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Tantybi
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
Age: 31
Posts: 1091
Location: Wonderland
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 Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| fiddlerpianist wrote: | Tantybi, I also have a problem with you suggesting that all marriages are about setting and meeting the woman's expectations rather than true compromise. Many marriages are, in fact, compromises between two people. I'm sorry that yours is not and that you have to resort to the tactics that you do (whether it's called bullying or conditioning). But it certainly is not true for everyone, so stop trying to imagine that all marriages are like yours or we are living in "la la land."
I also hate it when women use the "you're not a parent so I automatically discount your opinion" tactic. My wife hates it, too. She hated it before she was a mom, and she continues to hate it now that she is. She believes that it is borne out of the insecurities of being a parent. There are so many nasty things that parents do... to each other and sometimes to their children, that are borne almost entirely out of our insecurity. |
Sorry about that. I believe the man is equally entitled to his expectations, but we haven't really been talking about a man with problems with his wife as much as the opposite.
The OP stated a problem similar to mine. I told her how I'm solving mine. She doesn't have to like it or try it. She can continue living with her problems or leave her man, and if she finds a better solution than those already offered to the table, then by all means I hope she hops on this thing and posts it.
I didn't say all marriages are like mine or you are living in lalaland. I said certain things happen in marriages and those who suggest otherwise are living in lalaland.
The tactic you claim I use? Wow, were you not the one telling me in another post that models (i.e. paradigms) do not really relate to real life. That's all the woman has to work from, a paradigm created in her mind, in her opinion. Yeah, I discount it when I realize it in no way relates to real life. |
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Tantybi
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Age: 31
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Saspie wrote: | | Tantybi wrote: |
You didn't answer my question on how you would handle things if your husband all the sudden changed to where he wouldn't compromise anymore. You really can't know for sure until you are in that situation, but you'd be in my boat where your options are to leave, stay and put up with it, or stay and change it. But to put up with it is crazy. And to leave or change it, well both are technically ultimatums and a form of bullying to use them, by your definition. Either way, you expect your husband to compromise. |
Sorry I missed this. Yes I would leave him if the relationship was not making me happy (but after seeking a solution together first]. I have done so in the past in crappy relationships and would do so again. I rarely need to compromise with my partner about anything as we get on great so I am not using an ultimatum against him to make him do what I want nor bullying. An ultimatum is a final demand. I have never made a final demand of him. If you cannot see the difference between how I relate to my partner versus how you relate, that is quite problematic. You seem to think the marriage is all about making the other person do what you want. I see a relationship as a way to enjoy someone's company, share goals together, support each other when we have troubles, have a lot of awesome sex with and to be best friends with __ basically share our life together. It is very different to seeing a partner as a child to use Pavlovian tricks against.
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The example you claim I make is not an example if the kids are too young to comprehend it as such. They are 1 and 2, not 15 and 16. They are very concrete thinkers right now. |
Sure. Hopefully you do not set this example for them as they get older.
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This is no different than my first point except that I worded it better. If it makes the world sleep easier at night to word things better, then by all means.... |
I still think your relationship is really messed up and fair enough, that's your choice. But don't make out like it is acceptable for other people to use your methods or put up with the marriage you have. It's not. You put forward your methods as advice for the OP. I think the advice was truly awful.
| Quote: | | I push him to man up to his end. That's not bullying. You used some of those techniques on me in this argument that I use on my husband, so obviously it isn't that bad. All I'm doing is consciously using something that comes to most people instinctively. |
What techniques have I used on you? I have used no techniques on you to my knowledge... I do not have the capacity to use psychological tricks on people at all. I have no idea what kind of action on my behalf would elicit certain responses from you. Your assertion is ridiculous. I have given you my opinions of what you have said. You can ignore them if you so choose. I fail to see how this is using a 'technique' such as what you have described. |
Exactly. You would do something very similar to what I'm doing that you so strongly believe against. IN fact your opinion on the subject contradicts itself. Leaving a man because he doesn't fit your expectations is okay, but telling him you are going to leave him if he doesn't change is bullying.
