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RadiantAspie
Deinonychus
Joined: Oct 04, 2007
Posts: 373
Location: Surfing the Net
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 Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:09 pm Post subject: NOVA on Intelligent Design |
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On another message board I read that the NOVA program on PBS is going to show something on intelligent design, to comply with their wish that it should treated "fairly" on such shows designed to inform the general public about science.
Unfortunately for the ID'ers, this upcoming show is intended to DEBUNK them yet again, and this time in front of the masses.
It is going to primarily cover the events that happened in 2004 when a town in Penn, known as Dover, the science teachers refused to promote ID as a science or an alternative theory. Of course, this sparked a lawsuit from the fundamentalists and everything became a big mess. Needless to say, they lost and ID is not being taught or even mentioned (phew!).
Here is information about the program: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/
And here is another article about it: http://newsblaze.com/story/200710101...laze-Wire.html
Its going to come out sometime in November, and I'm most certainly going to watch it. Its about time that a major media outlet finally presents the fact that there is no contest between evolution and ID, that ID is NOT SCIENCE, and that it should not even be considered as such and deserves no mention anywhere (It isn't even good philosophy. In short, it is total trash). Given the large audience that NOVA usually generates on hot topics, maybe the public will be much better informed... Regardless, its certainly a step in the right direction.
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Philosophy: A good way to demonstrate our ability to make stuff up.
Religion: A good way to demonstrate our ability to believe things that just aren't so. |
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Quatermass
Cynical, Sardonic, and Generally Ironic
Joined: Apr 28, 2006
Posts: 18449
Location: On the Liberator...
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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We usually have stuff on ID in the PPR forum, cos it's controversial, religious, and philosophical. Doesn't mean it ain't wrong, though. May I move it to the PPR forum? Lot more coverage and debate......
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BLAKE: You said persuasion wouldn't work and it didn't. So now we use force.
AVON: Force? Yes, of course. Law makers, law breakers, let us fight them all. Why not?
-Blake's 7, 'Shadow' |
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RadiantAspie
Deinonychus
Joined: Oct 04, 2007
Posts: 373
Location: Surfing the Net
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Quatermass wrote: | | We usually have stuff on ID in the PPR forum, cos it's controversial, religious, and philosophical. Doesn't mean it ain't wrong, though. May I move it to the PPR forum? Lot more coverage and debate...... |
sure, probably more suited there anyway.
_________________
Philosophy: A good way to demonstrate our ability to make stuff up.
Religion: A good way to demonstrate our ability to believe things that just aren't so. |
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Quatermass
Cynical, Sardonic, and Generally Ironic
Joined: Apr 28, 2006
Posts: 18449
Location: On the Liberator...
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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| RadiantAspie wrote: | | Quatermass wrote: | | We usually have stuff on ID in the PPR forum, cos it's controversial, religious, and philosophical. Doesn't mean it ain't wrong, though. May I move it to the PPR forum? Lot more coverage and debate...... |
sure, probably more suited there anyway. |
It's up to you. Just don't get offended if any religious types decide to go all Ridley on you and flame.
You still want it moved?
BTW, Adam Savage wants to do a Mythbusters episode, if possible, that busts ID wide open.
_________________
BLAKE: You said persuasion wouldn't work and it didn't. So now we use force.
AVON: Force? Yes, of course. Law makers, law breakers, let us fight them all. Why not?
-Blake's 7, 'Shadow' |
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RadiantAspie
Deinonychus
Joined: Oct 04, 2007
Posts: 373
Location: Surfing the Net
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Quatermass"]
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It's up to you. Just don't get offended if any religious types decide to go all Ridley on you and flame.
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Don't worry about it. I will still expect those people to put up or shut up (meaning they either come up with an effective counter-argument or they will leave the thread, or be ignored. Not that its going to be possible since ID is so flawed in every way...).
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You still want it moved?
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I'm alright with it.
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BTW, Adam Savage wants to do a Mythbusters episode, if possible, that busts ID wide open. |
Really? Nice. I will most certainly see it if they do actually show it!
