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NeantHumain
Phoenix
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Joined: Jun 25, 2004
Posts: 3722
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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 Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| This bizarre way of talking is confusing. |
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aspergian_mutant
Learning to Walk
Joined: Oct 28, 2004
Posts: 1486
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 9:37 am Post subject: |
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| what the school had done is wrong, of that I have no doubts, alls I was saying is to me it seems that if they (the parents) give up being with the opposite sex as a mate then they should give up on having the benefits that come with it (having children), male or female, I am always afraid the parents (if its the same sex child) will abuse the child, or worst yet the child will want to be like their parents and decide the gay life is for them as well before knowing what normal is in the nature of human relationships (within reason). |
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BeeBee
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 01, 2005
Posts: 2257
Location: Upper Midwest, USA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you, aspergian_mutant, for stating your position in a reasonable voice. I hope we all can continue this discussion in the same calm voice.
| Quote: | | worst yet the child will want to be like their parents and decide the gay life is for them as well before knowing what normal is in the nature of human relationships (within reason). |
I'm pretty sure studies have been done that show this is not the case. Children in gay families tend to experient with gay sex more often then children in straight families but ultimately are gay, bi, or whatever in about the same % as the population as a whole. Even if they did turn out gay in a larger % I don't see how that is bad.
| Quote: | | I am always afraid the parents (if its the same sex child) will abuse the child, |
Are you suggesting that hetro family should split when the children hit puberty? The male children go with the father and the female children go with the mother? Would this not be the logical flip side of this concern?
BeeBee |
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Bec
Cramazing
Joined: Aug 18, 2004
Age: 21
Posts: 1916
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| BeeBee wrote: | | Quote: | | I am always afraid the parents (if its the same sex child) will abuse the child, |
Are you suggesting that hetro family should split when the children hit puberty? The male children go with the father and the female children go with the mother? Would this not be the logical flip side of this concern? |
Good point, BeeBee. Unfortunately, I've heard that argument against gay parents before. It seems that some people think gay is the same as pedophile. It is NOT even remotely the same thing! |
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Yupa
Avatar of Evil
Joined: May 15, 2005
Age: 18
Posts: 1315
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| It's stupid that they expelled her because her parents were gay. That was really horrible of them. They have no right to expel people because of their sexual preference, or, worse yet, to expel them because they're closely -related- to homosexuals. It's just messed up. I don't usually get angry, but stuff like this.... arggh, it's stupid, just mad stupid. What's the school's adress? (or their principal's e-mail adress?) |
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Yupa
Avatar of Evil
Joined: May 15, 2005
Age: 18
Posts: 1315
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 7:08 pm Post subject: Re: School Expels Girl for Having Gay Parents |
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| aspergian_mutant wrote: |
what disturbs me about this article is simply that the Lady's are going out and getting knocked up to have children without the man most likely even knowing, ill bet gay men can not do that (but if they could I wouldn't want them to)(I do not believe gay couples should be raising children IE bringing them into this world when they did not have the children to begin with from other natural relationships. err, by going out and getting knocked up for to have children while in a gay relationship.). |
Okay, that comment was extremely ignorant. And so was your 'abuse' comment. You obviously don't know what you're talking about there. |
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Sean
Banned
Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 3503
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Bec wrote: | | Good point, BeeBee. Unfortunately, I've heard that argument against gay parents before. It seems that some people think gay is the same as pedophile. It is NOT even remotely the same thing! |
Either way, if the school didn't expel the kid, they would have been in a better position to keep an eye on the "parents" activities. |
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Bec
Cramazing
Joined: Aug 18, 2004
Age: 21
Posts: 1916
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Sean wrote: | | Bec wrote: | | Good point, BeeBee. Unfortunately, I've heard that argument against gay parents before. It seems that some people think gay is the same as pedophile. It is NOT even remotely the same thing! |
Either way, if the school didn't expel the kid, they would have been in a better position to keep an eye on the "parents" activities. |
Why? |
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Yupa
Avatar of Evil
Joined: May 15, 2005
Age: 18
Posts: 1315
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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Because he is a homophobe. |
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eamonn
not viable
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Joined: Jul 09, 2005
Posts: 2296
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| If they are tidy i wouldnt mind keeping "an eye on the parents activities". |
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adversarial
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 09, 2005
Posts: 544
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Sean wrote: | | Bec wrote: | | Good point, BeeBee. Unfortunately, I've heard that argument against gay parents before. It seems that some people think gay is the same as pedophile. It is NOT even remotely the same thing! |
Either way, if the school didn't expel the kid, they would have been in a better position to keep an eye on the "parents" activities. |
Interestingly enought, back in the late 1980's, there was some controversy in the UK concerning a virulently sadistic 'pornographic' story in a lesbian/feminist magazine, which featured a supposedly 'erotic' story involving the torture and mutilation of a prepubertal boy at the hands of a lesbian couple.
