JayShaw
Hawk (Site Admin)
Joined: Oct 08, 2004
Age: 33
Posts: 229
Location: Alexandria, Virginia (United States)
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 Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 3:35 pm Post subject: Sleeping Problems. |
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From what I have read, it is common for people with Asperger's Syndrome to have sleeping difficulties. I was wondering if my personal experiences are considered normal or if they are especially pronounced. If anyone has any insight into this situation, I'd appreciate it.
I have read that it is typical for a person to awaken from an evening's sleep feeling refreshed and energetic. I have never experienced this. In fact, I have great difficulty forcing myself to get out of bed in the morning no matter how much sleep I get.
My body seems to function best when I have more than ten hours of sleep per night. In fact, if I sleep much less than this, I will be unable to function effectively at all. If I sleep 9 to 10 hours per evening during a typical work week, I will usually feel exhausted throughout the day.
I believe that the quality of my sleep is very poor. I wake up exceedingly often during the night and occasionally have difficulty getting back to sleep.
I have had similar problems throughout my lifetime. In my youth, I remember often trying to sleep at my desk in class or accidentally falling asleep while trying to concentrate on something such as a role-playing game during my off hours.
I have been prone to abusing stimulants such as caffeine in the past due to my perpetual lack of energy. The only times that I recall feeling particularly energetic are when I was under the influence of some sort of drug. I discontinued the use of caffeine a few months ago, hoping that the peaks and valleys in energy that I had been experiencing would be replaced by a consistently positive energy level. While my energy level is now certainly more consistent, a neverending state of exhaustion is not what I had in mind.
I started exercising daily at around the same time that I quit using caffeine, since I've heard that this is supposed to increase a person's energy level. I find it very difficult to engage in strenuous exercise when I am always tired, but I somehow manage to do it anyway on most days. I don't understand the acclaimed "runner's high" that many people speak of. When I run for ten minutes, I simply feel very physically fatigued.
I've also made adjustments to my diet so that it is now as healthy as I can imagine. I have a very poor rate of metabolism (this seems to run in my family), and this likely contributes to my lack of energy.
Perversely, the only dietary changes that seem to have any positive effect at all on my energy level are negative ones. If I ingest addictive foods that are high in sugar or other quickly metabolized carbohydrates, I temporarily feel more energetic. Unfortunately, making positive adjustments to my diet (such as eliminating said sugars) doesn't seem to help very much.
I have recently started taking melatonin. When I first took the drug, I was amazed at the positive effect it had on me. Before taking the drug, I would have an intense desire to sleep throughout my work day. Since taking it, this feeling has lessened a great deal. While melatonin is obviously helping to at least some degree, I still feel physically tired all day.
I can't remember a time when I felt naturally energetic. None of the lifestyle changes that I've made seem to be helping in the slightest. I'm running out of alternatives. My constant fatigue is having a significant effect on both my quality of life as well as my performance at work.
Is this normal for someone with Asperger's Syndrome? Does anyone have relevant advice? |
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KtMcS
Sea Gull
Joined: Jun 17, 2004
Posts: 226
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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I experience pretty much the same thing- I can sleep for 12 hours and still feel tired. That's 12 hours when I've managed to get to sleep- and am already so exhausted from not sleeping well for so long that I dont wake up repeatedly. I also have the problem that if I wake up at any point...I do find it very difficult to go back to sleep.
A while ago I had a real problem of waking repeatedly between about 5:00am and 7:00am (when I get up) which always seemed to exhaust me- if that makes sense?
all the joys of insomnia  
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Sonas càirdeas
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NeantHumain
Phoenix
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Joined: Jun 25, 2004
Posts: 5119
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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I usually have trouble falling asleep, often taking hours just to fall asleep. Sometimes I also wake up off and on during sleep and sometimes even wake up an hour or two before I have to get up, but I try to rest and fall back asleep. On many days, I do have low energy, especially when I first get up. My diet isn't very healthy (I'm working on that), but I do exercise.
