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| hell yeah |
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6% |
[ 9 ] |
| hell yeah |
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6% |
[ 9 ] |
| hell no |
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26% |
[ 37 ] |
| hell no |
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26% |
[ 37 ] |
| i can not awnser this question honestally |
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2% |
[ 3 ] |
| i can not awnser this question honestally |
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2% |
[ 3 ] |
| well he dose his job |
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4% |
[ 6 ] |
| well he dose his job |
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4% |
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| im a red neck and all i want is a gun |
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0% |
[ 1 ] |
| im a red neck and all i want is a gun |
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0% |
[ 1 ] |
| i dont care about this |
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2% |
[ 4 ] |
| i dont care about this |
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2% |
[ 4 ] |
| i cant trust him with my life |
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6% |
[ 9 ] |
| i cant trust him with my life |
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6% |
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| Total Votes : 138 |
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PlatypusMan
Snowy Owl
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Joined: Jan 17, 2006
Posts: 167
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 Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| McJeff wrote: | Fox News isn't news, it's pundits putting a hard-right spin on the same things everyone else put a hard-left spin on. For it to count as news, there has to be at least a veneer of impartiality, and Fox doesn't even attempt that.
Now other than that, you managed to jump from welfare, which does keep people ignorant, to social security, which is completely different. So while I agree with the portion of your post in regards to social security, I don't believe it attempted to refute what I said. |
wel·fare Audio pronunciation of "welfare" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (wlfâr)
n.
1. 1. Health, happiness, and good fortune; well-being. 2. Prosperity.
2. Welfare work.
3. 1. Financial or other aid provided, especially by the government, to people in need.
By definition, Social Security IS welfare. In fact, Social Security is the basis of our welfare system.
Welfare is not meant to keep people ignorant. If it was, then no money would be put into public schools and federal grants for schooling wouldn't exist. If you awnt a people htat you can control, educating them is the LAST thing you would ever want to do. The welfare system has protections built into it that require people who draw welfare to get jobs. Yes, there are flaws and many people manage to get away with not working, but with such a large system it is inevitable.
| Quote: | Sadly, the rest of your post is mainly correct - just incorrectly applied to Republicans instead of both parties. Developers, such as the parent company that owns WalMart, are the biggest contributors to campaign finances, and so ALL politicians will bend over backwards and grovel to make the companies happy. And what makes them happy is shipping their labor overseas where there is no minimum wage and they can hire work for 2 cents an hour.
And if you think the Democrats are going to try and change that, you're a lunatic. They want that campaign money too. |
Oh don't worry, I don't think the Democratic party is all high and mighty either, I'm just saying tha tthey have AT LEAST tried to help out the people at the bottom. Whilst the Republican party just keeps getting richer. Both sides are corrupt to the core.
Most of the money contributed by big business is to the Republican party, which is why places like Wal-Mart have been able to get away with screwing their employees (figuratively speaking, of course). Low wages, crappy hours (when my step-dad was a manager-esque person at Wal-Mart, they made him work overtime without paying him for it on some occasions). |
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Endersdragon
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 14, 2005
Posts: 1666
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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Okay a couple things that I would like to address that Ive seen here, Lincoln did far worse things but is still considered one of the best if not the best president in US history (think about it he launched and unprovoked war against a soverign democracy (well sorta the south was defientally more democratic then Iraq was.) Also in the 2000 democratic party platform they quite clearly said "we will seek to remove him (Hussein) from power", that sounds to me like they could have indeed launched the war, especcially after 9/11, how they would have done it I don't pretend to know but its all right there (and Im sure its still online so feel free to check it out.) The main problem Ive seen in the last election is that they were too polorized (NE democrat vs southern republican.)
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Sophist
Professor of Pedantry
Joined: Apr 24, 2005
Posts: 6170
Location: St. Louie
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| McJeff wrote: | | Sophist wrote: | | Bullcrap. Most people stay on disability because the jobs they could get, they would be making less than they would on Welfare or Disability |
Thank you for making my point for me.
If the people make more than the minimum wage on welfare, plus extra for each kid they have, they're never going to get a job because it's more work for less money. So you see, the welfare system does prevent people from climbing up the social chain. |
But my point is that the Republican government has kept it at the bare minimum. Welfare could be reformed so that it actually helped people and didn't make them dependent. I agree that at the bare minimum, the Reps like to keep these people dependent on the Welfare solely. But that doesn't mean Welfare in general is bad. It's just Welfare the way it is right now is bad. But it could be improved. Democrats are the more likely to put through social reforms hopefully thereby improving the Welfare system from what it is now.
That's no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater, McJeff.
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Endersdragon
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 14, 2005
Posts: 1666
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Sophist wrote: | | McJeff wrote: | | Sophist wrote: | | Bullcrap. Most people stay on disability because the jobs they could get, they would be making less than they would on Welfare or Disability |
Thank you for making my point for me.
