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Jainaday
in uncertain taste
Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Age: 24
Posts: 1348
Location: in the They
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 Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| KimJ wrote: | I don't think it's fair to say no one objected. I objected to the whole theme of the thread by complaining about stereotyping. I saw it in most of the posts previous to mine. The original question didn't have enough information in it and so was drawing all these assumptions.
I took Ticker's particular post as a blatant misunderstanding and reinterpretation of mmaestro's post . But she didn't generalize onto other men, just mmaestro. She came close when she misquoted him and said, ". . . as a guy is telling you as a woman. . . . "
I think relationship complaints assume a sexism when they are posted here in the Women's forum. There's an assumption that an oversexed man is a problem women must deal with. Why wouldn't it be a "mature" question? Or an "aspie" question (social cues, social skills issue)? Or a marriage issue? It's seen as a Woman's problem and men's input is not welcome. |
I think relationship questions are legitimate as something one would want to discuss in a sheltered environment.
I think a lot of things belong in the womens forum that also belong elsewhere. Mixed gender input makes for a different discussion of the same topic; sometimes the discussion you want is the "women only" one.
You make an interesting point about a "women only" environment operating under some sexist assumptions, and I'll have to think more about that. . . I'm inclined to believe it still has an independent value that's worth preserving.
I also think that her generalization onto mmaestro was/is enough of a leap that it implies a disquieting willingness to generalize onto all men everywhere. . . but then, that could just be a faulty generalization of mine.  |
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KimJ
Legend in my own mind
Joined: Jun 11, 2006
Posts: 2538
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't mean that the Women's Forum was inheritantly sexist, only asking relationship questions. Like I said, wanting other women to discuss why a man is asking for sex is begging for sexist feedback. Intentional or not, it doesn't really matter. It's like asking why Black people "do a particular thing" and not allowing Black people to respond.
There are certainly valid topics that can be free of sexism, like health concerns, finance, fashion, etc.
I think asking men for their input on a question that is about a man is totally valid. |
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Yupa
Avatar of Evil
Joined: May 15, 2005
Age: 18
Posts: 1315
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| KimJ wrote: | | I think asking men for their input on a question that is about a man is totally valid. |
Agreed completely, and when it comes to anything regarding gender-related issues, someone will at least be tempted to scream "sexism" at some point or other during the discussion.
As a male, I have a problem with society's view of a woman using a man solely for sex as an ego boost to the man, which it isn't at all, despite what the media and some males' macho posturing may lead you to believe. It's just as disrespectful and wrong as when a man uses a woman solely for the same purpose. |
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hale_bopp
Ruffle some Feathers
Joined: Nov 03, 2004
Age: 23
Posts: 6327
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:35 am Post subject: |
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The man bashing in here is NOTHING compared to the woman bashing that used to go on in the male forum.
I, personally, am sexist. |
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KimJ
Legend in my own mind
Joined: Jun 11, 2006
Posts: 2538
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, it's an unfair argument since there is no longer a Men's forum here to point fingers at. In any sense, two wrongs don't make a right. |
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Jainaday
in uncertain taste
Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Age: 24
Posts: 1348
Location: in the They
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| KimJ wrote: | | Well, it's an unfair argument since there is no longer a Men's forum here to point fingers at. In any sense, two wrongs don't make a right. |
I think it hurts feminism when we fail to be more reasonable than the other side. |
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Jainaday
in uncertain taste
Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Age: 24
Posts: 1348
Location: in the They
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Or as reasonable as the other side, come to think of it. |
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Haliphron
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 29, 2008
Age: 27
Posts: 1044
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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While I occasionally here NT women,usually in their late 20s and 30s but sometimes in their teens/20s go on man-bashing tirades when they feel frustrated with the men in their life AND/OR they have "daddy issues" I really notice A LOT more hostility towards men among Aspie women than NT women. The guys here who bash women are usually doing so out of sexual frustration but I cant quite get why aspie women bash men moreso than NT women. I also notice that *gender*feminism-which is the brand of feminism that asserts that women should get special privelidges that men dont get to have because the cosmos was somehow "unfair" to women  . BTW Hale_bopp, Why are you sexist, eh? |
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Anemone
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 18, 2008
Age: 43
Posts: 805
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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I used to feel extremely unsafe around men (for perfectly logical reasons) and didn't trust any of them even when they talked fair, because I grew up in an environment where talk was cheap and power was routinely abused by many men. It took me a long time before I got to the point where I'd seriously consider the possiblity that men sexually interested in women might not be abusive. Sometimes that's where people are coming from. People don't make this stuff up. It's based on their experiences so far.
