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Greentea
Bull in China Shop par Excellence!
Joined: Jun 15, 2007
Posts: 1964
Location: Middle East
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 Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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"In a work situation, the hierarchy is relatively clear due to job titles."
Unfortunately, it isn't. It'd be very easy for us aspies if it were so. But the powerful ones are not necessarily the managers. The manager's mistress, the manager's driver who keeps his secrets, the secretary who is friends with the CEO's daughter...the cleaner because she cleans your manager's house for little money... You NEVER know who is in power over you at work unless you have a good NT intuition and observation. |
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cognizant
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: May 24, 2007
Posts: 189
Location: Ukraine
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| Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Greentea wrote: | | The manager's mistress, the manager's driver who keeps his secrets, the secretary who is friends with the CEO's daughter...the cleaner because she cleans your manager's house for little money... You NEVER know who is in power over you at work unless you have a good NT intuition and observation. |
I don't believe it's intuition, it's information. If not, why they need to gossip? |
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Postperson
The Daughter of Indifference
Joined: Jul 10, 2004
Age: 51
Posts: 2537
Location: Uz
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| Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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yes, that's what workplace gossip is for.
ugh gossip, they adore it don't they. it's like money, has a real value in NT world. |
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mariiha
Toucan
Joined: Feb 12, 2007
Posts: 259
Location: WP
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| Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| i do not know any boundaries and treat everyone fairly equal no matter what their "title" in life is. it just doesn't register to me that they are more important than anyone else so i am labeled a rebel although being a rebel is not my intention. i speak my mind and don't realize until someone looks at me weird that i have said anything that is socially not accepted. i do respect certain people over others but it is my decision and my reasonings; not societies foolish demands. |
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pluto
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 27, 2006
Age: 48
Posts: 1037
Location: Paisley,Scotland UK
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| cognizant wrote: | | Greentea wrote: | | The manager's mistress, the manager's driver who keeps his secrets, the secretary who is friends with the CEO's daughter...the cleaner because she cleans your manager's house for little money... You NEVER know who is in power over you at work unless you have a good NT intuition and observation. |
I don't believe it's intuition, it's information. If not, why they need to gossip? |
I'm inclined to agree that gathering information is the key,rather than some mysterious
intuition.This is where we're at a disadvantage because of the social side.NTs are more skilled
in playing the 'game' and manipulating conversations towards a subject they want to know about. One consolation is that sometimes you can learn more just by listening and observing
than you would by asking a leading question.
I used to have a manager who was egotistical and bullying,not just to me
but to everyone.I couldn't understand how other people could laugh at his sarcastic
comments and have conversations with him,but I realise now they were only trying to keep in with someone who had power over their positions.They laughed on cue at his sarcastic put-
downs only because he was a manager,not because they thought he was funny or worthy of
respect.Thankfully,I think times are changing and employers realise that's not an ideal atmosphere to have.In my own case I knew the job was only temporary so I refused to play the game.
At least if we don't play the games,we're being true to ourselves.What we'd have to consider
is whether it's financially more beneficial for us to just play along and stick to the job if we can.
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I have lost the will to be apathetic |
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Greentea
Bull in China Shop par Excellence!
Joined: Jun 15, 2007
Posts: 1964
Location: Middle East
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I'm bad at turning conversations to what I want to know. Well, I'm bad at the whole socializing (phony) game.
And pluto, I had a supervisor just like yours, and observed the same that you pointed out here.
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"It is the wounded oyster that mends its shell with pearl" - Ralph Waldo Emerson |
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Belfast
Vast Ambivalence
Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Age: 35
Posts: 1579
Location: New England
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| krex wrote: | I have had this problem my whole life and yes,it is an AS trait to not respect "status and titles" but individual traits in people.
I think this is logical.We know that just because someone is born into a certain social status(caste,royalty,wealth),that it doesnt make them a better person.It is also obvious to me(Bush adminstration is a good example),people are often promoted to positions just because of their conections and not their ability/honesty/intelligence. |
QFT.
Am unaware of some "status differences", and others I just don't take seriously.
OTOH, obvious important (in terms of my safety, liberty, etc.) official people to whom I try to say as little as possible, so I won't get in trouble. Tend to be too familiar with people, not realizing I've made them uncomfortable-am also very nervous around strangers & can't think of anything socially acceptable to say, so I either say too much or too little or just the wrong things.
Around my few close friends there is no idea of "status", merely the actual characteristics of each person based on accumulated mutual relationship over time-not "cookie-cutter" cliches or types.
Don't work, so am spared the office politics bafflement (and I mostly got along well with my schoolteachers, so didn't conflict w/them as a student). Had plenty of experiences after which I've been informed of having offended & disrespected all sorts of people in variety of situations.
