richie
Ye Olde Bookwyrme
Joined: Jan 10, 2007
Age: 54
Posts: 31254
Location: Lake Whoop-Dee-Doo, Pennsylvania
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 Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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When I first saw this miss Repliee I was reminded
of "Blade-Runner" and the replicants. To some of the more ignorant NTs, we are
"Skin-Jobs" that exist only to amuse them. |
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cecilfienkelstien
Phoenix
Joined: May 11, 2006
Posts: 1410
Location: western ontario
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| Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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I get freaked out when I hear my voice. Not so much when I see my reflexion. I get more freaked out by the sudden movment of a reflexion though. WHY AM I SO MUCH LIKE A CAT!  |
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richie
Ye Olde Bookwyrme
Joined: Jan 10, 2007
Age: 54
Posts: 31254
Location: Lake Whoop-Dee-Doo, Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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People get freaked by seeing the familiar in an unfamiliar context.
I wonder how some of us would react to a Body Worlds exhibit?
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karasu
Snowy Owl
Joined: Jan 16, 2007
Posts: 163
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| Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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In general I think negative reactions to things that are different make good sense from an evolutionary perspective. Humans are social beings, so avoiding individuals whose social ability doesn't contribute to the harmony of a social group (thinking about it from the perspective of small groups that would have existed some ten thousand years ago or more before the advent of history etc...) would be genetically advantageous.
In other words, a negative response to those people who are different would likely be something the environment would select for. People react strongly to 'outsiders', though that word has a variety of meanings. Those who are different often have genes that might be sub-optimal for encouraging survival of the organism as well as positively contributing to the survival of the group (and the group's genes, which in the past were probably shared as groups would often have been extended families and clans). So we're probably evolved to freak out about those who are different from us. Especially if they 'kind-of' seem normal--that's where a genetic predisposition toward avoidance would come in most handy. If left to our own devices, without instinct, we might have died out a long time ago by selecting mates whose characteristics are not advantageous for survival. |
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lelia
Pika
Joined: Apr 12, 2007
Age: 60
Posts: 2993
Location: Vancouver not BC, Washington not DC
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| Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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ooooooo. INTERESTING! This should be made an article. Maybe even added to Wikipedia.
Maybe this explains why I like extremely realistic art or abstract art. I can't stand art where the people or animals are just a little bit off in their proportions.
I think this is important!
Alex! Is there any way this thread can be sent to everybody on Wrong Planet? I think it helps contribute to an understanding of what frustrates us every day. I don't think I'm doing anything weird. Why does everybody keep calling me weird? Oh ho oh ho. |
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Keeno
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 09, 2006
Posts: 4948
Location: Earth
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:23 am Post subject: |
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Apologies for upping this thread, but it's mainly for the benefit of anyone who joined WP since 2007, which is most of you. And I found out about Uncanny Valley only today, had never heard of it before, and immediately thought of what relevance it has to a few of the people on the spectrum. I searched, found this, and Raseri's original post was indeed a damn good one. Although I was going to do a post about Uncanny Valley, I really see nothing necessary to add to Raseri's post, so here you go.
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The greatest kingdom in all the world. All hail Lilliput! |
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Verdandi
Miss Kitty Fantastico
Joined: Dec 08, 2010
Posts: 10176
Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder how many here perceive the uncanny valley effect. It took me ages to even understand what it describes, and I just don't see it.
I also found that apparently while robots in videos as well as CGI animation can trigger the uncanny valley effect (at least in people who see it), that it's much less likely to happen with robots in person (or perhaps doesn't happen at all):
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/engineering/robots/4343054 |
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SammichEater
Now 30% Cooler
Joined: Mar 07, 2011
Age: 19
Posts: 3823
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| And this is exactly why I should give up with acting like an NT to begin with. |
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graywyvern
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 03, 2010
Age: 55
Posts: 516
Location: texas
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:04 pm Post subject: uncannily accurate |
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of course, what this is really about is the shift from social expectations to intimate expectations. those expectations for other humans whom we have scant knowledge of, depend heavily on codes & the sameness of the responders. when intimacy has been agreed, idiosyncrasies become relatively permissible. but intimacy-before-agreement is experienced as a violation. in short, one who is not predictable enough, causes a sense of violation to be invoked--at least, in those of a relatively rigid outlook.
"i am a human; nothing human is foreign to me." --this is the attitude of neurotypicals who can accept us for who we are.
