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dossa
Deinonychus
Joined: Aug 25, 2009
Age: 32
Posts: 307
Location: Wonderland, Alice...
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 Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| CRD wrote: | | To be fair to the state of Louisiana they have a long history of the races intermixing. If this Mr. Bardwell is from Louisiana I'm sure it wouldn't take much digging to find black, indians or jews in his own family tree. This intermixing is one the things that makes Louisiana the interesting place it is. I think it's sad that Mr. Bardwell fails to see this. |
I think this ^ is what bothered me the most about this article. My husband has family who has lived in Hammond for a long long time. For all outward appearances, my husband is black. The reality of it is though, he is related to most of the people in Hammond. He once went to visit his grandparents for a summer and took to liking a girl (a white girl) and his grandmother informed him that he could not date her because they were kin. I bet if I were to be obnoxiously nosy, I could find where the judges lineage (assuming he and his our from Hammond) meets up with my husbands. The hypocrisy of it all upset me.
Yeah, the guy is entitled to his opinion, but if he is unable to keep his personal feelings regarding such issues out of his job, perhaps he should find a different job. I am entitled to believe that fifty dollar sweaters are a stupid waste of money, but if I worked in a store that sold them I would be fired for telling the customers that I won't sell them one, but some other store will. I fear he is using 'the children' as a way to not sound like the bigot he seems to be. The state says it is ok for whites and blacks to marry... should he be legally allowed to turn them away? That sets a scary precedence.
This man is a government official who is practicing a form of bigotry. I find that scary. And the fact that it has been allowed to happen on multiple occasions makes it all that much more upsetting to me. I cannot believe this community has allowed this to go on.
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Apple_in_my_Eye
Phoenix
Joined: May 08, 2008
Age: 41
Posts: 638
Location: Youessae, on the Pacific side
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| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: Hammond justice refuses to marry an interracial couple |
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| dossa wrote: |
"I'm not a racist. I just don't believe in mixing the races that way," Bardwell told the Associated Press on Thursday. "I have piles and piles of black friends. They come to my home, I marry them, they use my bathroom. I treat them just like everyone else." |
WTF?
You might be a racist if... it even occurs to you that bathroom use has a racial consideration to it.
Ok, maybe I'm naiive -- maybe where he lives the racial-bathroom issue is on a lot of people's minds. But it still seems weird. |
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number5
Deinonychus
Joined: Jun 16, 2009
Posts: 360
Location: central NY
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| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: Hammond justice refuses to marry an interracial couple |
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| Apple_in_my_Eye wrote: | | dossa wrote: |
"I'm not a racist. I just don't believe in mixing the races that way," Bardwell told the Associated Press on Thursday. "I have piles and piles of black friends. They come to my home, I marry them, they use my bathroom. I treat them just like everyone else." |
WTF?
You might be a racist if... it even occurs to you that bathroom use has a racial consideration to it.
Ok, maybe I'm naiive -- maybe where he lives the racial-bathroom issue is on a lot of people's minds. But it still seems weird. |
Exactly. The guy's a racist and he acted on it, plain and simple. |
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RainSong
Seatbelts Totally Cause Autism
Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 4451
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:58 pm Post subject: Re: Hammond justice refuses to marry an interracial couple |
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This whole thing reminds of the quote,
| Quote: | | It’s like people who say “no offense” and then assume they can say whatever they want, free from blame. Like, “I’m not racist, but I think Puerto Ricans should be kept in cages. What? I said I’m not racist.” |
| Apple_in_my_Eye wrote: | | dossa wrote: |
"I'm not a racist. I just don't believe in mixing the races that way," Bardwell told the Associated Press on Thursday. "I have piles and piles of black friends. They come to my home, I marry them, they use my bathroom. I treat them just like everyone else." |
WTF?
You might be a racist if... it even occurs to you that bathroom use has a racial consideration to it.
Ok, maybe I'm naiive -- maybe where he lives the racial-bathroom issue is on a lot of people's minds. But it still seems weird. |
I suspect this comes from the fact that bathrooms used to be publicly segregated; there was a "white" bathroom and a "colored" bathroom, much like there were sections on the bus and different schools. And since he probably doesn't own a bus or operate a school, bathroom was the only thing that fit.
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"Nothing worth having is easy."