Don't make out that it's unacceptable to use my methods. You are not God and you got to remove yourself from that pedestal you think you stand on.
Your techniques? Let's see, instead of just being, I feel this and I feel that, you are saying, You are wrong. You've brought my kids into it, by how I'm setting the example, which is a form of guilt because it's saying that what I"m doing is bad to my kids in your opinion. Like maybe if I thought about my kids I would change my mind and cave in to say you are right and I am wrong. You also point out many times how your mom is better than me because she got dumped and didn't have to be in my situation (which our men are two different stories as mine isn't cheating on me with another woman nor does he have a cocaine addiction), and you do not wish to be me, and because of me, you do not wish to have kids. That's insulting and also a form of serious bullying and abuse. If you talk like that to your husband, you are worse than me. IN fact, the idea that you talk like that to me makes you a little worse than me. I have never pretended that you are such an awful person that I'm glad I'm not you. |
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Greentea
Goddess of Wisdom
Joined: Jun 15, 2007
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Location: Middle East
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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I think people here don't understand that at this stage this is not a man-woman relationship anymore, but a partnership for the children. Tantiby said something to that effect in her first post about it. Of course it's no way to treat your romantic partner, but it certainly is a brilliant solution to the kids' needs, in view of the serious limitations of parenting from the father. Besides, the example that children learn is how much the mother respects herself, not the details of her relationship patterns.
Tantiby, I applaud you wholeheartedly.
And those concerned with the example to the kids: you seem to forget that the example is being set by BOTH parents, mainly THE FATHER, who prefers to be another child in the household than become a suitable parent to the kids he fathered.
Both leaving him and giving in to him are the same ineffective solution: in both cases, the husband gets away with not parenting HIS kids as he must.
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Tantybi
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| I should also add that I'm not totally discrediting her opinion only because she's not a mom. She's made it very clear to me that she is missing many variables to my situation. One, she is not a mom. Two, she is in Australia and I'm in the states. For me to all the sudden pretend to be an expert on the culture in Australia would be crazy. Like i've said before, most of what I'm going through is a result of the pressures of society around me. She has no idea what those would be becuase she isn't in my society. In this society (where I am at), a wife is treated very different than a mom. People allow you to have flaws as a wife or a single woman. But as a mom, they can't make room for your flaws because they all affect your children, and for sake of the children, everybody has an opinion on how you are living your life all the sudden and must shove it down your throat. Many times, they are so wrong it's incredible that people can be so wrong. Like I've been told feeding my kid healthy amounts of formula is child abuse because she was overweight and I should have been putting a baby on a diet malnourishing her. That's just one example. I get a plethora of stupid judgements on a regular basis, and i also get a plethora of regular judgements on a regular basis that really don't matter (like a little clutter in the house). Again, unless you know where I'm coming from, then you will never understand the gravity of the situation to formulate an honest opinion on it. Many moms in the US do know where I'm coming from, like most of this can go without being said. Not all moms in the US do, but more moms in the US know where I"m coming from than wives in Australia. Don't get me wrong, I remember life before motherhood, well some of it anyway. And I do remember swearing i knew what I was talking about. I know that i had good advice for moms back then, and i'm sure Saspie has great advice for moms now. But in this specific case, she is obviously lacking insight to win her argument with me. |
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Greentea
Goddess of Wisdom
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Age: 48
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Location: Middle East
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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On a similar note, the Social Worker from the municipality called me last week and said she was going to inspect the case and see if I was doing enough for my old and sick father. She said she also had a list of demands from me I had to fulfill if I wanted her to be satisfied with how I care for my father. To which I answered:
"Even if I'm the lousiest carer in the world for my father, I'm a billion times better than his other daughter, who 5 years ago cut all contact with him and hasn't moved a finger to help since then. So any obligation you mention to me, you make good and sure that you mail me first a copy of a letter you send to my sister demanding she start taking care of our father AT ONCE or else you'll see her in Court."