"my planet: love it or leave it." --this is the attitude of neurotypicals who can only accept us as faulty approximations of themselves.
the "uncanny valley" effect can be countered, to a degree, if you have acquired a repertoire of cliches that can be deployed to defuse the tension. on the other hand, perceiving that tension as it accumulates, is another matter... i realize as i write this that i remember telling myself, when entering unfamiliar territory, something on the order of (in pictures): "what do you do when you meet a strange dog? you move slowly & speak to it gently. convince it you aren't an enemy. when it starts growling & raising its hackles, back off." also: remember what the form is of what you're supposed to be when you enter this situation. what do you come closest to resembling?
there are shapes where imperfection of presentation is part of the shape.
_________________
"I have always found that Angels have the vanity
to speak of themselves as the only wise; this they
do with a confident insolence sprouting from systematic
reasoning." --William Blake |
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Adam917
Raven
Joined: Feb 01, 2009
Age: 27
Posts: 100
Location: North America
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| Might this be the experience one gets when they hear a person speaking in an accent they don't fully know how to do well? Where the person makes mistakes here & there that a native would never make? Same thing as any fluent foreign language speaker to accidentally slip out & make an uncommon mistake? |
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nirrti_rachelle
Go Tigers!
Joined: Jul 22, 2005
Age: 38
Posts: 1362
Location: The Dirty South
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:11 am Post subject: |
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I agree with your observation. I also think this may be why people don't react as negatively toward me as some other aspies as I present as being obviously different from others and there's no ambivalence about me being "like everyone else".
This is especially when I'm in an environment such as a fast-paced restaurant job that brings out all my weaknesses. And I guess being extremely shy within a culture of extreme extroverts plays a part as well. So I'm at that point right before the uncanny valley kicks in which actually sort of makes me endearing to a lot of NTs. You know, like a Pixar character who's three-dimensional and realistic....but still cartoon-like.
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"There is difference and there is power. And who holds the power decides the meaning of the difference." --June Jordan |
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pastafarian
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 20, 2011
Posts: 543
Location: London
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:37 am Post subject: |
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I'd like to know more about this. Heres my very poor understanding.
When you look at someone/something and everything is 'normal' to you different areas of your brain fire simultaneously. For example, some neurons fire for visual recognition and some neurons fire for feelings - (thats me mum, she looks like me mum, and I feel love, so she feels like me mum - everything is ok)
They happened simultaneously (they can see this sort of thing in MRIs) and it 'feels' right. If something doesn't feel right, visually or aurally 'not right', signals not firing, or delayed you get parts of your brain associated with anxiety firing (sub regions of the amygdala?)
Thats a lot of vagueness. I'm just thinking out aloud, I'd love to learn more about this. Stick people in MRIs and look at Uncanny Valley stuff. Someone must have done it. |
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deconstruction
State of Love and Trust
Joined: Aug 04, 2011
Age: 31
Posts: 1764
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:45 am Post subject: |
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The Uncanny Valley observation is good and I do believe there's some truth in it.
Unlike many here, I can get really scared of the objects that fall into the uncanny valley. I don't really mean on robots or animated characters (though they count, too), but sometimes, real humans can appear to me that way. I think I'm scared of the women who wear too much makeup. Or people with botox.
I think it's important to understand the reaction to the uncanny valley is not conscious. In other words, NTs who react this way to autistic people don't do it consciously; it's just an instinctive reaction of some sorts. |
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SyphonFilter
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 08, 2011
Posts: 2072
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| Some NT jerk told me back in third grade, "why doesn't your face change [in response to emotionally-charged conversations]? Your face is creepy like an alien's!". Ended up crying myself to bed that night. |
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SylviaLynn
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 10, 2008
Age: 56
Posts: 534
Location: Albuquerque, NM
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| "Uncanny Valley" is one way to put this tendency to fear the Other. There is a similar metaphor in the "Purple Monkey" concept. Here the idea is that if you dye a monkey purple and put it in a cage with normal monkeys the purple monkey will be bullied and possibly killed because it doesn't belong. Humans are primates. Naked apes. All too often humans react to difference from the monkey brain and try to drive the Other away. Much of the ideal that humans aspire to attain transcends monkey brain. It requires working outside the comfort zone. Our aspieness is one difference. There are many others. I have to point out that in this group, NT is Other and frequently met with monkey brain. |
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