The site where they BASH Aspie husband and wives. :O

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Exactly that. There are disorders I wouldn?t be able or willing to handle, and I would never consider being close with someone suffering from those specific disorders. But that?s about me and my personality, traits and limitations. I wouldn?t go on a forum to tell everyone else to stay away from x group.

An actual example, based on reality: I am hypoactive and very cautious. I would never be able to stand someone who was hyperactive, impulsive and into risks. Such a person would drive me nuts with frustration and anger, so no way. That?s both because I am the way I am, and because they are the way they are.
But that doesn?t mean such persons would be unsuitable for everyone else or that they shouldn?t be in a relationship. That?s none of my business (or in the case of that other forum, none of their business).


Also: I have been friends with people suffering from depression and I know how draining it is to deal with. It takes a lot out of you, and I don?t think you can get it before you have been there dealing with it yourself over time with someone you care about.
I would avoid that in the future for the sake of my own good.

I just don?t have that much energy.


Yeah, they use AS as a scapegoat for everything they don?t like.


There are plenty of relationships that end because things like that happen. TBH I think it?s easy to say that it?s for better or worse, but until you?ve been there, you don?t know how you?d handle it.
I have no problems seeing how it will make the partner miserable, depressed and frustrated.
I can understand how it can become too much.
I can even understand feeling resentment.

What I don?t understand is the actual hatred.

This is very telling. It's a power game.
They expect their partners to "ACT" as in fabricate a deception, exaggeration, or at the very least to outwardly fulfill the expectation of some social norm of behavior.
"can't be around an aspi person that is unhappy" - is incredibly presumptuous. It also suggests the pressure for them to lie, either verbally, or by emoting.
If they asked the aspie if they were happy, the aspie may say yes, but that would not be good enough. An answer of "I'm not unhappy" would also not be good enough.


An identical pattern can be observed in drug addicts. They prefer to be with other drug users and do not like to be around people who aren't users.
Sober individuals bring them down and make them want to leave.

I would tell people to stay away from pathological narcissists and psychopaths, pedophiles. But I would want to give clear, accurate, objective information about how to identify those people.

In any case, I would be really hesitant to tell anyone to end a relationship, stay away from someone, etc. just based on one or two posts they wrote describing the situation on a forum. That strikes me as very presumptuous.



Some of the stories I read on there do sound like the women have been mistreated by their husbands. But the behavior they describe doesn't sound like AS, and cannot be attributed to it...such as cheating. Not that a person with AS would never cheat on their partner, maybe some do, but good grief, it's absolutely NOT part of having AS.

I did see one thread where a woman described being in a horrible situation, but it didn't sound anything like her partner had AS, and someone actually told her that. They said it sounded more like her partner had a personality disorder. That probably should be said more often over there, because they don't seem to understand the differences between personality disorders and developmental disorders.

Abusive behavior is inherent to narcissism or psychopathy...which doesn't necessarily mean that anyone who has either disorder is automatically going to be abusive. But it's part and parcel of those disorders.

But abusive behavior is NOT part of autism. A person with AS can be abusive, and some are, but it's not actually part of having AS.

And of course people can be abusive without having any kind of disorder. Some people are just plain mean because they choose to be.

But on the other hand, like olympiadis said earlier in this thread...people can cry that they are being abused because of ANY behavior.

There is a litany of comments over there about feeling victimized because they got poor birthday presents, because they weren't offered something to eat or drink, because the husband took his shoes off and had stinky feet.

That, and the self-righteousness some of them have, making themselves sound like saints.

That's pretty typical human behaviour. People tend to try to whitewash their own behaviour, as well as those they identify with.

It seems like members on here are doing the same though, since we don't actually have any idea what living with these people's partners is like.

Relationships with people are ASDs are likely to have serious moments of frustration, it's normal for their partners to want to and need to vent. BFD.

They are doing a lot more than venting. They are putting out loads misinformation about AS, and many of them admit they don't even know if their partners actually have it or not.

They are telling every new poster who comes along that their partner probably has it too and telling them to end the relationship. They are not offering support or constructive advice to people who might want to continue having a relationship with an AS partner. They are just saying, end it.

I never said they were being helpful or constructive. Only that they're being normal.

Someone with a low frustration threshold may well be better served by ending their constantly frustrating relationship with an Aspie. Then both of them get to move on with their lives. Why should either of them feel obliged to remain with the other if they aren't feeling fulfilled by the relationship? No one owes anyone their company.

I could write a thesis explaining my position concerning apparent contradictions such as this.

You cannot explain what appears to be irrational behaviour with logic, but you can use it to identify methods resulting in decreased harm.

To elaborate on my point I will use psychopaths as an example. They are born that way, and it is therefore technically unfair that I blame them for something that they cannot help, just as a person with an ASD should not be blamed for needing strict routine. Logic dictates that you cannot consider one the fault of a person, and the other as being out of their control, and so a 'rational response' may simply be to ignore what bothers you (as you too, have your neurological wiring), in this example, the behaviour of a psychopath causes me great distress to the point of intolerance and as such I will avoid them.

