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| Total Votes : 133 |
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Joybob
Velociraptor
Joined: Sep 23, 2007
Posts: 460
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 Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| Netish wrote: | A) God does exist
B) yes he did allow it to happen
C) all humans are born with original sin since the fall of adam and eve
D) it was humans' choice to cause the Holocaust
E) God allows humans to make their own choices even if they're bad |
A) Where's the proof?
B) If so then God is a malevolent being as the Holocaust had no positive repercussions to counteract the vast amount of suffering caused.
C) Again, God must be malevolent if he punishes innocent people for the actions of 2 people living thousands of years ago.
D) The Jews chose to walk into the gas chambers?
E) That ignores most of what we know about neurobiology which shows that free will cannot exist. |
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h4x0r
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Jul 30, 2007
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| Joybob wrote: | | Netish wrote: | A) God does exist
B) yes he did allow it to happen
C) all humans are born with original sin since the fall of adam and eve
D) it was humans' choice to cause the Holocaust
E) God allows humans to make their own choices even if they're bad |
A) Where's the proof?
B) If so then God is a malevolent being as the Holocaust had no positive repercussions to counteract the vast amount of suffering caused.
C) Again, God must be malevolent if he punishes innocent people for the actions of 2 people living thousands of years ago.
D) The Jews chose to walk into the gas chambers?
E) That ignores most of what we know about neurobiology which shows that free will cannot exist. |
I'm going to use A to answer to "Netish" and B to Answer to "Joybob"
A) A May I ask if you've ever summed up the courage to look past what your family or friends have told you? If you were born in some parts of China you'd be a buddhist and not think of god at all, think of it.
B There is no proof, there's actually more proof there isn't a god then there is. For example religions like Christianity, Islam, Judism and possibly others believe that god is omnipotent (as in he can literatly do anything). Now heres a question: Can god make a tree that he himself cannot destroy? If he does that and cannot destroy the tree he cannot do anything because he couldn't destroy the tree, and of course if he can destroy the tree he cannot make a tree that he can't destroy. Thus that proves that no being, even if there is a god can do anything which also proves one portion of those 3 religions wrong which from there I would start to question everything else that's either not possible or lies, which theres plenty more examples like the one above.
B) A Well.. uh.. If there is a God he refuses to contact us anyway, (as in hes never before shown himself that he exists to humans in the past unless your gullable enough to believe the bible) So why would he come here just to stop the halocaust? Sounds pretty awkward to me. So I suppose
B If God exists he is definatley a VERY horrible being, all the things hes done have made this world a disturbing, greed-infested, dirty bathtub. Damn, I mean my cat could have done a better job.. What an idiot? And he has no control at all over any of his children, what a terrible parent. 
C) A Your a creationist too? Erm.. most Modern Christians I know believe in evolution by now..
B yes it appears god has still not forgiven Adam and Eve for having sex and thus takes it out on every other human, what a good base for a religion!
D) A Jews aren't humans... Wow you learn something new everyday..
B Unless they wanted to go to Heaven that bad, nope 
E) AYeah it seems God makes some pretty bad/evil choices too.
B yepp, well put.
My Opinion: Religion is for the weak minded, as in people who are afraid to think about death or past god, or their family's teachings and it's very sad, and is more harm to society than help, actually it doesn't help us at all so it's just hurtful.
Last edited by h4x0r on Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:06 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Netish
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Oct 21, 2007
Posts: 62
Location: FL
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:03 am Post subject: |
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1) I addressed the proof issue in one of my previous posts.
2) God is not malevolent. Though it may not seem so, the Holocaust happened for a reason. We may not understand right now, and may never understand. However, think of how many of our decisions have been based on things because the Holocaust DID happen. Even the smallest decision has the ability to change the world.
3) Sin is in all people. Humans were made perfect but they chose to take fruit from the tree of knowlege rather than remain perfect. God allowed them the decision thus allowing them to choose for all future generations.
4) God did care though and sent His son to die of the cross to pay for all sins from the beginning to the end. All past, present, and future. All you have to do to be forgiven is believe.
5) Yes, the Jews did choose to walk in. They could have sat down and be dragged. They could have attacked the guards and be killed. Numerous other things could have happened. In the end, yes they did choose. Just because there was no good choice doesn't mean there was no choice at all.
