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Nym
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Nov 06, 2009
Age: 19
Posts: 30
Location: Leeds, UK
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 Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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My routine: 300calorie meal every 3 hours, sticking to a daily macronutrient ratio of about 55/30/15 whenever possible and doing 45minutes on a stationary exercise bike each day - I plan on increasing the meal size slightly once I reach a weight I like.
It might not work for others but it's definetly worked for me, I've cut down from 238lb to 180lb in a little under three months and I haven't deviated from the routine once to skip exercise or have a snack - eating regularly like this completely suppresses hunger.
Maybe it's only worked for me because I've become somewhat obsessed with it, making spreadsheets to calculate the daily macronutrient percentages etc... |
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Sparrowrose
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Oct 12, 2009
Age: 42
Posts: 73
Location: Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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And for those who like to have spreadsheets and/or graphs but don't know how to program them themselves, my three favorites are:
Fitday
pros: free, online so you can use it from anywhere
cons: online so it is slower
http://www.fitday.com
Hacker's Guide to Weight Loss
pros: free, excel spreadsheets are quicker but you will have to research much of your own data to get started, the accompanying book explains dieting from an engineer's perspective which can be a helpful perspective for some Aspies
cons: limited functionality, no ongoing support
http://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/www/hackdiet.html
(to get to excel spreadsheets, click contents -> (scroll down) -> computer tools)
Dietpower
pros: very fast and easy to use. beautiful graphs. great tech support
cons: not free. (But you can try it for free for two weeks to see if you like it)
http://www.dietpower.com/
Sparrow
_________________
"In the end, we decide if we're remembered for what happened to us or for what we did with it."
-- Randy K. Milholland |
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ouinon
chemical reaction
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 5340
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| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:51 am Post subject: |
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| Sparrowrose wrote: | | What finally worked for me was actually a *high* carb diet . . . but high in particular types of carbs, mainly fresh, raw, ripe fruit. The more fresh fruit (and low to very low fat) I ate, the better my diabetes got. I have to avoid grains entirely and all animal products as my joints start hurting if I start eating meat or dairy. |
Wondering whether you might be/are able to eat grass-fed ( rather than grain-fed ) meat? ( lamb, free-range duck, grass-fed beef, etc ), and fish?
And I read recently that one reason people with diabetes, and some other auto-immune system diseases, often don't tolerate meat is because of the damage done to the pancreas, ( incl. bile salts production, etc ) by diabetic and/or other autoimmune-system reactions, and that it is their digestion of fats which has been compromised and needs healing. St John's Wort bitters, and coconut oil among other things, are supposed to help restore fat digestion.
And also wondering how long you have been on an almost exclusively fruit and dairy/yoghurt diet? Or do you eat eggs, nuts and seeds, aswell? And what about carrots, potatoes, similarly carbo-rich veg?
PS. One reason that your diabetes may have got so much better, despite all the fruit, ( apart from the fact that because it is half fructose it is half dealt with by the liver rather than entirely by the pancreas which could perhaps be a relief to the pancreas ), is probably because you have eliminated one of the most frequently and profoundly allergenic foods; gluten, which studies are increasingly showing causes autoimmune-system damage to many different organs, including the pancreas, thyroid, etc.
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Sparrowrose
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Oct 12, 2009
Age: 42
Posts: 73
Location: Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| ouinon wrote: |
Wondering whether you might be/are able to eat grass-fed ( rather than grain-fed ) meat? ( lamb, free-range duck, grass-fed beef, etc ), and fish? |
When the day comes that I can afford $17/pound meat, I'll consider finding out (even though I grew up vegetarian and have always found meat kind of icky. But I have eaten it because I have spent so much of my adult life very poor and it's foolish to turn down food when one doesn't have money to buy other food.)
| Quote: | | And I read recently that one reason people with diabetes, and some other auto-immune system diseases, often don't tolerate meat is because of the damage done to the pancreas, ( incl. bile salts production, etc ) by diabetic and/or other autoimmune-system reactions, |
Type 1 diabetes is an auto-immune disorder. Type 2 diabetes (which is what I had) is not. I do wish the disorders had different names because it gets difficult to separate the two out when doing research and so I have had to wade through a lot of medical journal articles that aren't about me in order to get to the information I needed.
| Quote: | | and that it is their digestion of fats which has been compromised and needs healing. St John's Wort bitters, and coconut oil among other things, are supposed to help restore fat digestion. |
Type 2 diabetes is not about fat digestion. It's about fat accumulating in the cells and blocking the insulin receptors. When the insulin cannot get into the cells, the cells are starved for energy and the "food" (sugars) stay in the blood, causing various types of damage.
| Quote: | | And also wondering how long you have been on an almost exclusively fruit and dairy/yoghurt diet? |
That's not what I eat. No dairy. No yoghurt. Lots of vegetables, not almost exclusively fruit. But lots of fruit, compared to the average person who might eat one piece per day. I get at least 5 servings of fruit per day, 10-15 when I can afford it.
