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nobodyzdream
Whistling in the dark...
Joined: Apr 24, 2007
Age: 28
Posts: 1935
Location: St. Charles, MO-USA
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 Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:57 am Post subject: Is proper grammar really going downhill? |
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I noticed on some forum I was reading (not here), about a case where a bus driver is being sued apparently because the children refused to get back on the bus (it had broken down or something and was fixed), so he drove off... In the responses, some were fairly intelligent, but then it started to cease towards the bottom. I noticed it went from poor spelling, to just plain not making sense, lol, and someone said "Not to slur race, but I bet the driver was a female..."
Now, this got me thinking, after people were calling the kids names and such throughout it, that the intelligence level dropped drastically after this guy/girl posted, and it got me wondering...
Are people really getting more careless over time? Is grammar just getting to the point where it doesn't matter how one speaks or what someone knows about basic things? ...or am I just getting more nit picky?
I'm not saying that I speak perfectly or anything, I make all kinds of mistakes, but I catch them fairly quickly normally, and if I don't, and am corrected, I admit it and fix it. But a lot of these people just really don't seem to care, or they become defensive after something of that nature is pointed out. Is that just people being defensive and not wanting to admit they are wrong? Does it just make them feel stupid or something? Why do people not realize these things, or attempt to fix it?
Sorry, lol, somewhat trying to sort it out. It just really doesn't make any sense that these types of things are often overlooked, or will never change. It is almost as if people prefer things to just not make sense, or to sound ridiculous.
Now, if somebody has a good reason for not rewording something, or if they cannot figure it out per say, that is a bit different. It will still bother me a bit, but I will not harp on them for it, because I understand. But a lot of these people really have no good reason, and seem to just prefer not speaking clearly and speaking improperly.
Which leads me, I suppose, to the question of: Is this just something that is going downhill? Or has it always been present, but not in as noticeable instances and in smaller amounts of it?
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2ukenkerl
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Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 4890
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:56 am Post subject: |
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It has ALWAYS existed, but it IS, obviously, getting WORSE! You KNOW it is bad when people take PRIDE in it and even call it another language, like "ebonics"! Yet they RIDICULE anyone that dares to call them stupid and yell RACISM! BTW THOSE guys, talking in "ebonics", are predominantly black, and DO yell racism. They can be either sex.
Gee, if they want to take pride in their race, and want their own language, let them learn a black one! Oddly, if you said that, and they complied, many might actually pick afrikaans which is ACTUALLY a dutch dialect! 
Of course, I realize others, even whites, do the same, but most whites apparently don't go out of their way to do it, and abonics was just the latest most common example I could think of. In lousiana they have creole which is a mix of pidgins. That has BECOME a prideful thing, to a degree, but apparently developed that way. Even danish and dutch bear a STRONG resemblance to german. You can almost see the evolution of things. |
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monty
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 05, 2007
Posts: 2511
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:04 pm Post subject: Re: Is proper grammar really going downhill? |
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When people were saying stupid things in a locker room or bar, they were the only ones to hear it. Now it goes on the internet and is archived and indexed for everyone. So we get to see their idiot thoughts, bad spelling, atrocious grammar and all.
I think it is a matter of carelessness. In the old days, sending a letter to someone meant that it was worth thinking about what would be written and how it was presented. Today, you can email or text almost anyone anything.
Good writers are generally made, not born. It takes work, it takes time, it takes caring about it. |
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nobodyzdream
Whistling in the dark...
Joined: Apr 24, 2007
Age: 28
Posts: 1935
Location: St. Charles, MO-USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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lol, exactly-it is very much a pride thing. Sorry to disagree though, lol, I see whites do it almost MORE in my area o.O No offense meant to anyone, but usually when I see somebody of a different race, if they are corrected, they will at least acknowledge that what they said is incorrect (when compared to what is considered proper), even if they continue it anyway. That doesn't bother me so much just because they KNOW, and acknowledge it. So they say "well, that is just how I talk-that's just me". They don't get as defensive.
Now, a lot of whites (where I'm at) have this chip on their shoulder that their language was the "right" one to begin with. Get this one... I saw a lady ARGUING that HICK is a language, but TRAILOR TRASH is NOT. How the heck does that argument even make sense??? lol. She argued for a long time over this one, and when she conceded that it was not a language, she decided it was an ACCENT (which I suppose she stated in an attempt to make it non-debatable). I finally had to tell her, "I'm sorry, but an accent isn't a blatant misuse of words altogether." She still argued, though... lol. This happens a lot with them in my area-the whites are definitely more defensive where I'm at.
