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dark_mage
Sea Gull
Joined: Jan 10, 2008
Age: 26
Posts: 243
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 Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 8:55 pm Post subject: A real life friendship algorithm |
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For those who aren't familiar with this
On the show "The Big Bang Theory" Sheldon Cooper created a friendship algorithm (and wound up needing to modify it) to complete some research. If you could design such an algorithm what would it be or how would modify your existing one?
Here's mine for start
Walk around --> Notice people doing similar --> Notice something about said person --> strike up conservation on autopilot (programming kicks in) --> ask name --> exchange name --> mission accomplished (note: it's not quite that simple)
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The Mind: the most powerful computational device known in the universe.
I'm not evil I just have a different view of good
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McTell
Up Jumped the Devil
Joined: Jan 28, 2009
Age: 19
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Location: Edinburgh
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| Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| That seems more like an acquaintance algorithm. |
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dark_mage
Sea Gull
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Age: 26
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| Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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Yes well it needs work and sometimes does backfire if overdone (at least I think it does)
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LabPet
alchemist
Joined: Jan 05, 2007
Posts: 2858
Location: Alaska
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| Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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Basically that algorithm is the principle of friendship interactions. If that is an acquaintance algorithm then that must be requisite for the following friendship part, I think. The order seems to have a logical progression. I don't have an autopilot which is the hard part but assumption (hope?) the other one does.
Good outline!
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same nightmare, different nap
Lab Pet, therapist slayer
Lab Pet's video: Autism is Synonymous with Science: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYelVlA7kDw |
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aleclair
Deinonychus
Joined: Oct 19, 2006
Age: 19
Posts: 339
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I see an acquaintance algorithm as well. It reminds me of when I read a book on how to strike up conversation at cocktail and dinner parties. The authors prescribed something very similar, but added tips like "stand by the food" (then wouldn't you be seen as gluttonous by others?).
You have a point in that there's a bit of algorithmic thinking involved in acquaintanceship and perhaps even friendship. I still like to think of friendship as an art but describing how people interact in groups to be a theorem-lemma-corollary science. Hence I don't have any sort of good friendship algorithm, besides to wait for people to want to talk to me; if they want to talk to me, odds are they're the type of people I find interesting. But that has a few loopholes - especially back when I was in high school, where people would consistently ask me for the answers to things in German class or in Physics class. Certainly they were talking to me but none of it had any sort of social substance. |
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McTell
Up Jumped the Devil
Joined: Jan 28, 2009
Age: 19
Posts: 1456
Location: Edinburgh
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| Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| The reason I say it's an algorithm for acquaintance rather than friendship is that it ends with "exchange name." Friendship isn't achieved upon learning a person's name after a period of conversation. |
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Woodpecker
I am not a jigsaw! I am a free man !
Joined: Oct 19, 2008
Age: 36
Posts: 1417
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 2:58 am Post subject: |
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I was somewhat disappointed, it was a flow chart rather than a mathematical algorithm to work out if two people would become friends.
I hold the view that a large number of people with ASDs do feel empathy and desire companionship. But the thing is that this empathy and desire for companionship may not be recognised by those in the “mental health industry”.
Years ago when I was at school a biology teacher told me that a living thing must satisfy a series of requirements.
1. It must respire
2. It must feed or nourish its self in some way
3. It must reproduce
But he added a warning, that just because you do not observe a suspected living thing doing one of the three in a particular way then you can not rule out the possibility of life. For example if the crocodile at the zoo fails to eat the cream cake you throw into the croc’s den you can not be sure that the croc is an inert nonliving object which you can safely approach.
I suspect that under the right conditions aspies can become friends with both NTs and other aspies. I think that for all people (NT or aspie & autie) that there will be some people who rub them up the wrong way, which they will never want to associate with. So I think that it is impossible for some combinations of people to become friends, but that is life.
I recently saw one person posting in WP suggesting that as an aspie he was like a noble gas, we might be from group 18 but under the right conditions noble gases are not inert and they do react with some things. I am not sure quite if it would be possible to think of compound best describes or models the typical NT, typical; aspies and typical autie. Also as not all autes, aspies or NTs are the same I do not think that a simple chemical model based upon only a few substances can be suggested for human behaviour.
