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PlainsAspie
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13 Oct 2014, 4:24 pm

Feralucce wrote:
themanfromuranus wrote:
medical "experts" are our enemies, they are a bunch of idiots play god , i watched parenthood, this is as worse as doing a hate film about autists


I've kept quiet about this... but I can't anymore... An US vs THEM attitude only hurts us... not them... BELIEVE IT OR NOT, they want to help.


"Medical experts" in psychiatry are as heterogenous in their viewpoints as autistic people. There are bad apples like that Sanders guy and all the psychoanalysts in France, but there's also psychiatrists with very progressive, even anti-cure pro-acceptance attitudes. I can totally sympathize with themanfromuranus in that I think we've all dealt with our share of people who tried to make us feel ashamed of who we are, but I think labeling all Psychiatrists as enemies is misguided



VioletYoshi
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13 Oct 2014, 11:12 pm

andrethemoogle wrote:
I think for a character with Asperger's, you should try to find an actor/actress who actually has it, or someone who has AS but is capable of performing a role for the first time.


Matthew Grey Gubler doesn't have Asperger's, but his portrayal of Reid who does seems really accurate to me.

It's been awhile but I remember an ad that put me off watching Parenthood, the way they talked about Max having a girlfriend or his first time in that syrupy voice people use while saying things like, "BABY TOOK HIS FIRST STEP!" I hate being infantilized, while hypocritically would love to baby the heck out of Reid. Yes I know, he was a male model, and is ridiculously good looking. I waned to say that before anyone mentioned he raised the bar for being a good looking Aspie too high.



themanfromuranus
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14 Oct 2014, 12:52 am

PlainsAspie wrote:
Feralucce wrote:
themanfromuranus wrote:
medical "experts" are our enemies, they are a bunch of idiots play god , i watched parenthood, this is as worse as doing a hate film about autists


I've kept quiet about this... but I can't anymore... An US vs THEM attitude only hurts us... not them... BELIEVE IT OR NOT, they want to help.


"Medical experts" in psychiatry are as heterogenous in their viewpoints as autistic people. There are bad apples like that Sanders guy and all the psychoanalysts in France, but there's also psychiatrists with very progressive, even anti-cure pro-acceptance attitudes. I can totally sympathize with themanfromuranus in that I think we've all dealt with our share of people who tried to make us feel ashamed of who we are, but I think labeling all Psychiatrists as enemies is misguided
thanks for your support , my friend :D . and to feralucce, it wasnt aspergians vs NTs it was us vs curists , who does try to hurt us, not help us, this "experts " are the lowest of the lowest



riley
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14 Oct 2014, 7:00 am

PlainsAspie wrote:
Feralucce wrote:
themanfromuranus wrote:
medical "experts" are our enemies, they are a bunch of idiots play god , i watched parenthood, this is as worse as doing a hate film about autists


I've kept quiet about this... but I can't anymore... An US vs THEM attitude only hurts us... not them... BELIEVE IT OR NOT, they want to help.


"Medical experts" in psychiatry are as heterogenous in their viewpoints as autistic people. There are bad apples like that Sanders guy and all the psychoanalysts in France, but there's also psychiatrists with very progressive, even anti-cure pro-acceptance attitudes. I can totally sympathize with themanfromuranus in that I think we've all dealt with our share of people who tried to make us feel ashamed of who we are, but I think labeling all Psychiatrists as enemies is misguided


Sorry but you kind of require one to get diagnosed with ASD in the first place. If you say they have no credibility when it comes to autism then their expertise when diagnosing ASD has no credibility either and should not be accepted by those who don't respect them. Can't have it both ways.



Last edited by riley on 14 Oct 2014, 7:12 am, edited 2 times in total.

riley
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14 Oct 2014, 7:07 am

Feralucce wrote:
I've kept quiet about this... but I can't anymore... An US vs THEM attitude only hurts us... not them... BELIEVE IT OR NOT, they want to help.


Thankyou. I thought the ASD culture may have changed by now but I find the "autism enemies" attitudes scary. It is difficult enough in every day life not fitting in but when there is a real risk of being maligned as one of "them" well I may as well be back in high school.



PlainsAspie
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14 Oct 2014, 11:59 am

riley wrote:
PlainsAspie wrote:
Feralucce wrote:
themanfromuranus wrote:
medical "experts" are our enemies, they are a bunch of idiots play god , i watched parenthood, this is as worse as doing a hate film about autists


I've kept quiet about this... but I can't anymore... An US vs THEM attitude only hurts us... not them... BELIEVE IT OR NOT, they want to help.


"Medical experts" in psychiatry are as heterogenous in their viewpoints as autistic people. There are bad apples like that Sanders guy and all the psychoanalysts in France, but there's also psychiatrists with very progressive, even anti-cure pro-acceptance attitudes. I can totally sympathize with themanfromuranus in that I think we've all dealt with our share of people who tried to make us feel ashamed of who we are, but I think labeling all Psychiatrists as enemies is misguided


Sorry but you kind of require one to get diagnosed with ASD in the first place. If you say they have no credibility when it comes to autism then their expertise when diagnosing ASD has no credibility either and should not be accepted by those who don't respect them. Can't have it both ways.