The Social Worker backed down immediately, no obligations and no inspections or criticism.
People always have extra demands from the one who cares. It's a lot easier than making demands from the person who's failing to do their job because they could care less.
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So-called white lies are like fake jewelry. Adorn yourself with them if you must, but expect to look cheap to a connoisseur. |
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fiddlerpianist
Unclassified and loving it!
Joined: May 01, 2009
Age: 32
Posts: 1638
Location: The Autistic Hinterlands
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Tantybi wrote: | | I didn't say all marriages are like mine or you are living in lalaland. I said certain things happen in marriages and those who suggest otherwise are living in lalaland. |
"Like yours" in that you have to resort to "certain techniques", not completely "like yours." Sorry that was not more obvious.
By "certain techniques" you meant this:
| Tantybi wrote: | | Guilt trips, you can't tell me you never tried to make a man feel guilty about doing you wrong? You can't tell me either that in all the years you've been married your man has never made a mistake you had to deal with, whether you dealt with it using arguments, whining, guilt trips, or what have ya, you can't tell me your relationship has been 100% perfect from day one. If you really think that where you never had to resort to any type of psychological technique to improve the situation, then I will tell you for certain that you are in la la land. |
If, by psychological techniques, you mean engaging in open dialog, then I agree with you. However, I don't think that's what you mean. There's an air of subversity to the psychological techniques you describe. My wife and I do not play psychological games. Period.
| Tantybi wrote: | | The tactic you claim I use? Wow, were you not the one telling me in another post that models (i.e. paradigms) do not really relate to real life. |
No, actually. I said that a model cannot paint a complete picture. I never said that it does not relate to real life in some way. If that were the case, it would be a pretty crappy model.
| Tantybi wrote: | | That's all the woman has to work from, a paradigm created in her mind, in her opinion. Yeah, I discount it when I realize it in no way relates to real life. |
It goes both ways, then. Your opinion is invalidated when you speak about anything that you have no experience dealing with. Your opinion about being on welfare: invalid. Your opinion about working an forty-hour a week job for a corporation to support your family: irrelevant. Your opinion about the nature of marriages whose core nature is nothing like yours: useless.
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fiddlerpianist
Unclassified and loving it!
Joined: May 01, 2009
Age: 32
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Location: The Autistic Hinterlands
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Tantybi wrote: | | I should also add that I'm not totally discrediting her opinion only because she's not a mom. She's made it very clear to me that she is missing many variables to my situation. One, she is not a mom. Two, she is in Australia and I'm in the states. For me to all the sudden pretend to be an expert on the culture in Australia would be crazy. Like i've said before, most of what I'm going through is a result of the pressures of society around me. She has no idea what those would be becuase she isn't in my society. In this society (where I am at), a wife is treated very different than a mom. People allow you to have flaws as a wife or a single woman. But as a mom, they can't make room for your flaws because they all affect your children, and for sake of the children, everybody has an opinion on how you are living your life all the sudden and must shove it down your throat. Many times, they are so wrong it's incredible that people can be so wrong. Like I've been told feeding my kid healthy amounts of formula is child abuse because she was overweight and I should have been putting a baby on a diet malnourishing her. That's just one example. I get a plethora of stupid judgements on a regular basis, and i also get a plethora of regular judgements on a regular basis that really don't matter (like a little clutter in the house). Again, unless you know where I'm coming from, then you will never understand the gravity of the situation to formulate an honest opinion on it. Many moms in the US do know where I'm coming from, like most of this can go without being said. Not all moms in the US do, but more moms in the US know where I"m coming from than wives in Australia. Don't get me wrong, I remember life before motherhood, well some of it anyway. And I do remember swearing i knew what I was talking about. I know that i had good advice for moms back then, and i'm sure Saspie has great advice for moms now. But in this specific case, she is obviously lacking insight to win her argument with me. |
You used none of those arguments against her when you originally posted. You basically said, "You're a mom; you don't understand." To suggest that there were other factors at play here is, frankly, a bit disingenuous.