I prefer to get 8-12 hours of sleep. |
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Arashi
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Sep 23, 2004
Posts: 65
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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I also feel tired all the time and sleep poorly. I don't know if this is due to AS or chronic depression.
Many people with AS tend to fall into depression in their teenage years. This was true for me. Depression robs you of energy and ruins your sleep, (among many other things).
Taking depression meds helps a little with the depression but so far all the ones I've tried actually make me MORE sleepy. Like Jay, I've tried caffiene in an attempt to have more energy, but what always happens is I quickly ramp up until I'm drinking coffee all day and feeling terrible.
For me caffiene is far more addicting than nicotine and after those phases where I've ramped up I have to slowly taper off or face nasty withdrawl symptoms.
The days when I start my morning with a pipe of tobacco I have lots of energy in the morning and my mood is great, but towards the end of the day this wears off and I'm back to normal.
So far I haven't found a solution to the problem, but I keep looking. Right now I'm trying to map out the slump caused by Paxil to see what the best time of day to take it is. |
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ACG
Raven
Joined: Oct 17, 2004
Age: 41
Posts: 103
Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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I remember hearing somewhere that taking coffea cruda is good for calming a hyperactive mind. I have some tablets, but I don't want to use it unless it is absolutely necessary (I treat it as if it were a drug).
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Autism: when you can solve world hunger but not tell anyone. |
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Scoots5012
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 02, 2004
Age: 33
Posts: 2353
Location: Cedar Falls/Waterloo Iowa
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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It takes me on average a good hour or so to fall asleep. And it does not matter how much sleep I get at night, getting myself out of bed in the morning is only done with great difficulty, as it takes my system a long time to get running after I wake up.
I usually awaken once or twice each night for what ever reason, mostly noises waking me up, which is why I wear earplugs at night.
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I live my life to prove wrong those who said I couldn't make it in life... |
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MishLuvsHer2Boys
Proud Mom to 2 Sons
Joined: Oct 09, 2004
Posts: 2671
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| I think for me I always had a hard time falling asleep but never had many problems getting enough sleep growing up, just my depression made me want to sleep longer and if I slept too much I would end up much later at night and it'd ruin my cycle of sleeping, now I have a hard time falling asleep as Dylan is autistic and sleeping problems is common for both Aspergers Syndrome and Autistic Disorder as well. He has a problem staying asleep through the night. |
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midge
Deinonychus
Joined: Oct 03, 2004
Posts: 301
Location: The Great Plains
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| I've been having this problem a lot lately, too...it takes me about an hour or more to fall asleep b/c I can't shut my mind off and I usually wake up a couple of times, and I practically have to be poked with a cattle prod to get out of bed. The time I have my best sleep is when I'm extremely tired-after I've worked a 10 hour shift or haven't really slept all week. Other than giving up caffeine, I haven't really found anything that works except waiting until I am genuinely tired before going to sleep rather than at a set time, whether it's 8:00 or 12:00 and avoiding naps at all costs; otherwise anything that shuts my mind off is a big help (but it's difficult to do). |
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gwynfryn
Velociraptor
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Joined: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 413
Location: France
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 4:46 pm Post subject: Re: Sleeping Problems. |
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| JayShaw wrote: |
I have recently started taking melatonin. When I first took the drug, I was amazed at the positive effect it had on me. Before taking the drug, I would have an intense desire to sleep throughout my work day. Since taking it, this feeling has lessened a great deal. While melatonin is obviously helping to at least some degree, I still feel physically tired all day.
Is this normal for someone with Asperger's Syndrome? Does anyone have relevant advice? |
This is so common as to be useful as a diagnostic! A major aspect is circadian rythms, and a lot of people have reported better sleep if allowed to night owl. Something like sleep at 3 am, awake at noon, seems to be the mean, but of course our nemesis the establishment see virtue (?) in their particular preference and so try to enforce early-bird habits on most of us (there's no particular logic to it, nor for most working the same hours...).