Quite apart from the ugly hysterical reaction from some sections of the media, the fact that such a fiction can be created is rather disturbing.
It also questions the wisdom of creating a gender apartheid along the lines of 'women look after boys', while 'men look after girls'.
This is all disturbing and distressing stuff and I think that although siimplistic reactions concerning whether or not 'pretend' families can be constructed out of so many divergent sources, we really ought to be thinking in terms of the child's welfare over and above the noisily-declaimed and histrionic demands of the 'parents'.
I really cannot see why the priority should not be focussed on the needs, safety and well-being of the child, with the parents being somewhat secondary in the considerations.
_________________
"The power of accurate observation is called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw (Taken from someone on comp.programming) |
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aspergian_mutant
Learning to Walk
Joined: Oct 28, 2004
Posts: 1486
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 9:40 am Post subject: |
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In the previous decades and the decades these people grew up in they had to deal with many prejudice's,
this would have rubbed off on many during that generation, perhaps making gay and lesbian people dislike normal people if not hate them, so what mostly was my concern for abuse was not that I think they would sexually abuse the children, but instead them letting the children know how they feel about in a negative way getting the child to think or feel that its perhaps better and more right to be and live the same life stile as the parents instead of going out with a clear mind and making their own choices, parents can greatly influence the children's opinions and once there influenced children can become vary obstinate and set in there ways of thinking and if their truly not gay or bi then they will end up miserable with much unneeded problems to deal with in their own hearts and minds, and the child will have to deal with other hurtful children jearing and teasing them about there parents, making them feel angry or hurt or envious or any of the like toward the other children and the parents them selves. and if the sex of the child is the same as the parents then it may well confuse the child as to what IS normal in the nature of things.
and yes, a part of me feels its not fair or right as an inequality that a couple girls can give up men and go have children where the male couples can not, yes they can adopt but its not the same thing and most adoption places wouldn't stand for it, which leads me to feel that if they give up a sexual mate (as in the opposite sex) that they can have children with then perhaps they should forfeit that right that nature has given man/woman couples to reproduce, I never said this is right, its just how I feel about it.
and if you notice, this couple was in a relationship long before the children was thought of, telling me that they gone out and got laid by some perhaps unknowing male or getting artificially inseminated. a male can not do that, not without the woman knowing and approving that is. the children was not a product of previous man/woman relationships.
I guess what mostly eats at me about this part of it is back when I thought I was going to be single and alone forever,- I got to the point of giving up on finding a girl and just wished I could have a child to love and be my friend and raise and no longer be alone and I was envious of girls for them being able to go get knocked up and be able to do this basically without the male knowing and having that child I wish I had. so yes its a sore spot. this has nothing to do with gay or bi though, it has more to do with inequality's.
as for the schooling, as far as I am concerned, every child no matter what their backgrounds are deserves the right to an education and a fair chance to make it in this world as all the rest. the school was wrong. |
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chamoisee
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 28, 2004
Age: 37
Posts: 922
Location: Idaho
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | which leads me to feel that if they give up a sexual mate (as in the opposite sex) that they can have children with then perhaps they should forfeit that right that nature has given man/woman couples to reproduce |
By that same logic, a single woman should not get pregnant unless she is in a relationship with a guy and should forfeit ever having sex (since, after all, an unintended pregnancy might be the result).
Biology isn't fair, get over it.
I could cite a number of instances in which nature is salnted towards the guy and against the female. For one, most STD's are sexist by nature- they affect the man very little but have much more severe effects on the woman. Often the guy doesn't even know he has them, because his symptoms are non-existent or very mild, but he can go and infect some woman (who then gets cervical cancer, or tubal scarring, leading to ectopic pregnancies or infertility...).
When a guy has unprotected sex with a woman of whatever persuasion, he takes the risk that he will father a child. If he doesn't like it, he has a very good alternative: use a condom or keep it in his pants.
It is almost impossible for a woman to forcibly get pregnant by a man, whereas the reverse is relatively common.
I am sorry, we aspies often do have painful histories, but friend, yours is no excuse to make thousands of women miserable by forcing them to choose between the love of their life and the option of childbearing.  |
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eamonn
not viable
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Joined: Jul 09, 2005
Posts: 2296
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| chamoisee wrote: |
When a guy has unprotected sex with a woman of whatever persuasion, he takes the risk that he will father a child. If he doesn't like it, he has a very good alternative: use a condom or keep it in his pants.
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Like you reminded me of more than once. Nothings 100%. Anyway it is rather decietful of a woman to just use a man to get pregnant if she doesnt love him. Not the sort of person that should be raising children. |
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chamoisee
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 28, 2004
Age: 37
Posts: 922
Location: Idaho
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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<shrug>
It's deceitful of a guy to use a woman for sex if he doesn't love her, but they do it all the time. |
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