| Quote: | | Or do you eat eggs, nuts and seeds, aswell? |
No. Those foods would continue to clog my cells with fat and block the insulin. I'm clearing the intracellular fats out and those foods are all very high in fat. I do sometimes have some ground flax seeds but no more than 2 tablespoons.
| Quote: | | And what about carrots, potatoes, similarly carbo-rich veg? |
I eat carrots. Potatoes are not safe to eat raw.
| Quote: | | PS. One reason that your diabetes may have got so much better, despite all the fruit, |
To understand my perspective on how the food I have chosen has healed my diabetes, read "80/10/10" by Dr. Douglas Graham.
| Quote: | | is probably because you have eliminated one of the most frequently and profoundly allergenic foods; gluten, which studies are increasingly showing causes autoimmune-system damage to many different organs, including the pancreas, thyroid, etc. |
Type 2 diabetes is not a disease of the pancreas and it is not an autoimmune disorder.
Sparrow
_________________
"In the end, we decide if we're remembered for what happened to us or for what we did with it."
-- Randy K. Milholland |
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ouinon
chemical reaction
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 5340
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| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Sparrowrose wrote: | | ouinon wrote: | | I read recently that one reason people with diabetes, and some other auto-immune system diseases, often don't tolerate meat is because of the damage done to the pancreas, ( incl. bile salts production, etc ) by diabetic and/or other autoimmune-system reactions, |
Type 1 diabetes is an auto-immune disorder. Type 2 diabetes (which is what I had) is not. I do wish the disorders had different names because it gets difficult to separate the two out when doing research and so I have had to wade through a lot of medical journal articles that aren't about me in order to get to the information I needed.
Type 2 diabetes is not about fat digestion. It's about fat accumulating in the cells and blocking the insulin receptors. When the insulin cannot get into the cells, the cells are starved for energy and the "food" (sugars) stay in the blood, causing various types of damage.
No [ to eggs, nuts and seeds ]. Those foods would continue to clog my cells with fat and block the insulin. I'm clearing the intracellular fats out and those foods are all very high in fat. I do sometimes have some ground flax seeds but no more than 2 tablespoons.
Type 2 diabetes is not a disease of the pancreas and it is not an autoimmune disorder.
To understand my perspective on how the food I have chosen has healed my diabetes, read "80/10/10" by Dr. Douglas Graham. |
Thanks for the precision/correction. Because I've been reading so much about autoimmune system disorders I was fixating on diabetes Type I without realising it ( forgetting about Type II ).
Thanks for the ref ( "80/10/10" ); will go look at it. 
Where do you get protein from? And zinc? And tryptophan? B12 And other essential non-plant vits/mins etc?
White fish/prawns/oysters? They are good low-fat sources of zinc and so on.
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ouinon
chemical reaction
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 5340
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| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| ouinon wrote: | | Thanks for the ref ( "80/10/10" ); will go look at it. |
 That is so funny. I just looked it up and it turns out to belong to the "Natural Hygiene" movement that I have just been warning people against on another thread! 
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ouinon
chemical reaction
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 5340
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| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Sparrowrose wrote: | | I grew up vegetarian and have always found meat kind of icky. But I have eaten it because I have spent so much of my adult life very poor and it's foolish to turn down food when one doesn't have money to buy other food. |
You're not actually allergic to meat then? ( just intolerant of/unable to handle fat, ... now )?
According to critics of vegetarian/vegan/fruitarian diets it is possible that this lifelong absence of meat from your diet may well have contributed to your current health problems. 
What kind of vegetarianism was it? Lacto, fish, vegan? Where did you get vitamin B12 from? Zinc? Saturated fats necessary for good fat digestion and absorption, etc etc etc? I wonder how many people brought up vegetarian have these sort of health problems after a certain point.
Do figures exist on the incidence of various illnesses among lifelong vegetarians/vegans? I seem to remember that some do, somewhere ... showing that longterm vegetarians experience more ... will look it up. 
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Sparrowrose
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Oct 12, 2009
Age: 42
Posts: 73
Location: Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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I keep forgetting: once I start talking about what I eat, things never go well. I apologize. Please carry on without me. Best wishes to all in this thread.
_________________
"In the end, we decide if we're remembered for what happened to us or for what we did with it."
-- Randy K. Milholland |
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ouinon
chemical reaction
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 5340
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| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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Edit: Just seen your last post. I'm sorry you feel like that. I was finding the challenge to my ideas quite interesting; it was spurring me on to find out more about the subject.
Just responding to your remark, Sparrowrose, about diabetes II not being about fat digestion: I've just realised another reason why I confounded/spoke about the two diabetes as if they were one ( and only actually described Type I ); it's because I knew Diabetes II had something to do with fats, but had forgotten what kind and in what way:
http://www.brighthub.com/health/diet-nutrition/articles/21562.aspx
| Quote: | Diabetes: An Essential Fatty Acid Deficient Condition
Diabetes is one of the many diseases that is caused by an essential fatty acid deficiency. Find out the difference between type I and type II diabetes, and what cell membranes have to do with this condition.