However there is a problem with this. Humans are not born with inbuilt knowledge concerning neurology, and as you would expect our nervous system instinctively responds in a way that is ignorant of it. We will feel what we feel, and if we were not to consciously manipulate our behaviour ('higher-thinking' ability enabled by our frontal lobes) chaos would ensue, as it has on the other website.

I haven't explained this so well but try to logically explain this, and you will find yourself abound with cognitive dissonance. If something pisses us off (emotional pain) it pisses us off. The way in which pain is expressed varies per individual (e.g. a display of anger such as that website). The reason a forum has rules is in part to ensure that the least painful methods are avoided.



I agree, they pump a proverbial ton of misinformation out, but as has this forum - for difference reasons.

The posts on that website clearly spawn off negative emotion, and that is important to realize. It would otherwise be impossible to know if the misinformation was spread intentionally, or accidentally.

This forum doesn't discourage any particular group of people from posting, as long as they follow the rules. A glance at their forum quickly shows that autistic people and their supporters are not welcome.

That is spawned negative emotion, but still impossible to argue against using logic. All that can be considered are the methods of least harm (which involves manipulation). Civilization would not be possible without behavioural manipulation, as everybody would do as they instinctively feel the need to. Manipulation has downsides (as everything does), but I would rather the state humanity is in now rather than be living in the wild.

I don't even bother thinking about it any more than a superficial level, as when I have done so I've just ended up in loops.

Dianthus, I second everything you have written on this thread.

Here's another one I found where they discuss the possibility of the husband being a psychopath, rather than autistic. The chain of responses here is very revealing.

Posts are abridged, and bold emphasis is my addition.

The OP left an abusive husband, and it truly does sound like a nightmare:

http://forums.delphiforums.com/aspartne ... sg=13014.1

Someone tells her that it does not sound like AS:



The OP responds:



So she gets consistent feedback that this guy probably has a personality disorder and does not have AS. But still insists the husband is an Aspie:



Someone else chimes in:



The other poster tries one more time to clarify:



And here comes the backlash:



Then here's the root assumption that seems to be behind most of the ranting:




I do feel bad for the ones who were abused, cheated on, or had their children taken away and/or turned against them.

But when I see that they insist on calling the partner an Aspie, even when they KNOW it's probably not accurate, and toss the word around like a slur, I really lose feeling for them. They clearly don't care what kind of damage they might be causing by speaking that way.


So here's what I am wondering now: if it's not important to them whether the partner actually has AS or not...

Why is the forum called "AS PARTNERS"??!

I am so insanely against that mentality I cannot stress it enough. I have found it futile to fight against unfortunately, as that it is the instinctive way of human thinking. Anything different is a result of conscious thought processes, whereby inaccurate generalizations are bypassed via a closer examination of the details (vague terminology).

What I quoted actually describes how I have thought in the past when 'neurotypical' has been thrown around. Outside scientific use it really has little meaning, yet so many communities use it as the social construct that it is to differentiate themselves from the remainder of the population, typically (no pun intended) in negative fashion due to stresses imposed upon them by the apparent 'neurotypical' people.

As a personal example, I am gay. It's shocking how many expect me to be prancing around like a pony, simply due to the generalization that instinctively occurs within our brains. No matter how much I would try and convince somebody that 'not all gays are like that', the stereotype will always impact how a person will view another. It's inevitable.

When it comes to this, everyone is a hypocrite, because we will all say that it is wrong, but we will all continue to do it in other aspects of life automatically. It is again a display of behavioural manipulation, whereby harm is avoided by preventing oneself from expressing the mind in certain ways.

If the main thrust of this forum ever becomes the discussion of relationships with NTs, and the majority of posters respond by telling people to end those relationships, I may begin to see the parallel.

But discussing the general traits of people who do not have any specific neurological disability or disorder, will never equate to conflating the diagnostic criteria of specific disorders, or labeling an individual with the wrong disorder.

That's what I think as well. I use the term NT all the time, but I don't suggest that they run along, that aspies stay away from them, that they are horrible people, or anything like that.

What I do is try to describe underlying reasons for behaviors, and how those reasons are different between the neurotypes, - indicating that an underlying process is what spawns the perceived incompatibility. The goal is to understand the processes used by each, which one would think could help work around the incompatibility problem. This is a process of each neurotype becoming more "self-knowledgeable" and knowledgeable about the other, so that they could come closer to meeting half-way when interacting.
There are truths within the external effects of each neurotype that could be said to be ugly or undesirable in some way. That's just how it is. It's especially bad when viewed from the opposite neurotype.

Here's an example:



Aspies can have lots of self-knowledge, just little knowledge of the NT's "self".
The behavior is only "horrible" within the understood context of the NT's self-knowledge. There are two different standards there. So of course each person thinks they are being nice.
So, it is also apparent that the NTs have little to no "aspie self-knowledge" to their credit.

Their validation of their own self-knowledge comes COMPLETELY from the fact of their majority and their social validation of each other and what is acceptable behaviors for them.

This is an indication of them enforcing their own standards on a completely different creature.

I think it's very revealing of what their minds are capable of, or willing to consider or comprehend.

They are the owners of the definition of "self-knowledge", and also what is considered as "horrible behavior".
There seems to be no chance at all for them to consider anything else.

They think in absolutes.