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ruveyn
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 73
Posts: 4795
Location: New Jersey
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 Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Eggman wrote: | | ruveyn wrote: | | Eggman wrote: | | What about entropy? |
The second law of thermodynamics applies to closed thermodynamic systems. The Earth is wide open, receiving energy from the Sun at every instant. The Sun is good for another five billion years. That is why evolution (which is anti-entropic) is possible. It is energized by sunlight.
ruveyn |
Sun...limited life span...besides open can juist be a really big closed..It said limitless. Allways be technically correct, the best type of correct. |
The sun is good for another five billion years. Far longer than our species will survive. From our point of view, it is forever.
ruveyn |
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0_equals_true
Genuine Charlatan
Joined: Apr 06, 2007
Age: 27
Posts: 7000
Location: London
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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Energy is all around us, the problem is harnessing it. Easier said than done.
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Eggman
das Freak'n Techno Viking!
Joined: Jul 18, 2008
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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5 billion years is not forever, Be technically correct, the best kind of correct
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pakled
"Bless his Heart"
Joined: Nov 13, 2007
Age: 52
Posts: 6741
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:28 am Post subject: |
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All systems are closed systems; the only variable is scale - 1st law of Ecology...
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Inventor
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 16, 2007
Posts: 3541
Location: New Orleans
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:29 am Post subject: |
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Forever for a species is about 5,000,000 years, and guess who is that old?
It is normal for a species to become very common, the largest numbers, just before they vanish.
A hundred years from now it will not matter. 2050 is the time to watch, when overpopulation hits declining resources. Energy could help, or perhaps prolong, but a shortage of top soil, fresh water, will be more pressing issues.
A growing population has a birth rate that exceeds death rate. Living longer magnifys that.
When a peak population is reached, the death rate increases, but the population still grows. This leads to an increasing death rate, shorter lives, and still a populaton increase. The rate of resource decline increases, and a 10% shortage of water and food can grow to a 50% death rate, and after a few years, that become serious.
This mathematical model plays out from 2040 to 2050.
The correct answer is the one that is closest to you.
The Dinosaurs did not die out, they became rats and chickens, after the crash comes new species developed from the survivors.
The same principal works in taxation. A few percent works in a growing economy, which drives the economy higher by building roads, bridges, ports, but as it nears total use, the tax rate has to go up because growth stops. As decline sets in from decline, plus higher taxes, taxes have to rise.
At the same 50% economic death, taxes, the economy fails. Every economy that has taxed more than a third has quickly fallen, and we are past that point. While it seems to take a long time to get there, the tipping point is instant, and not reversable.
At the end those in power try to become rich. Oil goes to $150, ten times what it was when Bush took office, which stalls out other parts of the economy which leads to Wall Street bailouts, governments making banks rich, which causes business to fail, leaving those assets worth a lot less, less than their debt, and it all fails.
Without money government has no power to do anything. We have no food reserves, so an economic collapse causes crops to not get planted, harvested, or sent to market, for there is not a market.
The world will never run out of energy, just human intelligence. |
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ruveyn
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 73
Posts: 4795
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| pakled wrote: | | All systems are closed systems; the only variable is scale - 1st law of Ecology... |
Nonsense! The earth is thermodynamically open. Energy enters the Earth at every instant. The sum total of energy on Earth is NOT constant.
There is no Law of Ecology that has any physical basis. Such a notion is ecological quasi religious crapdoodle put forth by the Giaia huggers.
ruveyn |
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pakled
"Bless his Heart"
Joined: Nov 13, 2007
Age: 52
Posts: 6741
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:27 am Post subject: |
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Note- once again, this is the 'political' law... I know there's infinite energy, but everywhere I've seen this thinking in action, it's been pushed to indicate that 'whatever it is, we're running out of it'...
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Eggman
das Freak'n Techno Viking!
Joined: Jul 18, 2008
Posts: 3582
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Inventor wrote: | Forever for a species is about 5,000,000 years, and guess who is that old?
It is normal for a species to become very common, the largest numbers, just before they vanish.
A hundred years from now it will not matter. 2050 is the time to watch, when overpopulation hits declining resources. Energy could help, or perhaps prolong, but a shortage of top soil, fresh water, will be more pressing issues.
A growing population has a birth rate that exceeds death rate. Living longer magnifys that.
When a peak population is reached, the death rate increases, but the population still grows. This leads to an increasing death rate, shorter lives, and still a populaton increase. The rate of resource decline increases, and a 10% shortage of water and food can grow to a 50% death rate, and after a few years, that become serious.
This mathematical model plays out from 2040 to 2050.
The correct answer is the one that is closest to you.
The Dinosaurs did not die out, they became rats and chickens, after the crash comes new species developed from the survivors.
The same principal works in taxation. A few percent works in a growing economy, which drives the economy higher by building roads, bridges, ports, but as it nears total use, the tax rate has to go up because growth stops. As decline sets in from decline, plus higher taxes, taxes have to rise.
At the same 50% economic death, taxes, the economy fails. Every economy that has taxed more than a third has quickly fallen, and we are past that point. While it seems to take a long time to get there, the tipping point is instant, and not reversable.
At the end those in power try to become rich. Oil goes to $150, ten times what it was when Bush took office, which stalls out other parts of the economy which leads to Wall Street bailouts, governments making banks rich, which causes business to fail, leaving those assets worth a lot less, less than their debt, and it all fails.
Without money government has no power to do anything. We have no food reserves, so an economic collapse causes crops to not get planted, harvested, or sent to market, for there is not a market.
The world will never run out of energy, just human intelligence. |
Sorry but forever..is forever. Period. 5 billion years is not forever, no matter how manytimes you say uit is. Epic Pwn!
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ruveyn
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 73
Posts: 4795
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Eggman wrote: |
Sorry but forever..is forever. Period. 5 billion years is not forever, no matter how manytimes you say uit is. Epic Pwn! |
There is no forever. In a finite (but large) time interval the universe will be cold and dead, with all free energy dissipated.
ruveyn |
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Venger
Deinonychus
Joined: Apr 16, 2008
Posts: 395
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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Some estimates say that super massive black holes could last around a Googol years which is: 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.
That sounds like basically forever. |
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Eggman
das Freak'n Techno Viking!
Joined: Jul 18, 2008
Posts: 3582
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| ruveyn wrote: | | Eggman wrote: |
Sorry but forever..is forever. Period. 5 billion years is not forever, no matter how manytimes you say uit is. Epic Pwn! |
There is no forever. In a finite (but large) time interval the universe will be cold and dead, with all free energy dissipated.
ruveyn |
Thus proving my point.
An eccelent example of self pwning
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Eggman
das Freak'n Techno Viking!
Joined: Jul 18, 2008
Posts: 3582
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Venger wrote: | Some estimates say that super massive black holes could last around a Googol years which is: 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.
That sounds like basically forever. |
not quite
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Venger
Deinonychus
Joined: Apr 16, 2008
Posts: 395
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| I said that sounds like basically forever. Of course that doesn't mean literally forever. |
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jrknothead
News Junkie
Joined: Aug 04, 2007
Age: 43
Posts: 1440
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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Anything that will last farther than the duration of my lifetime, will last forever as far as I'm concerned... the end of the world will not be my problem, so why should I waste time contemplating it? Ditto for anything that happens after I die...
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Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -François Marie Arouet |
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Eggman
das Freak'n Techno Viking!
Joined: Jul 18, 2008
Posts: 3582
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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But of course words have meanings, not what we want them to be, so forever mis its meaning, No matter what it is to you. Be technically correct, the best kind of correct
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