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CerebralDreamer
Deinonychus
Joined: Dec 23, 2008
Posts: 380
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 Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:56 pm Post subject: Aspies: "Rain Man" vs. "Silicon Valley" |
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I think there's a lot of confusion about this topic, and I would really like to make a statement. As Aspies, we tend to get divided into two groups: 'Rainman Aspies' who don't really focus on human behavior, and 'Silicon Valley' Aspies who use their strengths to tackle the social issues, while retaining a massive advantage in fields such as math and computers.
What I'm saying is that you should stop trying to learn like other people, because you don't. If you have social problems, pull out your psychology and sociology textbooks, and start reading the studies on human behavior done over the last several years. That is how I've learned to cope. I'm at par with NTs in social situations because I consciously know what's going on in a very intellectual sense. I understand the situation far better than NTs because I have to just to cope.
I'm more than satisfied with my dating life because I've pinned down the NT behaviors through intense academic studies, and I still have those Aspie strengths to push me ahead of your typical man. That's pretty much what defines your silicon valley man. They embrace their bookish learning, and use that to tackle social problems. After they've done that, they still have these massive intellectual strengths that didn't go away, putting them above your typical NT male, at least when you're going after the intelligent women.
So, instead of trying to solve your dating issues like an NT, just take a moment to hit yourself in the head for being an idiot, and realize you need textbooks on behavior made for scientists, not self-help books made for NTs. You'll find that writings made for professional sociologists and psychologists will be of much more use to you than the trash sitting on the self-help shelf. |
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UberElvis
Blue Jay
Joined: Nov 12, 2008
Age: 17
Posts: 85
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| That's an interesting theory and it makes a lot of sense. I might have to try that. Although it may look like more work, but in the long run it sounds better in the long run than the self-help material. I'll come back after researching stuff for a while, and post about any changes that may take place. |
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cyberscan
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 17, 2008
Posts: 744
Location: Near Panama, City Florida
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:12 am Post subject: |
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I'm an Autie, and I fall almost exactly between the Silicon Valley and "Rainman" types. I'm still trying to learn. Thanks for the information.
_________________
I am AUTISTIC - Always Unique, Totally Interesting, Straight Talking, Intelligently Conversational. |
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jawbrodt
Only Truth
Joined: Jan 27, 2008
Age: 35
Posts: 10217
Location: Northcentral, Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:03 am Post subject: Re: Aspies: "Rain Man" vs. "Silicon Valley&qu |
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| CerebralDreamer wrote: | I think there's a lot of confusion about this topic, and I would really like to make a statement. As Aspies, we tend to get divided into two groups: 'Rainman Aspies' who don't really focus on human behavior, and 'Silicon Valley' Aspies who use their strengths to tackle the social issues, while retaining a massive advantage in fields such as math and computers.
What I'm saying is that you should stop trying to learn like other people, because you don't. If you have social problems, pull out your psychology and sociology textbooks, and start reading the studies on human behavior done over the last several years. That is how I've learned to cope. I'm at par with NTs in social situations because I consciously know what's going on in a very intellectual sense. I understand the situation far better than NTs because I have to just to cope.
I'm more than satisfied with my dating life because I've pinned down the NT behaviors through intense academic studies, and I still have those Aspie strengths to push me ahead of your typical man. That's pretty much what defines your silicon valley man. They embrace their bookish learning, and use that to tackle social problems. After they've done that, they still have these massive intellectual strengths that didn't go away, putting them above your typical NT male, at least when you're going after the intelligent women.
So, instead of trying to solve your dating issues like an NT, just take a moment to hit yourself in the head for being an idiot, and realize you need textbooks on behavior made for scientists, not self-help books made for NTs. You'll find that writings made for professional sociologists and psychologists will be of much more use to you than the trash sitting on the self-help shelf. |
I agree. I'm much the same way as you, only I learned from years of observation, and life experiences. I also did some reading, which helped alot. It helped put together some of the pieces that were out of place, or missing. It can do wonders for your self-confidence. 
And like you said, all the Aspie advantages are still there. 
_________________
Those who speak, don't know.
Those who know, don't speak. |
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Hector
Frankie Teardrop
Joined: Mar 11, 2008
Age: 23
Posts: 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:54 am Post subject: |
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| Aspie strengths? In dating? |
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CerebralDreamer
Deinonychus
Joined: Dec 23, 2008
Posts: 380
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| Hector wrote: | | Aspie strengths? In dating? |
Have you been completely oblivious to the occasional posts from neurotypical women wanting to know how to approach an Aspie? Have you ever heard of women asking men how to approach another man outside of this site? If you play into your god-given role, and be the shy guy who knows a lot, carries on very interesting conversations, doesn't climb out of his shell unless a woman pulls on him, you'll go far.
When people say 'be yourself', this is what they mean. If you're an Aspie, don't try and act like the quarterback. Stay in your shell and wait for someone to drag you out of it. If you're not getting enough bites, be the wall-flower in a sea of extroverts. You'd be surprised how many single women will try to pull you out of your shell at a social function.
It's all about embracing, and in some cases exaggerating your natural role. As for everything else, the social issues in particular, it can be worked past if you pull out some textbooks that cover human interaction. |
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Hector
Frankie Teardrop
Joined: Mar 11, 2008
Age: 23
Posts: 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:15 am Post subject: |
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| CerebralDreamer wrote: | | Have you been completely oblivious to the occasional posts from neurotypical women wanting to know how to approach an Aspie? |
No, but the impression I generally had was that women would be attracted to men with AS despite their condition, not because of it, with the possible exception of women with AS who are particularly drawn by men with AS traits (which is a minority of a minority of a minority).