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Last edited by nobodyzdream on Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:11 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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nobodyzdream
Whistling in the dark...
Joined: Apr 24, 2007
Age: 28
Posts: 1935
Location: St. Charles, MO-USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:08 pm Post subject: Re: Is proper grammar really going downhill? |
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| monty wrote: | When people were saying stupid things in a locker room or bar, they were the only ones to hear it. Now it goes on the internet and is archived and indexed for everyone. So we get to see their idiot thoughts, bad spelling, atrocious grammar and all.
I think it is a matter of carelessness. In the old days, sending a letter to someone meant that it was worth thinking about what would be written and how it was presented. Today, you can email or text almost anyone anything.
Good writers are generally made, not born. It takes work, it takes time, it takes caring about it. |
'tis true. I suppose what gets me, though, more than anything, is that it is generally ACCEPTED! I've seen companies misspell things in their ads, or use HORRIBLE wording, lol. Maybe it's just a hangup of mine, but if a company cannot spell check that sign before hanging it up, or have a few people read over it to make sure it makes sense, then they are not worth going to-if I do go there, I cannot fully take them seriously. Same goes with people on an every day basis for me.
I love it when someone can admit that they are speaking improperly. Just the idea that the others defend it is what really gets me going and thinking about it.
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Last edited by nobodyzdream on Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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2ukenkerl
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 4890
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| nobodyzdream wrote: | lol, exactly-it is very much a pride thing. Sorry to disagree though, lol, I see whites do it almost MORE in my area o.O No offense meant to anyone, but usually when I see somebody of a different race, if they are corrected, they will at least acknowledge that what they said is incorrect, even if they continue it anyway. That doesn't bother me so much just because they KNOW, and acknowledge it. So they say "well, that is just how I talk-that's just me". They don't get as defensive.
Now, a lot of whites have this chip on their shoulder that their language was the "right" one to begin with. Get this one... I saw a lady ARGUING that HICK is a language, but TRAILOR TRASH is NOT. How the heck does that argument even make sense??? lol. She argued for a long time over this one, and when she conceded that it was not a language, she decided it was an ACCENT (which I suppose she stated in an attempt to make it non-debatable). I finally had to tell her, "I'm sorry, but an accent isn't a blatant misuse of words altogether." She still argued, though... lol. This happens a lot with them in my area-the whites are definitely more defensive where I'm at. |
I guess I am lucky. I DO see a lot of whites, especially younger ones, using things like double negatives, adjectives for adverbs, etc... And a lot of "trailer trash" comments ARE based on people being hicks. The "language" is a pidgin, like ebonics. I never knew them to take PRIDE in it though, or declare it a new language! |
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Angelus-Mortis
Velociraptor
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
Posts: 437
Location: Canada, Toronto
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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I'm noticing it too. Since the advent of MSN, people feel the need to type everything in abbreviations, or shortening words down from five letters to four. As if typing one letter makes a difference. If it was a huge long word, or words like ASAP (though I'd prefer the Latin equivalent because even in abbreviations, it's only two letters) I could understand, but words like "are" and "you" don't really need to be shortened much; they're already short enough as it is. I'll never understand why people are so irrational. I particularly hate when abbreviations or "misspellings" are done to such a point that I cannot even read the message. Talk about abuse of abbreviations.
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nobodyzdream
Whistling in the dark...
Joined: Apr 24, 2007
Age: 28
Posts: 1935
Location: St. Charles, MO-USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Angelus-Mortis wrote: | | I'm noticing it too. Since the advent of MSN, people feel the need to type everything in abbreviations, or shortening words down from five letters to four. As if typing one letter makes a difference. If it was a huge long word, or words like ASAP (though I'd prefer the Latin equivalent because even in abbreviations, it's only two letters) I could understand, but words like "are" and "you" don't really need to be shortened much; they're already short enough as it is. I'll never understand why people are so irrational. I particularly hate when abbreviations or "misspellings" are done to such a point that I cannot even read the message. Talk about abuse of abbreviations. |
lol, same here. I have an account on IMVU, I don't use it a ton, but in my homepage message, I ask that people do not flood me with abbreviations and just type out the word. Misspellings happen-that will never really change, but it's odd when they actually go out of their way to type like they don't know how to spell. I give credit to some. Some of the abbreviations are alright, they are at least comprehendable (is that even a word?)... but when they start throwing in numbers as well just to shorten the word, it seems if they had the time to figure that one out, they could easily just type the word as it should be typed. I'm waiting to see the "words" "L33T" and "4go10" (forgotten) make it into Webster's dictionary, lol.