School hours were a nightmare for me, and catching the morning bus inevitably involved a skipped breakfast and last minute sprint (and a lie-in on Saturday morning till about 2 pm or so) so it's most definitely not an affectation.
If you can't night owl, then melatonin (no longer available in Europe as, having been used for more than thirty years, during which time it never killed anyone, it's now considered under-researched and dangerous so we'd be better off using sleeping pills, the suicide's choice...profit motive anyone?) can certainly help. Understand though it's not a knock out pill, just a rythm regulator, so certain disciplines like preparation for sleep, regular hours, and meditation (to stop the runaway imagination we seem prone to) all feature in a successful strategy.
It's not a new topic, so if you really want to work on solutions (rather than just talk about them...) I suggest you visit here:
http://www.aspergia.com/wforum/index.php
and do a search for "insomnia". Amongst many references you'll see two threads actually titled "insomnia" and both have some particularly deep posts, with interesting insights based on years of trial and experience, by some guy called...what was it now? Oh yes, I've got it, someone called gwynfryn...  ).
Lastly, there's the issue of natural remedies (I wouldn't even consider sleeping pills...) like Camomile and others, which seem to have an amazing placebo effect on the gullible, but the only one I know of that has real science behind it is Tryptophan, which when taken appropriately has a definite calming effect. Regrettably, this requires quite large doses, taken on an empty stomach which, as many of us have a leaky pyloric valve (and subsequent rumbly gut which can lead to sleep disturbance) may not be appropriate for Aspies in this respect (but surely safer than the antidepressives being doled out) but I've never actually tried it, so I'd like to hear from anyone who has. |
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Civet
The Practical Cat
Joined: Jul 09, 2004
Posts: 1342
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I believe that the quality of my sleep is very poor. I wake up exceedingly often during the night and occasionally have difficulty getting back to sleep.
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Well that's most likely your biggest problem causing the daytime tiredness. Even if you sleep a lot, waking up often in the middle of the night disrupts your sleep cycles and you may not be getting through all the stages of sleep (which are required for a decent night's rest).
| Quote: | I have recently started taking melatonin. When I first took the drug, I was amazed at the positive effect it had on me. Before taking the drug, I would have an intense desire to sleep throughout my work day. Since taking it, this feeling has lessened a great deal. While melatonin is obviously helping to at least some degree, I still feel physically tired all day.
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Melatonin can cause daytime tiredness, as well. Have you spoken to a doctor about your melatonin usage? Someone who knows more about the drug may be able to help you regulate the amount you take. You should also be careful, because I've read that it's common for melatonin to just "stop working" after taking it for awhile if you take it regularly. If this is the case, rather than raising the dosage, it's recommended that you stop usage for a short period of time, and then resume with the dosage you were originally taking.
| Quote: | | Is this normal for someone with Asperger's Syndrome? |
From what I've read, sleeping problems are fairly common among autistics and aspies. I have had sleeping problems my entire life, some of which have been slightly lessened after having a septoplasty this summer. I still wake up in the middle of the night or in the early morning, however, and have difficulty falling back asleep. Often, I can't get back to sleep at all. As a result, I am often tired during the day, as you have described. It's hard for me to get my work done because I can't focus on it when I'm not completely mentally alert, and I don't like having to waste time or miss out on things just because I couldn't sleep the night before.
Some of the things that help me sometimes are wearing earplugs and hanging dark curtains over the windows. This blocks out sounds which may disturb you in your sleep and keeps the light from waking you up too early in the morning. I'm sensitive to sound, so the earplugs are a necessity for me. Hanging dark curtains is something I just figured out this year, sometimes it helps and sometimes it doesn't.
You may want to check on several other standard things, such as room temperature at night and the type of bedding you've been sleeping on. The mattress as well as the sheets and comforter can make a big difference, especially if you have sensory sensitivities. Also, be sure that your sleep difficulties are not caused by a breathing problem or some other health condition. |
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Scoots5012
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 02, 2004
Age: 33
Posts: 2353
Location: Cedar Falls/Waterloo Iowa
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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The curtains and bedding are two big factors for me sleeping.