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*"You cannot administer a wicked law impartially-it destroys everyone it touches, its violators as well as its upholders."* |
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kyethra
Raven
Joined: Dec 16, 2006
Posts: 118
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| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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To tell you the truth, I had really had no idea that there was a social heirarchy. I mean I know organizations and buisiness have one and so do criminal organizations (like any good organization) and that clubs run more smoothly when there is one. But a social one? Really? Interesting. This could be one of the reasons I have such difficulty socially. If I was at a party or something I would consider the host or hostess to be at the top of that particular heirarchy at that time. I mean its their place, so if I need to know where the paper towels are, thats why I am going to ask. But why woud one relative be more prominent than another relative? More crazy than another, that I understand. And I know that one should always be nice to bosses and stuff and not be overly pushy about stuff to people who have power over your decissions because they get mad when you are annoying and pushy and may kick you out of their office (but if you apologi se you can usually go back). Huh. You know, I never really tend to take these things personally. I always figured that maybe there was something odd about those people when they acted strange because they acted strange and NTs aren' supposed to be doing that a lot. Like it was thier problem, and not mine, you know. Nobody ever told me this. But I do know that one should always be nice to people who are armed (unless you are similarily armed and confident you will not be injured).
One thing I have noticed a lot is that people who say they want respect don't mean that. What they really want is the rhetoric of respect. They want the Yes Sir and the No Ma'am and the brown nosing and all that other stuff that they assosciate with respect. Those things are not respect. Respect is something else entirely, but I think people get confused.
One of the reasons the last mayor of my hometown got voted out of office was because he got too upity. Its a small rural town. He started acting like some important bigshot, like he was better than everyone else. Now that just gets annoying, makes you wonder if he hadn't let it all go to his head. |
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juliekitty
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 26, 2006
Posts: 1687
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| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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This has always been a problem for me, and probably always will be.
I have lucked out in my current job in that my immediate supervisor doesn't require bowing and scraping. At the same time, he recognizes that I don't do it sufficiently, so he contrives to keep me away from the bigwigs. When there's no way around it and I have to be in their presence, I simply say as little as possible so I don't screw it up. |
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nb411
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 22, 2007
Posts: 802
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| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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It's exceptionally clear from frequenting this forum that there is very little concept of power, heirachy etc. The people who frequently post more intelligent or more valid truths do not seem to be given more value than the types who just reply impetuously and so on.
I think it is good from the point of view that no one person is given too much value and power, but it stinks from the point of view that poor behaviours that could be changed and improved on are allowed to flourish. That's how I see it. |
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Metal_Man
Toucan
Joined: Feb 04, 2007
Age: 40
Posts: 298
Location: A higher state of existance
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| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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In formal situations like work I don't usually have any real problems dealing with a hierarchy. In informal situations I am a dismal failure. I just can't see who the "popular" people are or why everyone else defers to them. It has gotten me into so much trouble socially that I have given up on ever trying to be a part of a group of any kind.
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Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand. Homer J. Simpson |
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MomofTom
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 06, 2006
Posts: 556
Location: Where normalcy and bad puns collide
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| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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^ Conversely, you can get an Aspie in the rank of high status who wonders why people lower on the chain don't just talk to him like a regular person?
_________________
Apathy is a dominant gene. Mutate. |
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DeaconBlues
They call Alabama the Crimson Tide - call me...
Joined: Apr 22, 2007
Posts: 1428
Location: Earth, mostly
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:01 am Post subject: |
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Partly, it's societal, as well. Here on the US Left Coast, you might see some of that going on in certain older corporations, or among families who have recently immigrated, but by and large, if you don't kiss asses (to use the crude vernacular), you're going to be thought of as either a troublemaker, or the next CEO. A certain amount of respect, after all, is often granted in these parts to the person who bucks the establishment, who pursues their ends without excessive concern as to whose toes they step on in the process.
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One man's "magic" is another man's engineering. "Supernatural" is a null word. - Robert A. Heinlein |
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Aspie1
Overman
Joined: Mar 08, 2005
Posts: 2475
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Izaak wrote: | | haha... this reminds me of an incident I had with the owner of a construction firm. I told him off and called him a dumbass for walking through our work (statement was along the lines of "Watch the wet paint dumbass" [he did duck under the tape and walk past a "caution: wet paint sign"]. He then told me that he owned the company and that was no way to talk to him. To which I reply... oh so that means you should have known better, so don't do it again. (story is still retold amongst my co-workers every now and then) |
I think there would have been a better way to get your point across without being "rude". When your boss tried to walk past a "wet paint" sign, you could have told him, in a firm but polite voice: "Sir, please don't do that! The paint is wet. Do you need something from that area?" This way, you're still telling your boss not to go into the work area, but you're also giving him a brief explanation (wet paint), and offering a solution (getting something from the area yourself). Aspie or not, we live in an NT world, and these workarounds are a necessary evil. |
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Bobcat
Snowy Owl
Joined: Dec 09, 2004
Posts: 140
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| Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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Greentea, I know what you mean as I too have little interest in social hierarchies, and this is characteristic of AS, as others have posted here. But we live in the NT world where social hierarchies thrive. They set the rules. I work in their company for wages.
I have paid dearly for my lack of proper respect for persons in positions of higher social status. What has helped me is to have others perform the heavy social interaction while I do the technical and detailed work in the background, mostly alone. Still, I've worked hard to improve my ability to say the 'right' things and avoid the 'wrong' things in work and social situations. You can get better at it too. And you can be skilled at jobs that don't require a lot of interaction with people in hierarchies.
I've survived by keeping a low profile, staying low on the radar screen with stock phrases that get me by in tight spots, and I let others handle the heavy diplomacy. I don't like it, but I do what it takes for my splice of the pie. |
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