It also sounds like you care way too much about how others think you are raising your child. Is this what it's like to be NT? I think this plays perfectly into parental insecurity. We worry about what other people think about the way we raise kids as a sort of external validation that we are doing it correctly. Sure, if you have faith in society's opinion of you, I could see how this would be very hard. But when you know you are doing your best and giving your child what you consider to be the best, everyone else's opinion does not matter.
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"That leap of logic should have broken his legs." - Janissy |
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Tantybi
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Age: 31
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you Greentea.  |
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Tantybi
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
Age: 31
Posts: 1091
Location: Wonderland
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| fiddlerpianist wrote: | | Tantybi wrote: | | I didn't say all marriages are like mine or you are living in lalaland. I said certain things happen in marriages and those who suggest otherwise are living in lalaland. |
"Like yours" in that you have to resort to "certain techniques", not completely "like yours." Sorry that was not more obvious.
By "certain techniques" you meant this:
| Tantybi wrote: | | Guilt trips, you can't tell me you never tried to make a man feel guilty about doing you wrong? You can't tell me either that in all the years you've been married your man has never made a mistake you had to deal with, whether you dealt with it using arguments, whining, guilt trips, or what have ya, you can't tell me your relationship has been 100% perfect from day one. If you really think that where you never had to resort to any type of psychological technique to improve the situation, then I will tell you for certain that you are in la la land. |
If, by psychological techniques, you mean engaging in open dialog, then I agree with you. However, I don't think that's what you mean. There's an air of subversity to the psychological techniques you describe. My wife and I do not play psychological games. Period.
| Tantybi wrote: | | The tactic you claim I use? Wow, were you not the one telling me in another post that models (i.e. paradigms) do not really relate to real life. |
No, actually. I said that a model cannot paint a complete picture. I never said that it does not relate to real life in some way. If that were the case, it would be a pretty crappy model.
| Tantybi wrote: | | That's all the woman has to work from, a paradigm created in her mind, in her opinion. Yeah, I discount it when I realize it in no way relates to real life. |
It goes both ways, then. Your opinion is invalidated when you speak about anything that you have no experience dealing with. Your opinion about being on welfare: invalid. Your opinion about working an forty-hour a week job for a corporation to support your family: irrelevant. Your opinion about the nature of marriages whose core nature is nothing like yours: useless. |
Open dialogue is the technique I use since it is required for every technique I've ever used. So yeah, that would be included.
You can claim your marriage is perfect and does not have guilt trips or rewards going on in it all you want, but I'm a doubting it. I could be wrong, but still I'm a doubtinher.
Her model was only a small wittle portion of my whole picture.
I do have experience being on welfare as stated. So my opinion, validated. Working 40 hours a week for a corporation to support your family...again validated. Been there and done that. Nature of marriages whose core nature is nothing like mine, then it isn't a marriage you speak of, or it's probably more dysfunctional than what I'm dealing with because see, I deal with my problems rather than pretending they don't exist or pretending I'm on such a high horse that I'm too good to deal with them.
and on
| Quote: | You used none of those arguments against her when you originally posted. You basically said, "You're a mom; you don't understand." To suggest that there were other factors at play here is, frankly, a bit disingenuous.
It also sounds like you care way too much about how others think you are raising your child. Is this what it's like to be NT? I think this plays perfectly into parental insecurity. We worry about what other people think about the way we raise kids as a sort of external validation that we are doing it correctly. Sure, if you have faith in society's opinion of you, I could see how this would be very hard. But when you know you are doing your best and giving your child what you consider to be the best, everyone else's opinion does not matter. |
I can't really speak my whole mind here. But to sum up that arguments is basically, you are not a mom so therefore you wouldn't know everything being a mom entails. Saspie does not sound like an idiot to me. I really believe if she wore my shoes for a week, her opinions would be very different than what she's stating.