As I've stated before, I've been hanging curtains over the windows in my room since 1993, since I've blocked all the light out of the room, I've been able to sleep in the morning with out discomfort or waking up several times.
The matress has to be oriented just right for me. If you've gotten a new matress lately, it may be that your not use to the feel of the new matress. For me, I have to be on my stomach in bed, laying at a slight angle to the right in order for me to feel comfortable.
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I live my life to prove wrong those who said I couldn't make it in life... |
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JayShaw
Hawk (Site Admin)
Joined: Oct 08, 2004
Age: 33
Posts: 229
Location: Alexandria, Virginia (United States)
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Melatonin can cause daytime tiredness, as well. Have you spoken to a doctor about your melatonin usage? Someone who knows more about the drug may be able to help you regulate the amount you take. You should also be careful, because I've read that it's common for melatonin to just "stop working" after taking it for awhile if you take it regularly. If this is the case, rather than raising the dosage, it's recommended that you stop usage for a short period of time, and then resume with the dosage you were originally taking. |
I've already discovered quite a bit about how melatonin affects me through my own experimentation. Like any drug, the effect becomes less pronounced as you build a tolerance to it. I was originally taking 3 milligrams per evening. The most I've ever tried is 9 milligrams per evening. If I take 9 milligrams, I develop the side effect of daytime grogginess, as you mentioned (this grogginess is nothing compared to the extreme exhaustion that I felt before experimenting with the drug, though).
Through trial and error, I've discovered that the best dosage for me is 6 milligrams per evening. I've also discovered that the drug seems to work better if I take it at least an hour before trying to sleep. Combining this with environmental changes, such as lowering the level of light in my apartment a little while before bedtime approaches, seems to be the most effective method that I've found so far. The comment that you made about room temperature also pertains to me, as I have great difficulty sleeping if I am too warm.
| Quote: | | and do a search for "insomnia". Amongst many references you'll see two threads actually titled "insomnia" and both have some particularly deep posts, with interesting insights based on years of trial and experience, by some guy called...what was it now? Oh yes, I've got it, someone called gwynfryn... ). |
I'm not sure if I'm not using the site's search function correctly, but inputting the word "insomnia" resulted in only four threads for me. None of them were entitled "Insomnia" or had any posts made by you.
Your comment about abnormal circadian rhythms certainly does apply to me, though. Throughout college, I gravitated toward a schedule that involved going to sleep at around 4:00 A.M. and waking up at around 2:00 P.M. Unfortunately, my current work schedule will not allow for anything remotely resembling this. |
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Arashi
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Sep 23, 2004
Posts: 65
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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Caffiene was mentioned as something to avoid before bedtime. For any smokers here I should mention that nicotine is also a stimulant that you should avoid for at least five hours before bedtime. I say this @ 8:10 pm while smoking a pipe.
(I give myself very good advice but I very seldom follow it. - Alice in Wonderland) |
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animallover
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
Posts: 762
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:36 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah, I have a terrible time sleeping - three of my psyche meds are tranquilizers so that I can sleep - but a thunderstorm will still keep me up all night . . . |
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NoMore
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 29, 2004
Posts: 919
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:02 am Post subject: Re: Sleeping Problems. |
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| JayShaw wrote: | I have recently started taking melatonin. When I first took the drug, I was amazed at the positive effect it had on me. Before taking the drug, I would have an intense desire to sleep throughout my work day. Since taking it, this feeling has lessened a great deal...
Is this normal for someone with Asperger's Syndrome? Does anyone have relevant advice? |
I would assume sleep problems are common for people across the autism spectrum. I know quite a few parents of children on autism spectrum who claim significant results after putting their child on melatonin.
Personally, I sleep much better and require less sleep per night since giving up caffeine in all forms several years ago - coffee, tea, cola, and yes, even chocolate! |
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