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paolo
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Posts: 1151
Location: Italy
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 Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:26 pm Post subject: Talk among humans |
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The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that all our communication with our fellow humans in inevitably corrupted by some form of artifice, lying, diplomacy, etiquette, conventionality. It is no more possible verbal communication in natural, spontaneous ways. You can ask someone what time it is, which way you have to go to reach a place, but almost exclusively to a stranger. If you ask what time it is to an acquaintance or friend there is a high risk, that what you mean is: I have to go, we should terminate this conversation we are having together now. If you ask “how are you”, you rarely are interested in the other’s condition, you only obey to a rule o etiquette. Does someone remember that surreal conversation between Sellers-President and Secretary Kishoff in Strangelove? We are under siege, in verbal communication, by falsity or conventionality. That’s also the reason for which we are comforted by a relationship with an animal. Here what you say, or what you are told is elementary and not corrupted (normally, at least on the part of the animal).
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Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better.
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the_incident
Raven
Joined: Sep 24, 2007
Age: 32
Posts: 110
Location: United States of America
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Okay, what's your point? |
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Postperson
The Daughter of Indifference
Joined: Jul 10, 2004
Age: 51
Posts: 2908
Location: Uz
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| yes, it's no wonder autism is associated with muteness. the whole language 'game' isn't one we play well, or understand the rules of. |
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0_equals_true
Quack!
Joined: Apr 06, 2007
Age: 26
Posts: 5046
Location: London
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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You are over thinking this. You have no basis to think that asking what time it is automatically means you have to go (maybe 'look at the time') and even if it does it is not a big a problem because you can clarify. These are the kind of thought patterns you get in anxiety disorders. While it is true that there are nuances of communication that are lost on us, it won't help you to try and fabricate them in your mind and it will get you into a behaviour cycle that is undesirable if it hasn't done already. This happens to NTs and Aspies alike. It is a myth that NTs have near psychic ability, what the do have is social ability though they might have trouble using it because of being caught in a cycle. Like my friends were.
There was recently a study that showed that people will believe a rumour even after they are clearly shown facts that contradict the account.
People are driven by their own beliefs, these beliefs are cyclical. Even Aspies are affected by this. If it is causing you problems the best thing you can do is only go with the facts on the ground and don't add to it. Adding to it will only add to the complexity of the problem. Easier said then done of course. |
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0_equals_true
Quack!
Joined: Apr 06, 2007
Age: 26
Posts: 5046
Location: London
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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Not all cycles are bad of course. They are like information engines. Sometimes they sweep up heresy and are fuelled by inward rather than fact based logic. That is the thing we are very logical but we almost have to make assumptions about people. The best you can do is re test those assumptions as regularly as you care to see if they really hold true, and don't but weight on assumption you can't qualify, especially if it going to have a negative effect on you.
# 1 hypocrite here  |
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Phagocyte
Low-Functioning NT
Joined: Oct 16, 2007
Age: 19
Posts: 1924
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Postperson wrote: | | yes, it's no wonder autism is associated with muteness. the whole language 'game' isn't one we play well, or understand the rules of. |
Well I'm an NT and I feel the same way. I never understood small talk and many of the subtle conversational nuances. Perhaps that's why my aspergian friend and myself can have such intelligent conversations: By completely skipping over such social frivolities and simply discussing our topic of interest. If I'm doing something that he doesn't like, he tells me straight-up. Some see it as blunt, I see it as honest and efficient. |
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Ahaseurus2000
Velociraptor
Joined: Sep 22, 2007
Age: 30
Posts: 456
Location: Taupo, New Zealand
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| Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:34 am Post subject: |
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Saying Hello and Fine:
These interactions are a form of social ritual. They act as a "spoken" handshake - as a Handshake is a gesture meant to promote social friendliness, the interactions indicate that you're a friendly person.
Asking what the time is:
People merely assume you have a deadline or appointment to meet. Saying you're in no hurry shows that's not the case.
Sometimes people use social rituals to keep "psychological distance", meaning to avoid any intimate interaction. Usually these people just want to avoid feeling vulnerable. |
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zghost
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 29, 2007
Posts: 817
Location: Southeast Texas
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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I used to respond to questions like "How are you? with off the wall answers, such as "meduim rare". After many years of odd reactions, now I just say "Okay" or "Fine."
I so don't get small talk. Never have, never will. I avoid jobs that expect politeness. And offices.
If you have nothing interesting to say, don't bother me. If you do, don't make me wait through the greeting rituals. I have no patience. |
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Starr
Creature of the night
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Joined: Sep 18, 2006
Posts: 4323
Location: the misty mountain
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:45 am Post subject: |
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Yes I remember the Dr Strangelove conversation, lol. Talk gets so unreal at times...but there is something underneath the small talk. That the person you are talking to is trying to connect with you, make some kind of link in a human way.
I think the rules of etiquette (which are so hard for Aspies sometimes, they are a minefield in themseves!) are to let people connect more easily? Maybe it is the way of connecting, of saying 'we are OK together, not enemies' without actually saying that in words?
Animals we can love and maybe they love back (?) but to share what it is like to be human, I think only other people can understand and have empathy with that experience. |
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dupertuis
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Nov 19, 2007
Age: 57
Posts: 67
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:16 am Post subject: |
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When someone asks me how I'm doing, if I know, I will answer with one word.
If I have to go inside to find out, by the time I come back with an answer they're no longer interested.
dp |
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