_________________
Philosophy: A good way to demonstrate our ability to make stuff up.
Religion: A good way to demonstrate our ability to believe things that just aren't so. |
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Quatermass
Cynical, Sardonic, and Generally Ironic
Joined: Apr 28, 2006
Posts: 18449
Location: On the Liberator...
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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Alea jacta est.
Welcome to the PPR forum....
_________________
BLAKE: You said persuasion wouldn't work and it didn't. So now we use force.
AVON: Force? Yes, of course. Law makers, law breakers, let us fight them all. Why not?
-Blake's 7, 'Shadow' |
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RadiantAspie
Deinonychus
Joined: Oct 04, 2007
Posts: 373
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Quatermass.
For those who are proponents of ID, or those who have an extreme hatred for religion (or disbelieve it), I will ask that you keep discussions and debates civil. Ad hominems and other logical fallacies will not be tolerated, and I will ask to have those posts that are to be removed if necessary.
Also, despite what most think, there is NO conflict between science and religion, and evolution does NOT exclude the possibility of the existence of a deity. I would suggest you look at this FAQ before you go off bashing each other: http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-qa.html
With that in mind, I would like to here what you guys think? Or any input? Or whatever.....
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Philosophy: A good way to demonstrate our ability to make stuff up.
Religion: A good way to demonstrate our ability to believe things that just aren't so. |
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Chuchulainn
Banned
Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Posts: 203
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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My opinion is that evolution is not contradictory with theism. But eventually you have to come down to the main point, which can never be explained rationally.
What created the laws of physics?
What created the forces that created matter?
Why do these things exist?
The atheist may say "They were always there," but that is not reasonable. Matter is unspiritual and must have a beginning and an end. We can say God was always there because he is a transcendent being beyond human understanding. There is no choice but to accept that some mystical force, or some God (one, in my humble and non inflamatory opinion, can be scratched out) created the world.
The following gods can be scratched out for these reasons.
Allah-advocates violence, world domination
The remaining gods may still exist because they are nonviolent and advocate peace and love-from Hecate to Buddha-at least the ones I know. I choose to worship Yahweh. But it is evident that the Muslim god is not true-he is a demon if he is anything.
Despite how the phrase may sound inflamatory, I am not advocating any genocides or anything but loving Muslims as human beings, even though they degrade non-Muslims to be animals and have no regard for religious tolerance. |
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RadiantAspie
Deinonychus
Joined: Oct 04, 2007
Posts: 373
Location: Surfing the Net
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Chuchulainn wrote: |
The following gods can be scratched out for these reasons.
Allah-advocates violence, world domination
The remaining gods may still exist because they are nonviolent and advocate peace and love-from Hecate to Buddha-at least the ones I know. I choose to worship Yahweh. But it is evident that the Muslim god is not true-he is a demon if he is anything.
Despite how the phrase may sound inflamatory, I am not advocating any genocides or anything but loving Muslims as human beings, even though they degrade non-Muslims to be animals and have no regard for religious tolerance. |
Except for the fact that Yahweh and Allah are the same God, just with different names. And most Muslims are not intolerant of other religions. Historically they have been more so than Christians....
But that is going off topic.
_________________
Philosophy: A good way to demonstrate our ability to make stuff up.
Religion: A good way to demonstrate our ability to believe things that just aren't so. |
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Quatermass
Cynical, Sardonic, and Generally Ironic
Joined: Apr 28, 2006
Posts: 18449
Location: On the Liberator...
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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And let the flames begin.....
_________________
BLAKE: You said persuasion wouldn't work and it didn't. So now we use force.
AVON: Force? Yes, of course. Law makers, law breakers, let us fight them all. Why not?
-Blake's 7, 'Shadow' |
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Chuchulainn
Banned
Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Posts: 203
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:20 am Post subject: |
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| RadiantAspie wrote: | | Chuchulainn wrote: |
The following gods can be scratched out for these reasons.