If the people make more than the minimum wage on welfare, plus extra for each kid they have, they're never going to get a job because it's more work for less money. So you see, the welfare system does prevent people from climbing up the social chain. |
But my point is that the Republican government has kept it at the bare minimum. Welfare could be reformed so that it actually helped people and didn't make them dependent. I agree that at the bare minimum, the Reps like to keep these people dependent on the Welfare solely. But that doesn't mean Welfare in general is bad. It's just Welfare the way it is right now is bad. But it could be improved. Democrats are the more likely to put through social reforms hopefully thereby improving the Welfare system from what it is now.
That's no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater, McJeff. |
I still say we take all money out of welfare (besides that for disability) and put it into pel grants and other things to promote education to promote that they get off of dependancy.
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"we never get respect ... never a fair trial
no one gives a sh** ... as long as we smile"
Im tired of smiling.
Vote for me in 2020 |
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Sophist
Professor of Pedantry
Joined: Apr 24, 2005
Posts: 6170
Location: St. Louie
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Endersdragon wrote: | | Sophist wrote: | | McJeff wrote: | | Sophist wrote: | | Bullcrap. Most people stay on disability because the jobs they could get, they would be making less than they would on Welfare or Disability |
Thank you for making my point for me.
If the people make more than the minimum wage on welfare, plus extra for each kid they have, they're never going to get a job because it's more work for less money. So you see, the welfare system does prevent people from climbing up the social chain. |
But my point is that the Republican government has kept it at the bare minimum. Welfare could be reformed so that it actually helped people and didn't make them dependent. I agree that at the bare minimum, the Reps like to keep these people dependent on the Welfare solely. But that doesn't mean Welfare in general is bad. It's just Welfare the way it is right now is bad. But it could be improved. Democrats are the more likely to put through social reforms hopefully thereby improving the Welfare system from what it is now.
That's no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater, McJeff. |
I still say we take all money out of welfare (besides that for disability) and put it into pel grants and other things to promote education to promote that they get off of dependancy. |
I say we take all the money away from the government that they don't need and give it back to the people. There are no greater leeches on tax payers than the politicians.
And then we can put it into education which can help prevent some need for Welfare as well as other educational programs. We should also put more money into other aid programs. We can also figure out how to create and sustain more jobs.
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McJeff
Banned
Joined: Nov 05, 2005
Posts: 361
Location: The greatest country in the world: The USA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Sophist wrote: | | McJeff wrote: | | Sophist wrote: | | Bullcrap. Most people stay on disability because the jobs they could get, they would be making less than they would on Welfare or Disability |
Thank you for making my point for me.
If the people make more than the minimum wage on welfare, plus extra for each kid they have, they're never going to get a job because it's more work for less money. So you see, the welfare system does prevent people from climbing up the social chain. |
But my point is that the Republican government has kept it at the bare minimum. Welfare could be reformed so that it actually helped people and didn't make them dependent. I agree that at the bare minimum, the Reps like to keep these people dependent on the Welfare solely. But that doesn't mean Welfare in general is bad. It's just Welfare the way it is right now is bad. But it could be improved. Democrats are the more likely to put through social reforms hopefully thereby improving the Welfare system from what it is now.
That's no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater, McJeff. |
I'll agree with you that welfare, if done right, could be a good thing - and I've been in favor of ripping apart the system completely and rebuilding it from the ground up. To use a really crappy analogy, if life is a swimming pool, welfare should be swimming lessons instead of waterwings.
I've just never seen any serious attempts by mainstream Democrats (Clinton, Dean, Kennedy etc) to make any of these changes you're saying the Democratic party could make. While there's several Democrats I'd gladly vote for over Republicans (Obama), the ones with the party backing just aren't actually making any improvements - they're just throwing more taxpayer money at it. Money that, as a small business owner (sort of), I can't afford to have taken from me.
I get carried away with the anti-Democrat sometimes because just thinking of Hillary and Teddy makes me so angry my hands and arms shake so badly I can't type, but I'm not really anti-Democrat and if the parties actually ran along the lines they're supposed to, I'd probably vote Democrat more often than not. I just, right now, see the Republicans as the lesser of two evils, because the Democrats are going to take my money, give it to the people that vandalize my apartments and do absolutely nothing for me. |
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Sophist
Professor of Pedantry
Joined: Apr 24, 2005
Posts: 6170
Location: St. Louie
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| McJeff wrote: | | Sophist wrote: | | McJeff wrote: | | Sophist wrote: | | Bullcrap. Most people stay on disability because the jobs they could get, they would be making less than they would on Welfare or Disability |
Thank you for making my point for me.
If the people make more than the minimum wage on welfare, plus extra for each kid they have, they're never going to get a job because it's more work for less money. So you see, the welfare system does prevent people from climbing up the social chain. |
But my point is that the Republican government has kept it at the bare minimum. Welfare could be reformed so that it actually helped people and didn't make them dependent. I agree that at the bare minimum, the Reps like to keep these people dependent on the Welfare solely. But that doesn't mean Welfare in general is bad. It's just Welfare the way it is right now is bad. But it could be improved. Democrats are the more likely to put through social reforms hopefully thereby improving the Welfare system from what it is now.
