficial, it's just a dog and pony show.



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11 Nov 2014, 8:21 pm

>using a gawker article as a source of information for anything.



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11 Nov 2014, 8:28 pm

Jacoby wrote:
It's all establishment for sure, MSNBC use to talk a better game when Bush was president and now they find themselves dismissing or even defending those same issues they use to fight against. I remember use to like watching Keith Olbermann tear apart Bush but where has he gone now with Obama? Back to baseball lol. It's all partisan garbage, team red and team blue. I don't really like the idea of a left-right political spectrum, I don't feel I fit into it. We're probably pretty closer than you'd imagine on issues of civil liberties and war even we probably diverge elsewhere.


This (underlined) wouldn't surprise me. I play the game Nationstates off and on, and on the General forum the 'anti-statist' left and right blocs have finally began to realize a significant portion of them argue for similar ideals, sometimes even in areas they wouldn't really think they're similar. Similar to this, some of the more social democratic and progressive minded folks and the more libertarian/classical liberal minded people have come to realize that they occupy similar stances in regards to civil liberties, even if they differ on other issues.

Once you step out of approaching politics from the standpoint of teams you're almost immediately forced to realize you may have political allies all over the place, including sometimes ones who appear to be or are presented as more extreme than you may perceive yourself to be.

If you're familiar with Cenk Uygyr's WOLF-PAC group, they've worked with both libertarian leaning Tea Party identified groups and Occupy identified progressive groups regarding Citizens United and related decisions. Regardless of what your take on that issue, clearly it seems to be one that breaks the left-right way of thinking.

Jacoby wrote:
Some try to put guys like Ron Paul on the far right and Fox News never gave him fair coverage either. It's kind of like how the GOP talks a good game on fiscal restraint and adhering to the constitution then just pisses all over it when they call for war or plead for amnesty. I certainly don't associate my views with Fox News but I do recognize that Fox News has biases towards the establishment of the Republican party. I haven't watched Fox News in a while now but the constant fellatiating of guys like Chris Christie or Rick Santorum or Jeb Bush made my eyes bleed.

I actually don't mind certain Dems like Dennis Kucinich or my former Senator Russ Feingold but look at the support they got compared to Hilary Clinton or John Kerry, Kucinich is basically considered a crazy person. I have a lot of respect for Ralph Nader who while not a Dem most would put on the left but is almost universally held in disdain by partisan Democrats. Barack Obama pretended to be a guy from the Kucinich or Feingold mold but he quite obviously is a bold faced liar.


I'll agree with all of this. Kucinich, Sanders and Feingold and Nader are among the visible 'leftists' (as opposed to members of the Democratic party) and they're largely reviled and mocked by the media. They're used as examples of 'out of touch with mainstream America' even though if you ask people on an issue by issue basis they often agree more with the ideas of people in this mould than they do with either mainstream Democratic or Republican thinking. You often get more acceptance of at least some of the ideas pushed by the so called 'fringe left' among the so-called 'fringe right' than by the mainstream right because a lot of the political centre ends up agreeing on issues that serve statist interests (and so progressing there) while disagreeing on other issues (and failing to progress there). It ends up being one fringe, the other or both that have to rein things in eventually. I realize there's more than one left and right fringe, but not when the mainstream media is talking about it.

Regarding Obama, I notice the biggest criticism I hear of him from US progressives is the exact one you give, he pretended to be someone of the progressive left but ended up being John Kerry with less charisma and spine. Most of the policies he criticized Bush for he ended up continuing. The Bush-era tax cuts were made permanent under Obama, since he gave the issue cover. For as much as the right-wing media likes to characterize Obama as far-left, policy wise he seems to mostly likes to use his influence against the progressives in his own party. But if you repeat Kenyan socialist enough it resonates.

Jacoby wrote:
The establishment sucks, all around. They're not too different, not much changes from administration to administration. Our civil liberties get eroded, we wage aggressive war, we go deep and deeper into debt. The differences are superficial, it's just a dog and pony show.


I'll agree with this for the most part. Since most of them are bought it doesn't matter which ones are elected, they do what their lobbyists tell them to do.


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11 Nov 2014, 10:43 pm

I'm a proud right-winger here (and in the minority).

The fact is that the left loves propaganda. Their whole worldview is predicated on the false notion that believing something is 'good' makes it so. Hence horrendous policies like forced busing, redistributive tax policies, government-mandated healthcare and job crushing regulations get enacted. The left's love affair with less freedom has been a recurrent theme since the '30s. This election, real Americans gave a resounding NO to the Obama, Reid, Pelosi agenda.