Most of your advice is stuff I've tried over some extended period or another in my college years. By now I agree with some of it and disagree with some of it. In particular, I find that if you're the quiet one at the party everyone ignores you. |
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CerebralDreamer
Deinonychus
Joined: Dec 23, 2008
Posts: 380
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| Hector wrote: | | CerebralDreamer wrote: | | Have you been completely oblivious to the occasional posts from neurotypical women wanting to know how to approach an Aspie? |
No, but the impression I generally had was that women would be attracted to men with AS despite their condition, not because of it, with the possible exception of women with AS who are particularly drawn by men with AS traits (which is a minority of a minority of a minority).
Most of your advice is stuff I've tried over some extended period or another in my college years. By now I agree with some of it and disagree with some of it. In particular, I find that if you're the quiet one at the party everyone ignores you. |
There has to be something you're doing wrong. Either you're in the wrong setting, or you haven't emphasized your role through body language. (Believe it or not, that has a massive impact on your social situation. Simply reading up on it, you'll know what body language best matches your personality, allowing you to exaggerate your role a bit.)
Have you been reading up on the subject? It took me a few years, and thousands of pages of reading, but I've gotten it down. It's just a matter of playing into your role properly. It's not easy by any means, but it can be done. |
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Hector
Frankie Teardrop
Joined: Mar 11, 2008
Age: 23
Posts: 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:41 am Post subject: |
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Well, I've been to social skills meetings for a couple of years and heard academic (if not "professional") opinions from the people running those meetings. Apparently my body language improved a good deal during the course of the years I attended these meetings, according to them, though I didn't notice this myself.
I'd love to know what I've been doing wrong. As far as I can tell, I've been doing everything right at least for the past couple of years, and that was when I was in college where there were plenty of girls. |
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CerebralDreamer
Deinonychus
Joined: Dec 23, 2008
Posts: 380
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:20 am Post subject: |
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| Hector wrote: | Well, I've been to social skills meetings for a couple of years and heard academic (if not "professional") opinions from the people running those meetings. Apparently my body language improved a good deal during the course of the years I attended these meetings, according to them, though I didn't notice this myself.
I'd love to know what I've been doing wrong. As far as I can tell, I've been doing everything right at least for the past couple of years, and that was when I was in college where there were plenty of girls. |
The problem is the vast majority of that advice is written by and by nature geared for NTs. What we need is to pull out the stuff written for professionals that have to understand everything on a very knitty gritty level. That's why I'm saying get the sociology books, the psychology books, behavioral studies, and leave the self-help section/speeches by NTs alone. |
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Hector
Frankie Teardrop
Joined: Mar 11, 2008
Age: 23
Posts: 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:50 am Post subject: |
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I wouldn't quite consider the people I worked with to be in "self-help". The social skills group was specifically geared towards people with AS, for a starters, and they were graduate students or lecturers in psychology.
Making progress in psychology is very hard and even though the academic community's apparent knowledge of the human mind and of autism is growing quickly, I wouldn't say they have definitive answers to all that much, never mind all the things that a man with AS could be doing wrong in social situations. It's good to seek all the help you can get but I've done this, and for me it wasn't a quick fix. |
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RealTalk
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Jun 30, 2009
Posts: 42
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| CerebralDreamer wrote: | | Hector wrote: | | Aspie strengths? In dating? |
Have you been completely oblivious to the occasional posts from neurotypical women wanting to know how to approach an Aspie? Have you ever heard of women asking men how to approach another man outside of this site? If you play into your god-given role, and be the shy guy who knows a lot, carries on very interesting conversations, doesn't climb out of his shell unless a woman pulls on him, you'll go far.
When people say 'be yourself', this is what they mean. If you're an Aspie, don't try and act like the quarterback. Stay in your shell and wait for someone to drag you out of it. If you're not getting enough bites, be the wall-flower in a sea of extroverts. You'd be surprised how many single women will try to pull you out of your shell at a social function.
It's all about embracing, and in some cases exaggerating your natural role. As for everything else, the social issues in particular, it can be worked past if you pull out some textbooks that cover human interaction. |
 at this suggestion. Be an inconspicous guy who waits for a girl to make the first move? Yeah, solid advice there! |
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TonyFremont
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Jun 27, 2009
Posts: 52
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Hector wrote: | | I'd love to know what I've been doing wrong. As far as I can tell, I've been doing everything right at least for the past couple of years, and that was when I was in college where there were plenty of girls. |
I wish I could tell you what you're doing wrong because you sound like a pretty reasonable guy. Maybe you need to find a wingman.
Good luck |
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kiransalee
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Jan 17, 2009
Posts: 42
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:38 am Post subject: Re: Aspies: "Rain Man" vs. "Silicon Valley&qu |
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| CerebralDreamer wrote: | | You'll find that writings made for professional sociologists and psychologists will be of much more use to you than the trash sitting on the self-help shelf. |
Any specific recommendations? Someone on here suggested The 48 Laws of Power and I picked it up along with The 33 Strategies of War, both by the same authors. I recommend both of them.
I'm looking for The Art of Seduction next, also by Robert Greene. |
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Michjo
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 05, 2009
Age: 25
Posts: 1020
Location: Oxford, UK
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:46 am Post subject: |
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| I actually think trying to fit in is the problem. I'm always more sucessful when i don't bother trying to fit in. |
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