To suggest other factors at play is disingenous? No, what really lacks sincerity is when someone tells you that you are wrong and you are a horrible person for handling a situation the way you are handling it, and I know absolutely nothing about your situation nor do I want to and because of you, I really don't want to, and to be honest, I just don't think I can handle your situation so I avoid it, but I still have a strong opinion about what you should do.
I do know I'm doing my best at raising my kids. Other people's opinions do matter though, and your best isn't always good enough. You do or you don't in this world. THere is no such thing as try. Doctors, Landlords, social workers, etc. all of them have an opinion about my ability to take care of my family. If their opinion of me is shy of decent, they are required by law to start the process to have my abilities investigated by complete morons in a completely political and biased world who have the power to remove my children from my home no matter if my kids need it or not (we call it CPS). it won't stop there. When my kids are in the school system, everyone's opinion of me will reflect on my kids (the way they view my kids, and the way they treat them). Law enforcement (very small town here) will be the same way. It's called creating an image of yourself, and it's very important in an NT world, but you are more than welcome to jump on the Aspergia bandwagon if you don't like it. |
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Saspie
Velociraptor
Joined: May 15, 2009
Age: 25
Posts: 400
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Tantybi wrote: |
Exactly. You would do something very similar to what I'm doing that you so strongly believe against. IN fact your opinion on the subject contradicts itself. Leaving a man because he doesn't fit your expectations is okay, but telling him you are going to leave him if he doesn't change is bullying. |
You are staying in a crappy relationship. It is very different to what I would do. I would not tell a man to change or I'd leave him. I'd leave someone so as to not change them. People rarely change.
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Don't make out that it's unacceptable to use my methods. You are not God and you got to remove yourself from that pedestal you think you stand on. |
I can say what I want. I think your methods are unacceptable. It's my opinion. You don't agree. Big deal.
| Quote: |
Your techniques? Let's see, instead of just being, I feel this and I feel that, you are saying, You are wrong. You've brought my kids into it, by how I'm setting the example, which is a form of guilt because it's saying that what I"m doing is bad to my kids in your opinion. Like maybe if I thought about my kids I would change my mind and cave in to say you are right and I am wrong. You also point out many times how your mom is better than me because she got dumped and didn't have to be in my situation (which our men are two different stories as mine isn't cheating on me with another woman nor does he have a cocaine addiction), and you do not wish to be me, and because of me, you do not wish to have kids. That's insulting and also a form of serious bullying and abuse. If you talk like that to your husband, you are worse than me. IN fact, the idea that you talk like that to me makes you a little worse than me. I have never pretended that you are such an awful person that I'm glad I'm not you. |
That is not a technique, that is my opinion. If you do not like it, you cannot just claim I am using some psychological trick on you. That doesn't make sense. I could say the reverse about you but I think it is fine for those to express their opinions. I am not attacking you, I am attacking your methods. You seem to have a real problem with someone disagreeing with you and I cannot work out why... I never said my mother was better than you, I used her as an example of how things can work out after marriage break ups. But of course, she is my mother and I think the world of her so if you must know I do think she is better than you, but she is better than all mothers I know
Anyway you keep reading things into my posts that simply are not there. I say exactly what I mean but you keep saying I am implying things. I really dislike to talk to people like that as it is so unproductive so I'll leave it here. |
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Tantybi
Phoenix
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Age: 31
Posts: 1091
Location: Wonderland
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Saspie wrote: | | Tantybi wrote: |
Exactly. You would do something very similar to what I'm doing that you so strongly believe against. IN fact your opinion on the subject contradicts itself. Leaving a man because he doesn't fit your expectations is okay, but telling him you are going to leave him if he doesn't change is bullying. |
You are staying in a crappy relationship. It is very different to what I would do. I would not tell a man to change or I'd leave him. I'd leave someone so as to not change them. People rarely change.