6) Considering that God made humans do you really think he can be limited by it?
Last edited by Netish on Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Joybob
Velociraptor
Joined: Sep 23, 2007
Posts: 460
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:08 am Post subject: |
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To H4x0r: Stop arguing with me. We're supposed to be on the same side.
To Netish: That's the most messed up thing I've read in my life. |
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h4x0r
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Jul 30, 2007
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| Joybob wrote: | To H4x0r: Stop arguing with me. We're supposed to be on the same side.
To Netish: That's the most messed up thing I've read in my life. |
JoyBob: I wasn't trying to argue with anyone, I just posted my opinions by answering some of your questions to Netish. I'm not exactly taking sides either though I'm an atheist so obviously I'm going to agree with you more over Netish. |
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blossom_bottom
Butterfly
Joined: Oct 22, 2007
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| I am Christian |
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Ben_Cardwell
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Oct 23, 2007
Posts: 57
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| God help me, I'm a Baptist. |
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squatterandtheant
Phoenix
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Joined: Mar 07, 2007
Posts: 531
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Thank God I'm an atheist. |
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Netish
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Oct 21, 2007
Posts: 62
Location: FL
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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A) First of all I have indeed studied other religions. I have also studied psychology and ethics on my own and as part of school courses. So YES, I have looked outside my original religious teachings.
B) God DOES contact us all the time. Most of the time we don't even realize it. The people who do try to tell their experiences are often just dismissed. The Bible is completely true and there are many things that prove it. Since you seem so gung-ho on proof I will give you an example. They have found noah's ark.
C) If people claim to be Christians and don't believe in creation then they are lying. You cannot be a Christian if you do not believe God created the world. Adam and Eve were not banished from the Garden of Eden for having sex obviously you have no basis for any of your fradulent claims if you can't even get BASIC facts straight. They were banished for eating fruit from the tree of knowledge, the one thing God clearly told them NOT to do. |
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Netish
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Oct 21, 2007
Posts: 62
Location: FL
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="h4x0r"] | Joybob wrote: |
My Opinion: Religion is for the weak minded, as in people who are afraid to think about death or past god, or their family's teachings and it's very sad, and is more harm to society than help, actually it doesn't help us at all so it's just hurtful. |
It is the weak minded who chose to judge without any basis or fact. True Christians are not afraid to think about death. It is often ENCOURAGED to think about it. Clearly you have not had anywhere near a solid religious teaching experience. I suggest before you make more mistakes, stupid assumptions, and state more untrue facts, that you do a little research. Christianity does not harm society, sin does, no human besides Jesus was, is or will be perfect. Obvioulsly you have some misguided notions about what Christianity is really about and have been exposed to flawed teachings by people who claim to be Christians but really are not. And please read my other posts because some of these things I keep having to repeat. |
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h4x0r
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Jul 30, 2007
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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| squatterandtheant wrote: | | Thank God I'm an atheist. |
Lol, I forget where I've heard that before..
| Netish wrote: | | h4x0r wrote: |
My Opinion: Religion is for the weak minded, as in people who are afraid to think about death or past god, or their family's teachings and it's very sad, and is more harm to society than help, actually it doesn't help us at all so it's just hurtful. |
It is the weak minded who chose to judge without any basis or fact. True Christians are not afraid to think about death. It is often ENCOURAGED to think about it. Clearly you have not had anywhere near a solid religious teaching experience. I suggest before you make more mistakes, stupid assumptions, and state more untrue facts, that you do a little research. Christianity does not harm society, sin does, no human besides Jesus was, is or will be perfect. Obvioulsly you have some misguided notions about what Christianity is really about and have been exposed to flawed teachings by people who claim to be Christians but really are not. And please read my other posts because some of these things I keep having to repeat. |
Your issue is your research ends at the Bible and your church which isn't research at all. I was born a catholic, I even went to catholic school it's all bullshit my parents forced on me. Your problem is when you think about death you ONLY think about God, Jesus and only Christian things which are all nonsense. I for one used to think like that, which was very bad of myself, to only look at one option and force myself to think it, that was abuse on my parents part, I'm very lucky and happy I woke up at such a young age. Anyhow, I'm a very open person, I've studied about 5 religions, (Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Wicca) and I've done my research and I don't agree with anyone of them. I live in a christian-dominated house, I know everything about the religion, I've even read the ENTIRE bible, which most christians haven't even done that. Your like any other religious extremist, your right and everyone else is wrong right? Let me tell you something, If god exists he is definitely NOT perfect. God arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully (yes I stole that from a book I read it's a good quote though ). And I too seem to have to repeat myself:
"There is no proof, there's actually more proof there isn't a god then there is. For example religions like Christianity, Islam, Judism and possibly others believe that god is omnipotent (as in he can literately do anything). Now heres a question: Can god make a tree that he himself cannot destroy? If he does that and cannot destroy the tree he cannot do anything because he couldn't destroy the tree, and of course if he can destroy the tree he cannot make a tree that he can't destroy. Thus that proves that no being, even if there is a god can do anything which also proves one portion of those 3 religions wrong which from there I would start to question everything else that's either not possible or lies, which theres plenty more examples like the one above."