Empathy is when you feel the emotions of someone else despite never having been through the same or similar situation. Sympathy is when you feel the emotions and have been through the same or similar situation. |
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Apple_in_my_Eye
Phoenix
Joined: May 08, 2008
Age: 41
Posts: 638
Location: Youessae, on the Pacific side
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| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:31 pm Post subject: Re: Hammond justice refuses to marry an interracial couple |
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| RainSong wrote: | | I suspect this comes from the fact that bathrooms used to be publicly segregated; there was a "white" bathroom and a "colored" bathroom, much like there were sections on the bus and different schools. And since he probably doesn't own a bus or operate a school, bathroom was the only thing that fit. |
Yeah, but he sounded like he was talking about his bathroom at home. Those weren't legally segregated, presumably because a black person would never get in the house in the first place. That makes me think he's not talking about history so much as, "they shouldn't be in the house (or the bathroom), but I let them in there anyway, no matter how distressing that is." |
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DeaconBlues
They call Alabama the Crimson Tide - call me...
Joined: Apr 22, 2007
Posts: 2263
Location: Earth, mostly
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| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:59 am Post subject: |
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Great line on Leno, about the kids...
"He [the judge] said he was worried about what people would think about the mixed-race kids. Yeah, when they grow up to become President, or win the Masters, or get an Oscar..."
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I am RICHARD, Chief Warlock of the Brothers of Darkness, Lord of the Thirteen Hells, Master of the Bones, Emperor of the Black, Lord of the Undead, and Mayor of a little village up the coast. Very scenic during springtime. |
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Wombat
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 08, 2006
Posts: 629
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| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:23 am Post subject: Re: Hammond justice refuses to marry an interracial couple |
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| dossa wrote: |
NEW ORLEANS – A white Louisiana justice of the peace said he refused to issue a marriage license to an interracial couple out of concern for any children the couple might have. |
I didn't know a JP could issue a marriage LICENSE in the first place.
Did he refuse to perform a marriage ceremony?
If so then he is within his right to do that.
A Catholic Priest can perform a marriage ceremony but he doesn't HAVE to. If the couple are divorced or non-catholic or gay or whatever then he can refuse to perform the ceremony. Someone else can do it but he is not obliged to do so if he doesn't want to. |
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gina-ghettoprincess
Last of my kind
Joined: Nov 09, 2008
Posts: 2702
Location: The Town That Time Forgot (UK)
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| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:32 am Post subject: Re: Hammond justice refuses to marry an interracial couple |
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| Quote: | | Consider the case of a fourteen year old girl marrying a fifty year old man, may a Justice refuse on personal reasons? |
But that's actually illegal.
| Apple_in_my_Eye wrote: | | dossa wrote: |
"I'm not a racist. I just don't believe in mixing the races that way," Bardwell told the Associated Press on Thursday. "I have piles and piles of black friends. They come to my home, I marry them, they use my bathroom. I treat them just like everyone else." |
WTF?
You might be a racist if... it even occurs to you that bathroom use has a racial consideration to it.
Ok, maybe I'm naiive -- maybe where he lives the racial-bathroom issue is on a lot of people's minds. But it still seems weird. |
My thoughts exactly.
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Inventor
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 16, 2007
Posts: 3541
Location: New Orleans
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| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: Hammond justice refuses to marry an interracial couple |
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| gina-ghettoprincess wrote: | | Quote: | | Consider the case of a fourteen year old girl marrying a fifty year old man, may a Justice refuse on personal reasons? |
But that's actually illegal. |
Not in Alabama.
While the law does give a Justice of the Peace the right to marry people, it is not an obligation of the Office. They may perform, none, some, or any.
It is the same as a Lawyer, they may or may not take any case.
Churchs will often refuse to marry people who are not both of their faith.
No one has said they cannot marry, but since a large part of the local population does marry within their own degree of color, it is nothing more than a business issue, the loss of potential future business.
It is the same for a Lawyer, taking an unpopular case that will alienate the public, or the local rich and powerful, would end their career.
Once the Church controlled marriage, so it was refused to non members, the damned.
Civil Marriage changed that. This right was granted to a Justice of the Peace. Marriage outside of church rules. A Right but not an obligation. They must follow the law, age, martial status, degree of blood relation. That part is certified by a Clerk of Court who issues a marrage license.
The third class that may perform marriages are Judges, Legal Marriage.
She is fourteen, he is sixteen, they are neighbors, the baby is due in six months, both their parents come to court. They can be Emancipated, given adult rights, and then married by a Judge.
Some would have a law that puts him in jail, have the baby born out of marrage, cause problems between neighbors and grandparents, and then all three burn in hell for all eturnity.
The Law is not an absolute, it is a guide to human behavior.
She is going for a Degree in Race Politics, and seems to have shopped for the one person she could exploit for a press release.