I have no idea how you got that I don't trust the credibility of psychs out of that, but it's to at all what aI said



MadHatterMatador
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31 Oct 2014, 12:00 am

A few things:

If you're writing an AS character, and you make sure he exhibits enough of the diagnostic criteria relatively frequently, you've made an accurate portrayal, as far as I'm concerned.

Max didn't know he was autistic. That's not the same as not knowing he was different.

They don't let him get away with things. They work on a system of reward for good behavior rather than punishment for bad behavior. This is a completely valid approach by most psychologists' standards. Even still, Zeek frequently tells them they need to discipline him better, and there's a whole episode story line dedicated to Sarah feeling the same way. One episode involves Kristina deciding she does need to take that approach in certain situations, when she doesn't let him go on a trip.

It seems like Max was being traumatized in his mainstream school, and he didn't appear to be getting that good of an education there either.

Just my opinions


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League_Girl
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31 Oct 2014, 3:03 am

In the latest episode, Max likes a girl in his school. He is interested in her so he gets all these books about how to do a relationship and his parents do not approve. I kind of cringed at it because there he was motivated to learn some social skills by reading books about romance and his parents were trying to discourage it. What did Adam mean by they were written by con artists and how did he know they are?

But I am not sure if Dylan is being mean when she calls him Aspergers. Max may not mind it but is it because he doesn't understand? I am not sure what to think of Dylan. I do wonder what problem she has. Obviously the school isn't for autistic kids only.

I can remember my mom not letting me go on a trip in 8th grade but Max did go on his but ended up coming home because these kids were mean to him. His parents tried to stop him but he insisted he goes. I let my mom stop me from going because of things she told me. For me it was due to anxiety while for Max, it was to protect him from bullying. It's great Max does want to do new things and try and get along with people and socialize than sticking to stereotypes.


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PlainsAspie
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31 Oct 2014, 5:21 pm

MadHatterMatador wrote:

They don't let him get away with things. They work on a system of reward for good behavior rather than punishment for bad behavior. This is a completely valid approach by most psychologists' standards. Even still, Zeek frequently tells them they need to discipline him better, and there's a whole episode story line dedicated to Sarah feeling the same way. One episode involves Kristina deciding she does need to take that approach in certain situations, when she doesn't let him go on a trip.



I disagree. Autism doesn't make him incapable of having basic manners. There should be consequences for behaving rudely. I'm not talking about spanking or aversive Lovaas method, that'd be inhumane. I'm talking about things like temporarily taking away a toy, or banning from video games/tv/computer for a while. It's insulting to suggest AS makes one incapable of behaving properly. I call it the soft bigotry of low expectations.

When Kristina punished Max for calling her a b***h by not letting him go on the trip, I thought it was drastic, but at least she's finally putting her foot down. But she ended going with him by plane anyway.

LeagueGirl wrote:

PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 9:03 am Post subject:
In the latest episode, Max likes a girl in his school. He is interested in her so he gets all these books about how to do a relationship and his parents do not approve. I kind of cringed at it because there he was motivated to learn some social skills by reading books about romance and his parents were trying to discourage it. What did Adam mean by they were written by con artists and how did he know they are?

But I am not sure if Dylan is being mean when she calls him Aspergers. Max may not mind it but is it because he doesn't understand? I am not sure what to think of Dylan. I do wonder what problem she has. Obviously the school isn't for autistic kids only.

I can remember my mom not letting me go on a trip in 8th grade but Max did go on his but ended up coming home because these kids were mean to him. His parents tried to stop him but he insisted he goes. I let my mom stop me from going because of things she told me. For me it was due to anxiety while for Max, it was to protect him from bullying. It's great Max does want to do new things and try and get along with people and socialize than sticking to stereotypes.


I actually like the Max/Dylan plot. Kristina's lack of professionalism by being unable to separate her mother and headmaster roles annoys me, but I still like the plot.



VioletYoshi
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02 Nov 2014, 11:20 pm

I think explaining what someone with Asperger's did wrong and agreeing on the consequences for bad behavior is better. I think punishing kids by taking away things they like just teaches kids they are controlled by their parents, and they need to walk on eggshells to avoid another punishment. I always felt confused by what I did wrong, so I did behave well, but it was out of fear not desire, even more so in school, I felt a sense of learned helplessness. It took me a long time to overcome perfectionism as a defense mechanism.



PlainsAspie
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21 Nov 2014, 10:50 am

My scale of affection for the show has been fluid, to borrow from the title of an earlier episode.

Adam and Kristina are terrible parents and this episode has show that so clearly. First, they didn't teach anything about sexual harassment obviously. After the fact, you think they'd maybe reactively teach him about boundaries in very clear terms. They sort of do, but stop short of saying what he did was harassment when it clearly was. There's a lot about romantic relationships that is hard to understand, but one thing that isn't hard to understand: when says no to physical expressions of affections, that means no. And of course, Kristina is still unable to separate her roles as mother and headmaster.

There may be some autistics who, because of social difficulties, stalk or attempt advances, but that's not the majority. Unfortunately, it's a trait of the only "hf" autistic in a movie or tv show with a large following outside the Autism community. This means more people will believe that autistics are perverts with no self-control.