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Health is a state of physical, mental and social wellbeing and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity  I am not a jigsaw, I am a free man ! |
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dark_mage
Sea Gull
Joined: Jan 10, 2008
Age: 26
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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Yes it does seem like an acquaintance flowchart because flowcharts lead to programming algorithms (not so much mathematical). Now after the exchange name a friendship is not necessarily achieved but at least you know someone new (and took a risk) now to expand on the original
(version 1.5)
Walk around --> Notice people doing similar --> Notice something about said person --> strike up conservation on autopilot (programming kicks in) --> ask name --> exchange name --> say nice to meet you --> ask where they did undergrad and in what field --> (now here is where a decision is made) --> if field given is same or similar to yours then --> state your field and note similarities or the fact that you have the same educational background --> else --> state your field and end conversion by stating well it was nice meeting you take care
This may need some more updating
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The Mind: the most powerful computational device known in the universe.
I'm not evil I just have a different view of good
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reginaterrae
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: May 20, 2009
Posts: 31
Location: Maryland
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| Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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dark mage, I did my undergrad in Management, but it's something that bores me stiff. If you stopped there, with me, you'd lose me.
I would be more inclined to ask or comment something related to the event or venue: "how do you know the host(ess)?" or "how do you like the paintings?" (at a gallery, or "what did you think of the lecture?", etc ... followed up with "yeah? hmm, I'm more neutral about it -- what is it you loved/hated about it?") or "I love the unusual appetizers they serve at this bar, did you try this one?" [On that last one you'd have me ... a major foodie.  Then to be followed up with "I'm going to see if I can replicate it at home -- do you like to cook?" etc......] |
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dark_mage
Sea Gull
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Age: 26
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| Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| reginaterrae wrote: | dark mage, I did my undergrad in Management, but it's something that bores me stiff. If you stopped there, with me, you'd lose me.
I would be more inclined to ask or comment something related to the event or venue: "how do you know the host(ess)?" or "how do you like the paintings?" (at a gallery, or "what did you think of the lecture?", etc ... followed up with "yeah? hmm, I'm more neutral about it -- what is it you loved/hated about it?") or "I love the unusual appetizers they serve at this bar, did you try this one?" [On that last one you'd have me ... a major foodie. Then to be followed up with "I'm going to see if I can replicate it at home -- do you like to cook?" etc......] |
Well if it is food you like then I would try that actually with someone I met yesterday and saw the same person again she mentions that she cooks indian food and I casually stated to her well one way to get me to help you out is cooking me dinner  then again the algorithm is something has to be tweaked (like I stated before it's not as simple as presented too many shortcuts I have taken in my brain before creating the algorithm& it was created on a whim and not really planned)
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I'm not evil I just have a different view of good
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LabPet
alchemist
Joined: Jan 05, 2007
Posts: 2858
Location: Alaska
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| Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 2:26 am Post subject: |
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Just speculative, but sometimes I do wonder how Neurotypicals just 'know' how to socialize. I am adept at the math, but to assimilate algorithm into a social interaction is not doable for me. I've observed NTs are positively uncanny in knowing their mysterious social complexities.
This does imply NTs truly do have a built-in module to facilitate this social stuff. But I can do the math - they can't. So there.
Autists are on manual whereas NTs have the social advantage with autopilot; cheap, fast, and out-of-control but they get there. Wherever that destination is for them. Lab Pet is at least lost (inside my own mind). But the cab is nice inside <insert appropriate emoticon here>
Lab Pet has a GPS in her head.....scanning for satellite.
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same nightmare, different nap
Lab Pet, therapist slayer
Lab Pet's video: Autism is Synonymous with Science: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYelVlA7kDw |
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dark_mage
Sea Gull
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Age: 26
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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I wouldn't say that Neurotypicals have a social autopilot but then again it varies and even those who are not aspies have difficulty reading signals from people as well (to the point where misunderstandings can happen)
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thegreatpretender
Hummingbird
Joined: May 21, 2009
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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Dunno if it's worth mentioning, but Dale Carnegie's book "How to win friends and influence people" probably still gives very valuable tips:
The most important ones (and easy to implement) are:
SMILE
LISTEN
SAY YOU LIKE THEM
Using these principles, I think anyone can quickly build a wide circle of friendly acquaintances.