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nobodyzdream
Whistling in the dark...
Joined: Apr 24, 2007
Age: 28
Posts: 1935
Location: St. Charles, MO-USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| 2ukenkerl wrote: | | nobodyzdream wrote: | lol, exactly-it is very much a pride thing. Sorry to disagree though, lol, I see whites do it almost MORE in my area o.O No offense meant to anyone, but usually when I see somebody of a different race, if they are corrected, they will at least acknowledge that what they said is incorrect, even if they continue it anyway. That doesn't bother me so much just because they KNOW, and acknowledge it. So they say "well, that is just how I talk-that's just me". They don't get as defensive.
Now, a lot of whites have this chip on their shoulder that their language was the "right" one to begin with. Get this one... I saw a lady ARGUING that HICK is a language, but TRAILOR TRASH is NOT. How the heck does that argument even make sense??? lol. She argued for a long time over this one, and when she conceded that it was not a language, she decided it was an ACCENT (which I suppose she stated in an attempt to make it non-debatable). I finally had to tell her, "I'm sorry, but an accent isn't a blatant misuse of words altogether." She still argued, though... lol. This happens a lot with them in my area-the whites are definitely more defensive where I'm at. |
I guess I am lucky. I DO see a lot of whites, especially younger ones, using things like double negatives, adjectives for adverbs, etc... And a lot of "trailer trash" comments ARE based on people being hicks. The "language" is a pidgin, like ebonics. I never knew them to take PRIDE in it though, or declare it a new language! |
It's true. It seems that even in English classes now, they will allow things that do not make sense into essays and such, and they will write it off as "pizazz" to say that the person adds their own personality to the paper (the personality of not being comprehensive?). It really doesn't make any sense at all. No wonder young kids speak in such a manner.
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KingdomOfRats
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 01, 2005
Age: 24
Posts: 2686
Location: Manchester
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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wonder has it got something to do with the less respect? manners? people have for others these days.
common things heard here [due to the large scally/chav presense] are- "ee arrrh,can yoh get us some fags/alcohol from the shop","whatevoh", "innit yo","are yoh startin" and so on,it seems to be accepted under the term 'street talk'. |
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nobodyzdream
Whistling in the dark...
Joined: Apr 24, 2007
Age: 28
Posts: 1935
Location: St. Charles, MO-USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| KingdomOfRats wrote: | wonder has it got something to do with the less respect? manners? people have for others these days.
common things heard here [due to the large scally/chav presense] are- "ee arrrh,can yoh get us some fags/alcohol from the shop","whatevoh", "innit yo","are yoh startin?" and so on,it seems to be accepted under the term 'street talk'. |
lol. I cannot help but to laugh when people say things like that, and it is highly accepted by most. As I said, if someone at least acknowledges difficulties with these types of things, I don't mind one bit if they choose to speak differently, as long as they acknowledge it. But I don't understand the ones that deem it acceptable-it is only acceptable because they won't stop butchering it, lol... most don't realize how much it has been butchered.
Kind of funny, in quoting that, my spell check went crazy on the quotes... sad at the same time, people really say those things in that way intentionally.
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pandabear
Fleeting Body
Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Age: 49
Posts: 2217
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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| This is how languages naturally change and evolve over time. Otherwise, we would still be speaking the language of the ancient Saxons who invaded England some 1600 years ago. |
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nobodyzdream
Whistling in the dark...
Joined: Apr 24, 2007
Age: 28
Posts: 1935
Location: St. Charles, MO-USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| pandabear wrote: | | This is how languages naturally change and evolve over time. Otherwise, we would still be speaking the language of the ancient Saxons who invaded England some 1600 years ago. |
I suppose the Internet is why it is more noticeable these days. Those people would lose it most likely if they saw how we speak now  Or they'd at least be saying the same things that we are.
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Eire
Velociraptor
Joined: Oct 02, 2007
Posts: 452
Location: California
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| 2ukenkerl wrote: |
Gee, if they want to take pride in their race, and want their own language, let them learn a black one! Oddly, if you said that, and they complied, many might actually pick afrikaans which is ACTUALLY a dutch dialect!
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Because we blacks are just that stupid.  |
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RadiantAspie
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Joined: Oct 04, 2007
Posts: 373
Location: Surfing the Net
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think its so much that proper grammar is going down hill, but that the number of people who don't use it is going up.
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