That's no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater, McJeff. |
I'll agree with you that welfare, if done right, could be a good thing - and I've been in favor of ripping apart the system completely and rebuilding it from the ground up. To use a really crappy analogy, if life is a swimming pool, welfare should be swimming lessons instead of waterwings.
I've just never seen any serious attempts by mainstream Democrats (Clinton, Dean, Kennedy etc) to make any of these changes you're saying the Democratic party could make. While there's several Democrats I'd gladly vote for over Republicans (Obama), the ones with the party backing just aren't actually making any improvements - they're just throwing more taxpayer money at it. Money that, as a small business owner (sort of), I can't afford to have taken from me.
I get carried away with the anti-Democrat sometimes because just thinking of Hillary and Teddy makes me so angry my hands and arms shake so badly I can't type, but I'm not really anti-Democrat and if the parties actually ran along the lines they're supposed to, I'd probably vote Democrat more often than not. I just, right now, see the Republicans as the lesser of two evils, because the Democrats are going to take my money, give it to the people that vandalize my apartments and do absolutely nothing for me. |
Hehe, and I see the Republicans as the people who rob the poor to give to the rich.
Shall we just abolish the whole governmental system and start over? Because I agree, both parties are corrupt. I vote Democratic because I feel Democrats tend to do less damage than Republicans to the general population (the rich are not included in this "general population"). And my voting goal these days is simply to vote in those who I think will do the least amount of damage within 2 or 4 years. I'm realistic. I no longer think to myself, "I'll vote in those who will do this country good!" LOL!
Sad that such cynicism has become reality... 
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Mithrandir
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 19, 2004
Age: 22
Posts: 608
Location: Victoria, BC Canada
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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People need essentials.
We need food, water, clothing and shelter.
What is the best way to guarantee that everyone will recieve these essentials?
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Endersdragon
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 14, 2005
Posts: 1666
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Mithrandir wrote: | People need essentials.
We need food, water, clothing and shelter.
What is the best way to guarantee that everyone will recieve these essentials? |
Elimanate the fundimental economic problem of scarcity , or elimanate all nonneeds so we can produce more needs hmmm.
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no one gives a sh** ... as long as we smile"
Im tired of smiling.
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PlatypusMan
Snowy Owl
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Joined: Jan 17, 2006
Posts: 167
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:06 am Post subject: |
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| Sophist wrote: |
Hehe, and I see the Republicans as the people who rob the poor to give to the rich.
Shall we just abolish the whole governmental system and start over? Because I agree, both parties are corrupt. I vote Democratic because I feel Democrats tend to do less damage than Republicans to the general population (the rich are not included in this "general population"). And my voting goal these days is simply to vote in those who I think will do the least amount of damage within 2 or 4 years. I'm realistic. I no longer think to myself, "I'll vote in those who will do this country good!" LOL!
Sad that such cynicism has become reality... |
You know...that's not such a bad idea. And it is something the Founding Fathers did have in mind...
From the Declaration of Independence:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the consent of the governed, -- That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new guards for their future security -- Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. -- The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States."
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Sophist
Professor of Pedantry
Joined: Apr 24, 2005
Posts: 6170
Location: St. Louie
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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I, personally, would like to secede my apartment from the United States of America and begin my own country. Is there a bare minimum of people as to what constitutes a country? And will I need a passport in order to leave my apartment?
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Endersdragon
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 14, 2005
Posts: 1666
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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They did that on one of the Fox cartoon once (Family Guy I think), didnt work out too well for them America invaded.
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"we never get respect ... never a fair trial
no one gives a sh** ... as long as we smile"
Im tired of smiling.
Vote for me in 2020 |
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PlatypusMan
Snowy Owl
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Joined: Jan 17, 2006
Posts: 167
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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I'm more curious about what would happen if the country were to suddenly rise up and plainly tell the Bush administration to just leave.
The Country: "Um, George, we would like you to take your cabinet and leave."
Bush: "No."
I can see it happening.
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"...whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government..."~Declaration of Indepencence |
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Awesomelyglorious
Destroyer of worlds, reaver of souls
Joined: Dec 18, 2005
Posts: 6131
Location: United States
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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The country could theoretically force Bush out of his office if enough power if concentrated upon that goal. We have tried to impeach presidents in the past mainly for the reason that we did not like them. President Johnson(I think?... errr the guy who became president after lincoln was shot) was almost impeached for violating a law that congress just made up to freeze lincoln's cabinet in place even though the president really should have control over his own cabinet. Congressmen being fearful for public office would probably back a movement to remove Bush from office if it was popular enough(it has to be really really popular and fanatical). However, in the real world the country could not remove Bush because there are enough people who would not go to that extreme in wanting Bush out and out removed. Most people accept his election as legitimate and would not deny him his final 4 years.
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Destroying reality since the end of time. |
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Sophist
Professor of Pedantry
Joined: Apr 24, 2005
Posts: 6170
Location: St. Louie
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Endersdragon wrote: | | They did that on one of the Fox cartoon once (Family Guy I think), didnt work out too well for them America invaded. |
It would be just my luck I'd end up being invaded and become a territory of the United States.
But I wonder if that means I'd still have to pay rent... Probably. Ownership is ownership I guess.
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