The cost is somewhat reduced intellectual integrity and occasional exhaustion from playing this game.
(summarised here, from Wikipedia):
Fundamental Techniques in Handling People
1. Don't criticize, condemn or complain.
2. Give honest and sincere appreciation.
3. Arouse in the other person an eager want.
Six Ways to Make People Like You
1. Become genuinely interested in other people.
2. Smile.
3. Remember that a man's Name is to him the sweetest and most important sound in any language.
4. Be a good listener. Encourage others to talk about themselves.
5. Talk in the terms of the other man's interest.
6. Make the other person feel important and do it sincerely.
Twelve Ways to Win People to Your Way of Thinking
1. Avoid arguments.
2. Show respect for the other person's opinions. Never tell someone they are wrong.
3. If you're wrong, admit it quickly and emphatically.
4. Begin in a friendly way.
5. Start with questions the other person will answer yes to.
6. Let the other person do the talking.
7. Let the other person feel the idea is his/hers.
8. Try honestly to see things from the other person's point of view.
9. Sympathize with the other person.
10. Appeal to noble motives.
11. Dramatize your ideas.
12. Throw down a challenge.
Be a Leader: How to Change People Without Giving Offense or Arousing Resentment
1. Begin with praise and honest appreciation.
2. Call attention to other people's mistakes indirectly.
3. Talk about your own mistakes first.
4. Ask questions instead of directly giving orders.
5. Let the other person save face.
6. Praise every improvement.
7. Give them a fine reputation to live up to.
8. Encourage them by making their faults seem easy to correct.
9. Make the other person happy about doing what you suggest. |
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Lene
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 28, 2007
Age: 24
Posts: 833
Location: Manchester
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| thegreatpretender wrote: | Dunno if it's worth mentioning, but Dale Carnegie's book "How to win friends and influence people" probably still gives very valuable tips:
The most important ones (and easy to implement) are:
SMILE
LISTEN
SAY YOU LIKE THEM
Using these principles, I think anyone can quickly build a wide circle of friendly acquaintances.
The cost is somewhat reduced intellectual integrity and occasional exhaustion from playing this game.
(summarised here, from Wikipedia):
Fundamental Techniques in Handling People
1. Don't criticize, condemn or complain.
2. Give honest and sincere appreciation.
3. Arouse in the other person an eager want.
Six Ways to Make People Like You
1. Become genuinely interested in other people.
2. Smile.
3. Remember that a man's Name is to him the sweetest and most important sound in any language.
4. Be a good listener. Encourage others to talk about themselves.
5. Talk in the terms of the other man's interest.
6. Make the other person feel important and do it sincerely.
Twelve Ways to Win People to Your Way of Thinking
1. Avoid arguments.
2. Show respect for the other person's opinions. Never tell someone they are wrong.
3. If you're wrong, admit it quickly and emphatically.
4. Begin in a friendly way.
5. Start with questions the other person will answer yes to.
6. Let the other person do the talking.
7. Let the other person feel the idea is his/hers.
8. Try honestly to see things from the other person's point of view.
9. Sympathize with the other person.
10. Appeal to noble motives.
11. Dramatize your ideas.
12. Throw down a challenge.
Be a Leader: How to Change People Without Giving Offense or Arousing Resentment
1. Begin with praise and honest appreciation.
2. Call attention to other people's mistakes indirectly.
3. Talk about your own mistakes first.
4. Ask questions instead of directly giving orders.
5. Let the other person save face.
6. Praise every improvement.
7. Give them a fine reputation to live up to.
8. Encourage them by making their faults seem easy to correct.
9. Make the other person happy about doing what you suggest. |
These are really good. I knew a consultant who used all the 'how to make people like you' tips when I workedd with him, and I have to say, I really did like him (even if I was scared witless and couldn't answer any off the questions being hurled at me ). |
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dark_mage
Sea Gull
Joined: Jan 10, 2008
Age: 26
Posts: 243
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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But does the above method actually work or do those who use what was given in that book find it not working as in others thinking that you are too mechanical?
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I'm not evil I just have a different view of good
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