| Quote: |
Don't make out that it's unacceptable to use my methods. You are not God and you got to remove yourself from that pedestal you think you stand on. |
I can say what I want. I think your methods are unacceptable. It's my opinion. You don't agree. Big deal.
| Quote: |
Your techniques? Let's see, instead of just being, I feel this and I feel that, you are saying, You are wrong. You've brought my kids into it, by how I'm setting the example, which is a form of guilt because it's saying that what I"m doing is bad to my kids in your opinion. Like maybe if I thought about my kids I would change my mind and cave in to say you are right and I am wrong. You also point out many times how your mom is better than me because she got dumped and didn't have to be in my situation (which our men are two different stories as mine isn't cheating on me with another woman nor does he have a cocaine addiction), and you do not wish to be me, and because of me, you do not wish to have kids. That's insulting and also a form of serious bullying and abuse. If you talk like that to your husband, you are worse than me. IN fact, the idea that you talk like that to me makes you a little worse than me. I have never pretended that you are such an awful person that I'm glad I'm not you. |
That is not a technique, that is my opinion. If you do not like it, you cannot just claim I am using some psychological trick on you. That doesn't make sense. I could say the reverse about you but I think it is fine for those to express their opinions. I am not attacking you, I am attacking your methods. You seem to have a real problem with someone disagreeing with you and I cannot work out why... I never said my mother was better than you, I used her as an example of how things can work out after marriage break ups. But of course, she is my mother and I think the world of her so if you must know I do think she is better than you, but she is better than all mothers I know
Anyway you keep reading things into my posts that simply are not there. I say exactly what I mean but you keep saying I am implying things. I really dislike to talk to people like that as it is so unproductive so I'll leave it here. |
Whether you realize it or not, and whether you intended it or not, you still use the same methods that you argue are awful methods to use. |
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fiddlerpianist
Unclassified and loving it!
Joined: May 01, 2009
Age: 32
Posts: 1638
Location: The Autistic Hinterlands
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| Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:28 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Tantybi"][quote="fiddlerpianist"] | Tantybi wrote: | | I didn't say all marriages are like mine or you are living in lalaland. I said certain things happen in marriages and those who suggest otherwise are living in lalaland. |
"Like yours" in that you have to resort to "certain techniques", not completely "like yours." Sorry that was not more obvious.
| Tantybi wrote: | | Guilt trips, you can't tell me you never tried to make a man feel guilty about doing you wrong? You can't tell me either that in all the years you've been married your man has never made a mistake you had to deal with, whether you dealt with it using arguments, whining, guilt trips, or what have ya, you can't tell me your relationship has been 100% perfect from day one. If you really think that where you never had to resort to any type of psychological technique to improve the situation, then I will tell you for certain that you are in la la land. |
| Tantybi wrote: | | Open dialogue is the technique I use since it is required for every technique I've ever used. So yeah, that would be included. |
Heh. Sorry, I don't believe you. Your words when your guard is down speak louder than the words you speak now.
| Tantybi wrote: | | You can claim your marriage is perfect and does not have guilt trips or rewards going on in it all you want, but I'm a doubting it. I could be wrong, but still I'm a doubtinher. |
And the basis for your opinion is what? Oh right, you don't have any idea what it's like to have a marriage which is based on open, honest communication. You wouldn't understand.
| Tantybi wrote: | | Nature of marriages whose core nature is nothing like mine, then it isn't a marriage you speak of, or it's probably more dysfunctional than what I'm dealing with because see, I deal with my problems rather than pretending they don't exist or pretending I'm on such a high horse that I'm too good to deal with them. |
Those are some really wild assumptions. Where did I say that my relationship doesn't have issues? How did you get the idea that I feel that I'm "too good to deal with them"?
I think I get it now. You're frustrated and backed into a corner, so your only option is to fling mud. Why are you so desperately trying to prove that you are right to people who simply aren't going to agree with you? It's probably better off for this thread to simply end.