But, having said that, I can also say that probably the biggest influence on me in changing was hearing the opinions of women I respected. They knew that there are men you can trust, and if they said not all men are bad, I took it on faith even if I didn't have any evidence to back it up myself. So commenting on extreme reactions can make a difference, if they're honest descriptions of different personal experiences/perspectives. |
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Jainaday
in uncertain taste
Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Age: 24
Posts: 1348
Location: in the They
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 2:11 am Post subject: |
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| Haliphron wrote: | | While I occasionally here NT women,usually in their late 20s and 30s but sometimes in their teens/20s go on man-bashing tirades when they feel frustrated with the men in their life AND/OR they have "daddy issues" I really notice A LOT more hostility towards men among Aspie women than NT women. The guys here who bash women are usually doing so out of sexual frustration but I cant quite get why aspie women bash men moreso than NT women. I also notice that *gender*feminism-which is the brand of feminism that asserts that women should get special privelidges that men dont get to have because the cosmos was somehow "unfair" to women . BTW Hale_bopp, Why are you sexist, eh? |
God, yes. We can vote and own property, what on earth are we still whining about. . . |
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Rynok
Velociraptor
Joined: Jun 11, 2008
Age: 23
Posts: 416
Location: San Antonio, Texas
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:13 am Post subject: |
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If you want to talk about sexism, I'm of the opinion that things are now in women's favor as far as that stuff goes.
Yes, some men want sex, and any warm body cavity will do for them.
By the same token, there are women that only want sex from guys..but do they get called out for sexual harassment? No, because guys are expected to not only love that attention, but to crave it and give in to it.
It is similar to a guy claiming that he was raped by a girl. Not gonna happen, and probably wouldn't fly in court.
If the guy is asking for sex, that means he wants it.
If you say "No" (which is within your rights to do, you should feel free to exercise said rights) and he leaves you, then you know what he was after.
If you say "No" and he is fine with that, then you know he was just asking.
There is nothing wrong with "testing the waters" to see where a person stands on issues.
It is similar to asking them their views on abortion. |
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Jainaday
in uncertain taste
Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Age: 24
Posts: 1348
Location: in the They
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:22 am Post subject: |
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| rape isn't actually the only issue involved in equality. |
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Rynok
Velociraptor
Joined: Jun 11, 2008
Age: 23
Posts: 416
Location: San Antonio, Texas
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:30 am Post subject: |
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I'm fully aware that "equality" is not based upon a single issue.
To name a few others so you don't think I'm retarded:
Income Level (Girls make less than guys on average)
Draft (Girls aren't included in a Draft that will probably never occur again in the US)
Sexual Stereotypes in General
Cultural Standards ("Save the Women & Children!" & "Look your best to attract a man")
Politics (Women for President? Hillary still got quite a bit of grief for that, although it is legal) |
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Jainaday
in uncertain taste
Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Age: 24
Posts: 1348
Location: in the They
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:41 am Post subject: |
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| Rynok wrote: | I'm fully aware that "equality" is not based upon a single issue.
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ah, well. . . it's just that you stated that you felt women come out ahead currently, and then supported it with a single issue argument. |
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Rynok
Velociraptor
Joined: Jun 11, 2008
Age: 23
Posts: 416
Location: San Antonio, Texas
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:55 am Post subject: |
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It was the cleanest argument that I had
For instance, on the income argument: Women get pregnant, it is a risk to the company that they end up taking upwards of a 2-3 months off of work when they do (paid or not, it costs productivity). It is similar to how people that live in Florida pay more for house insurance than someone in Alabama.
Culture- Not much you can argue there. It's culture, and it takes a long time to change. Just read the news. If a women or a child dies from something, they tend to exaggerate it and expound upon it and talk about how it is such a horrible thing. If a guy dies, who cares. (If a guy is the killer, it is "to be expected". If the girl is the killer, you get a more "surprised" reaction out of people). The Draft & Politics are also cultural issues. Another example is how women typically expect the guys to be the ones to make the first move. Guys generally are the "spenders" and the girls are the "receivers". (Look at any engagement/wedding. Who gets the nice ring? What do you buy a girl on Valentines to show her you love her? What does the guy get?...)
Sexual Stereotypes- Already talked about this to a small degree. Most of it is cultural based, so I won't delve into it. Needless to say, guys are still seen as the "sex kings" and women are seen as the ones's who are in charge of saying "No".
It is too late for me to explain why I think women come out ahead, but several of the "remedies" used to make women "equal" have led to them getting advantages over men instead of actually being truly equal.
Not that I really care either way. It is fun to think about at times is all. |
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