My view is he will get re-elected. |
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Douglas_MacNeill
Phoenix
Joined: May 11, 2007
Age: 45
Posts: 741
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| ViperaAspis wrote: | | Quote: | | This is a tempest in a teapot. This man did not prevent the couple from getting married. He in no way barred them from exercising their rights. He simply said that HE PERSONALLY would not perform the ceremony because of his own personally held beliefs about the long term effects on society. |
If I might address this: I think the trouble with his logic is simply that it can lead to full discrimination. Consider the rather innocent-sounding statement below.
"The couple can go to another J.O.P. I just don't want to marry them, that's all."
Each Justice they go to tells them, "Well, kids, I don't care if you get married, but, you know, I'M not going to do it. Try down the road". Eventually they try every J.O.P. in the county. Nobody will marry them, but nobody minds if they are married. Although they have been denied the right of marriage because of their race, but nobody is overtly racist and nobody is telling them they can't be married. It's just an innocent personal choice held by every Justice they go to which is effectively discriminatory.
Does this help make it more clear why we cannot allow this kind of behavior? If one can do it, all can do it and while I grant you that it is likely that all will NOT do it, it leaves the groundwork in place for de facto discrimination. |
A well-raised point, ViperaAspis.
As I said before, this kind of crapola is what
Loving vs. Virginia is meant to stop. |
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sartresue
Radical Aspergian
Joined: Dec 19, 2007
Posts: 4614
Location: The Castle of Shock and Awe-tism
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Inventor wrote: | A Justice is a very minor Judge, any Judge my remove himself if for any reason if he feels that he cannot perform in the case at hand.
X is a member of my church, I know some member of the family, are valid reasons.
It sounds like they went shopping for trouble, another reason for a Judge to excuse himself.
So she is going for a Degree in race politics, and is trying to make a name. (my bold)
Consider the case of a fourteen year old girl marrying a fifty year old man, may a Justice refuse on personal reasons?
May perform, and has to perform in all cases, are very different things.
What about a Minister who refuses to perform a wedding?
As one of the three classes of people who legally can, is he obligated to in all cases?
No one denied the right of marriage, they have many other choices.
Now if a Clerk of Court refused to issue a Marriage License, they would have a case. |
All things being equal topic
This is a tough one. Both sides make interesting arguments here. But an adult cannot make decisions for another adult, based on his own experiences, when the law states otherwise. (As for such a marriage not succeeding, does this judge get brownie points for each marriage that does not end in divorce after a specified time? Marriages often end because of other factors, and I have a suspicion the learned judge in this case knows this.)
In addition, skewed ages and different skin hues are not comparable issues, or logically synonymous. (Two such age disparate people who want to get hitched had better come up with more than one explanation that makes sense.)
In Canada, the marrying of different ethnic (including "race") groups is not an issue. The skewed age thing would be suspect, due to the imbalance of experience/judgment of the 14 year old vis-a-vis the 50 year old.
Making a name? What this woman is doing is nothing new or exciting. 
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Radical Aspergian
Awe-Tistic Whirlwind
Phuture Phounder of the Philosophy Phactory |
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hartzofspace
Red Dragon
Joined: Apr 15, 2005
Posts: 4855
Location: In the Fortress Of Solitude
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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Perhaps this Justice ought to to be sent out to pasture, along with all the other dinosaurs. He is way behind the times! 
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Inventor
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 16, 2007
Posts: 3541
Location: New Orleans
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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In later CNN news hype, "He has refused to give them a Marraige License", but another Justice did and married them.
They should hire people who can read, who know common law. The only person who can issue a marriage license, here and I think everywhere, is The Clerk of Court. They are the only people with the records showing that they are not close kin, and are single enough to marry.
What next, he refused to issue a Birth Certificate, barrring them from having children? |
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ruveyn
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 73
Posts: 4795
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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This J.P. clearly exceeded his authority when he would not issue the license. If the two people showed they were old enough to be married, did not have a venarial disease and were not closely related contrary to state law, then he was required to issue the license.
Now if he had merely refused to perform the marriage ritual that would be another thing entirely. The J.P. is an officer of the law and is required to execute state law, while he holds the office. His personal feelings in this regard are irrelevant. He was required to issue the license if all the legally required conditions were met.
He should be canned forthwith.
ruveyn |
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phil777
Phoenix
Joined: May 21, 2008
Age: 23
Posts: 2207
Location: Montreal, Québec
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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Now, here is an amusing little site i found while doing research on ghettos and their causes. You can browse through a few cities and i reckon that the data is "fairly" recent, like 2000. I doubt it has changed drastically in the recent years...Er i forgot about hurricane Katrina, my bad.... This map may not be as relevant but it's still interesting.
http://www.umich.edu/~lawrace/citymaps.htm/neworleans.htm |
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