Allah-advocates violence, world domination
The remaining gods may still exist because they are nonviolent and advocate peace and love-from Hecate to Buddha-at least the ones I know. I choose to worship Yahweh. But it is evident that the Muslim god is not true-he is a demon if he is anything.
Despite how the phrase may sound inflamatory, I am not advocating any genocides or anything but loving Muslims as human beings, even though they degrade non-Muslims to be animals and have no regard for religious tolerance. |
Except for the fact that Yahweh and Allah are the same God, just with different names. And most Muslims are not intolerant of other religions. Historically they have been more so than Christians....
But that is going off topic. |
What a pack of lies. Christianity is the most persecuted religion in the entire world, yet it is the largest. That testifies to its inherent power. Wherever perseuction begins, membership explodes. Unlike in Islam, where people martyr themselves in a painless death so they can go to heaven and fornicate all day long. |
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jfrmeister
Velociraptor
Joined: Aug 11, 2007
Age: 39
Posts: 447
Location: #2309 WP'er
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| Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:23 am Post subject: |
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| RadiantAspie wrote: | | Also, despite what most think, there is NO conflict between science and religion, and evolution does NOT exclude the possibility of the existence of a deity. |
While this may be true in theory, ID is christian based, and DOES conflict with evolution since it teaches that the earth is 6,000 to 10,000 years old. Biblical creation contradicts observeable fact, dosn't allow its self to be questioned (not falsifiable) and is therefore not science.
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"The christian god is a being of terrific character; cruel, vindictive, capricious and unjust" - Thomas Jefferson |
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RadiantAspie
Deinonychus
Joined: Oct 04, 2007
Posts: 373
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| Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| jfrmeister wrote: |
While this may be true in theory, ID is christian based, and DOES conflict with evolution since it teaches that the earth is 6,000 to 10,000 years old. Biblical creation contradicts observeable fact, dosn't allow its self to be questioned (not falsifiable) and is therefore not science.
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It is Christian based, but it is only upheld by a very small minority, usually fundamentalists. Actually, fundamentalism rose in the 19th century when it was clear that empirical evidence contradicted the bible if interpreted literally, so there rose the idea of a literal, errant bible.
Regardless of its origins or who upholds it, biblical creation does exactly what you outlined. All ID does is introduce a bunch of gobblygook and tries to pass itself off as a science, though it is just another lame attempt to bring religion into the science classroom and everyone knows it, among other problems with it....
| Chuchulainn wrote: |
What a pack of lies. Christianity is the most persecuted religion in the entire world, yet it is the largest. That testifies to its inherent power. Wherever perseuction begins, membership explodes. Unlike in Islam, where people martyr themselves in a painless death so they can go to heaven and fornicate all day long.
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A quick search on wikipedia will prove otherwise. And no, Christianity is not the most persecuted religion in the world. In fact there was no widespread persecution of Christianity since Roman times. Upholders of the faith have done their fair share of persecution regardless, whether it is Islam or Christianity or otherwise. Otherwise what we have here is a gross misunderstanding.
As I said before this is totally off topic. You have been warned and I will not ask you again.
_________________
Philosophy: A good way to demonstrate our ability to make stuff up.
Religion: A good way to demonstrate our ability to believe things that just aren't so. |
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RadiantAspie
Deinonychus
Joined: Oct 04, 2007
Posts: 373
Location: Surfing the Net
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| Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:46 am Post subject: |
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| Quatermass wrote: |
And let the flames begin..... |
I like flames, especially the hot ones 
_________________
Philosophy: A good way to demonstrate our ability to make stuff up.
Religion: A good way to demonstrate our ability to believe things that just aren't so. |
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Sand
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 6123
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:54 am Post subject: |
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| There is one fundamental very basic conflict between religion and science. Science is based on the belief that there are laws in the universe that determine its behavior and that they can be discovered and understood and are inviolate. Religion believes that there is a supreme being that can do anything it wants with the universe and create a miracle if it so chooses to violate universal laws. Some people defend the belief in a creator by saying it exists but does not violate universal laws. If so, insofar as science is concerned, the existence of the universal being (or UB) is irrelevant. |
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