The most common Christian response to this question is either "But God would have no need to do that.", "But God wouldn't do that." or my favorite "God could do it if he really wanted to.". All of these are responses I've gotten from christians attempting to answer that question, all do not relate to the question at all or make any sense. The point is it's impossible for God to do what I said above whether he wanted to or not, thus omnipotence is impossible and thats one fact in those religions that aren't true, heres another interesting question: If God is the only one who can create, and he is Omniscience (which literately means he knows everything), he created Evil. Why is this? It's actually called the "Theodice Problem" google it for more info but I'll provide a short summary of it. If God made Angels and Heaven, wouldn't he already know he would send Satan to Hell and he would create Evil? And if God is the only one who can create, and he knows everything, it was his ideal from the start to create Evil. Another thing I myself find funny is the Adam and Eve story, according to you they had Sex and god never forgave them. Can all you christians stop having sex? If you can please do, we could use a decrease of your population plus you'd make your god happy.
And heres one last thing I personally want you to know, If it ever hurts you to read things against christianity, it's not good for you. And I really do recommend you look past that very flawed religion, and do *your* research, because I've done mine enough to know there is not a God. And I know I made this post long but I had a lot to say. |
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Netish
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Oct 21, 2007
Posts: 62
Location: FL
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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obviously you didn't actually READ my post. I have read other things than just the bible. And I said God did NOT banish Adam and Eve for having sex. Please read more carefully.
Yes, I HAVE read the entire bible.
Yes, we DO think about other aspects of death besides just Christian views.
If about the tree issue you are refering to the tree of knowledge, yes God could have destroyed it. That is not the point. The point is he gave humans free will to chose.
No, reading things against Christianity, and or reading about other religions does not hurt me. I have no idea where you got that theory from.
Finally as for the question of evil, I find it best to refer you to this book due to the length of the explanation. The stance of Kreeft and Tacelli, Handbook of Christian Apologetics, pgs 132-133. |
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fadinglite
Emu Egg
Joined: Oct 16, 2007
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| I am a Christian |
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Joybob
Velociraptor
Joined: Sep 23, 2007
Posts: 460
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Netish wrote: | obviously you didn't actually READ my post. I have read other things than just the bible. And I said God did NOT banish Adam and Eve for having sex. Please read more carefully.
Yes, I HAVE read the entire bible.
Yes, we DO think about other aspects of death besides just Christian views.
If about the tree issue you are refering to the tree of knowledge, yes God could have destroyed it. That is not the point. The point is he gave humans free will to chose.
No, reading things against Christianity, and or reading about other religions does not hurt me. I have no idea where you got that theory from.
Finally as for the question of evil, I find it best to refer you to this book due to the length of the explanation. The stance of Kreeft and Tacelli, Handbook of Christian Apologetics, pgs 132-133. |
Apologetics have long since been discredited. I would suggest you look elsewhere. |
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Netish
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Oct 21, 2007
Posts: 62
Location: FL
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Joybob wrote: |
Apologetics have long since been discredited. I would suggest you look elsewhere. |
How about I pull one of your tricks? Prove it. |
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