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"That leap of logic should have broken his legs." - Janissy |
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Tantybi
Phoenix
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Age: 31
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| Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:32 am Post subject: |
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[quote="fiddlerpianist"][quote="Tantybi"] | fiddlerpianist wrote: | | Tantybi wrote: | | I didn't say all marriages are like mine or you are living in lalaland. I said certain things happen in marriages and those who suggest otherwise are living in lalaland. |
"Like yours" in that you have to resort to "certain techniques", not completely "like yours." Sorry that was not more obvious.
| Tantybi wrote: | | Guilt trips, you can't tell me you never tried to make a man feel guilty about doing you wrong? You can't tell me either that in all the years you've been married your man has never made a mistake you had to deal with, whether you dealt with it using arguments, whining, guilt trips, or what have ya, you can't tell me your relationship has been 100% perfect from day one. If you really think that where you never had to resort to any type of psychological technique to improve the situation, then I will tell you for certain that you are in la la land. |
| Tantybi wrote: | | Open dialogue is the technique I use since it is required for every technique I've ever used. So yeah, that would be included. |
Heh. Sorry, I don't believe you. Your words when your guard is down speak louder than the words you speak now.
| Tantybi wrote: | | You can claim your marriage is perfect and does not have guilt trips or rewards going on in it all you want, but I'm a doubting it. I could be wrong, but still I'm a doubtinher. |
And the basis for your opinion is what? Oh right, you don't have any idea what it's like to have a marriage which is based on open, honest communication. You wouldn't understand.
| Tantybi wrote: | | Nature of marriages whose core nature is nothing like mine, then it isn't a marriage you speak of, or it's probably more dysfunctional than what I'm dealing with because see, I deal with my problems rather than pretending they don't exist or pretending I'm on such a high horse that I'm too good to deal with them. |
Those are some really wild assumptions. Where did I say that my relationship doesn't have issues? How did you get the idea that I feel that I'm "too good to deal with them"?
I think I get it now. You're frustrated and backed into a corner, so your only option is to fling mud. Why are you so desperately trying to prove that you are right to people who simply aren't going to agree with you? It's probably better off for this thread to simply end. |
So are you saying your approach to the argument being, "I"m right and you're wrong, end of discussion" is much more successful than my appraoch? At least in your approach, whose the dog and whose the master is much more obvious. |
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fiddlerpianist
Unclassified and loving it!
Joined: May 01, 2009
Age: 32
Posts: 1638
Location: The Autistic Hinterlands
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| Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:10 am Post subject: |
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| Tantybi wrote: | | fiddlerpianist wrote: | | Tantybi wrote: | | I didn't say all marriages are like mine or you are living in lalaland. I said certain things happen in marriages and those who suggest otherwise are living in lalaland. |
"Like yours" in that you have to resort to "certain techniques", not completely "like yours." Sorry that was not more obvious.
| Tantybi wrote: | | Guilt trips, you can't tell me you never tried to make a man feel guilty about doing you wrong? You can't tell me either that in all the years you've been married your man has never made a mistake you had to deal with, whether you dealt with it using arguments, whining, guilt trips, or what have ya, you can't tell me your relationship has been 100% perfect from day one. If you really think that where you never had to resort to any type of psychological technique to improve the situation, then I will tell you for certain that you are in la la land. |
| Tantybi wrote: | | Open dialogue is the technique I use since it is required for every technique I've ever used. So yeah, that would be included. |
Heh. Sorry, I don't believe you. Your words when your guard is down speak louder than the words you speak now.
| Tantybi wrote: | | You can claim your marriage is perfect and does not have guilt trips or rewards going on in it all you want, but I'm a doubting it. I could be wrong, but still I'm a doubtinher. |
And the basis for your opinion is what? Oh right, you don't have any idea what it's like to have a marriage which is based on open, honest communication. You wouldn't understand.
| Tantybi wrote: | | Nature of marriages whose core nature is nothing like mine, then it isn't a marriage you speak of, or it's probably more dysfunctional than what I'm dealing with because see, I deal with my problems rather than pretending they don't exist or pretending I'm on such a high horse that I'm too good to deal with them. |
Those are some really wild assumptions. Where did I say that my relationship doesn't have issues? How did you get the idea that I feel that I'm "too good to deal with them"?
I think I get it now. You're frustrated and backed into a corner, so your only option is to fling mud. Why are you so desperately trying to prove that you are right to people who simply aren't going to agree with you? It's probably better off for this thread to simply end. |
So are you saying your approach to the argument being, "I"m right and you're wrong, end of discussion" is much more successful than my appraoch? At least in your approach, whose the dog and whose the master is much more obvious. |
There's that saying... it goes like this:
| Quote: | | Never wrestle with a pig: You both get all dirty, and the pig likes it. |
I've already gotten my hands muddier than I would like. Have a great day.
_________________
"That leap of logic should have broken his legs." - Janissy |
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Tantybi
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
Age: 31
Posts: 1091
Location: Wonderland
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| Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:28 am Post subject: |
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| fiddlerpianist wrote: | | Tantybi wrote: | | fiddlerpianist wrote: | | Tantybi wrote: | | I didn't say all marriages are like mine or you are living in lalaland. I said certain things happen in marriages and those who suggest otherwise are living in lalaland. |
"Like yours" in that you have to resort to "certain techniques", not completely "like yours." Sorry that was not more obvious.
| Tantybi wrote: | | Guilt trips, you can't tell me you never tried to make a man feel guilty about doing you wrong? You can't tell me either that in all the years you've been married your man has never made a mistake you had to deal with, whether you dealt with it using arguments, whining, guilt trips, or what have ya, you can't tell me your relationship has been 100% perfect from day one. If you really think that where you never had to resort to any type of psychological technique to improve the situation, then I will tell you for certain that you are in la la land. |
| Tantybi wrote: | | Open dialogue is the technique I use since it is required for every technique I've ever used. So yeah, that would be included. |
Heh. Sorry, I don't believe you. Your words when your guard is down speak louder than the words you speak now.
| Tantybi wrote: | | You can claim your marriage is perfect and does not have guilt trips or rewards going on in it all you want, but I'm a doubting it. I could be wrong, but still I'm a doubtinher. |
And the basis for your opinion is what? Oh right, you don't have any idea what it's like to have a marriage which is based on open, honest communication. You wouldn't understand.
| Tantybi wrote: | | Nature of marriages whose core nature is nothing like mine, then it isn't a marriage you speak of, or it's probably more dysfunctional than what I'm dealing with because see, I deal with my problems rather than pretending they don't exist or pretending I'm on such a high horse that I'm too good to deal with them. |
Those are some really wild assumptions. Where did I say that my relationship doesn't have issues? How did you get the idea that I feel that I'm "too good to deal with them"?
I think I get it now. You're frustrated and backed into a corner, so your only option is to fling mud. Why are you so desperately trying to prove that you are right to people who simply aren't going to agree with you? It's probably better off for this thread to simply end. |
So are you saying your approach to the argument being, "I"m right and you're wrong, end of discussion" is much more successful than my appraoch? At least in your approach, whose the dog and whose the master is much more obvious. |
There's that saying... it goes like this:
| Quote: | | Never wrestle with a pig: You both get all dirty, and the pig likes it. |
I've already gotten my hands muddier than I would like. Have a great day. |
See, now you are making me hungry. I love pork 
Either way, I have no problem with people disagreeing with me. But it's one thing to say, "well I don't care for how you put it" or even "that advice isn't for me," but it's another thing to say, "You are all these bad things for saying this or thinking that." You and a few others didn't just disagree with me. No y'all judged me. Sorry if I stood up for myself there and threw some mud your way... I was only returning what was already yours. |
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