Ninety percent of diabetes cases are not of type I, rather, they are of type II diabetes. Type II Diabetes, it turns out, is a disease caused by compromised cellular membranes. Omega-3 fatty acid deficiencies in the body's cell membranes and the resultant loss in fluidity of the membranes is related to "insulin resistance" of cells.
This is the defining characteristic or type II diabetes which is usually seen only in middle-aged or older people. In type II diabetes the body produces insulin, but the insulin receptors on the cells do not work properly.
As a result, high levels of blood sugar and insulin will be observed simultaneously in the blood steam of persons with this disease.
Omega 3 Oils and Diabetes
Since diabetes II is arising from an essential fatty acid deficiency, it is not surprising that a very large proportion of Americans are showing symptoms which portend the advent of this disease. Persons who could already be described as being " insulin resistant" account for fifty percent of the population in United States.
What people are at the most risk of getting diabetes? Virtually every one who is overweight and who suffers from high blood pressure. These people are all also insulin resistant. These remarkable statistics could be substantially improved simply changing the essential fatty acid status of these people - something that is not at all difficult to do.
This pre-type II diabetes condition is called "Syndrome X". If you have received the syndrome x diagnosis you will probably notice that you are unusually thirsty.
The high levels of sugar in your blood stream in effect create a situation of dehydration as far as your cells are concerned. If you respond to your thirst by drinking sweetened beverages your blood sugar will rise farther. You will have to urinate more frequently, and yet you will feel even thirstier.
Meanwhile, your cells will not be able to take in the sugar, since their insulin receptors are not working. You will feel like you are suffering the sugar blues, while your pancreas is going through a major panic, trying to get the message out to the cells to "get that sugar put away!".
You will likely feel apathetic, you might feel tingling or burning in your hands or feet and you may also experience reduced resistance to infections.
The tingling or burning in your hands and feet what you feel if you are experiencing diabetic neuropathology. Researchers have now shown this to be caused by the fatty-acid breakdown of the nerve cells.
How Omega-3's Can Reverse Type II Insulin Resistance
Insulin resistant cells are really just insulin-non-responsive cells. They aren't actually actively resisting insulin, they are simply not responding to insulin. What researchers have noticed is that the less fluid a cell membrane is, the less responsive it is to insulin. Fluid cell membranes have lots of omega-3 fatty acids in their structure. Stiff cell membranes do not.
The good news is that simply by increasing your omega-3 intake you will be able to correct insulin resistance in your own case. Studies have shown that the frequent consumption of small amounts of omega-3 oils is all that is need to prevent insulin resistance.
And, even when insulin resistance develops in a person who's diet is high in saturated fats and omega-6 oils, but low in omega-3 oils, reversal of the condition requires only that omega-3 intake be increased. Insulin resistance can be reversed in such a case even with no decrease in saturated fat levels.
Other points to pay attention to would be:
Consume lots of green leafy vegetables
Consume lots of ocean fish
Use flax seed oil (one or two tbsp a day is the recommended dose, use it on toast, or on salad, or steamed vegetables)
Use only Olive oil and butter and coconut oil in cooking
One interesting and beneficial side effect of this regime is that if you are overweight, you are very likely to lose weight, and if you have high blood pressure, it will be improved. |
Just bolded the last line of that quote, because it is relevant to this thread topic!
The average vegetarian diet in the west has been high in Omega 6's from veg oils, ( and low in Omega 3's ). The trouble is that Omega 6 competes with Omega 3 for the next stage of the metabolic processs, and if there are too many Omega 6's the processes relying on Omega 3 will be disrupted, including those of insulin reception ( cell response to insulin ).
Even the average non-vegetarian diet has become increasingly poor in Omega 3's and high in Omega 6's, because not only have people been scared off using butter and fat meats by the anti-cholesterol movement, but the fat ( both on the meat and in the milk ), from animals which have been corn/grain fed is lower in Omega 3's than grass-fed animals.
| Wiki wrote: | The most widely available source of EPA and DHA is cold water oily fish such as salmon, herring, mackerel, anchovies and sardines. Oils from these fish have a profile of around seven times as much n−3 [ Omega 3 ] as n−6. Other oily fish such as tuna also contain n−3 in somewhat lesser amounts.
Botanical sources
Flax seeds produce linseed oil, which has a very high n−3 content
Six times richer than most fish oils in n−3,[88] flax (or linseed)
Eggs produced by chickens fed a diet of greens and insects produce higher levels of n−3 fatty acids (mostly ALA) than chickens fed corn or soybeans.
The n−6 to n−3 ratio of grass-fed beef is about 2:1, making it a more useful source of n−3 than grain-fed beef, which usually has a ratio of 4:1.[96]
In most countries, commercially available lamb is typically grass-fed, and thus higher in n−3 than other grain-fed or grain-finished meat sources.
Other sources
Milk and cheese from grass-fed cows may also be good sources of n−3.
Studies suggest that the evolutionary human diet, rich in game animals, seafood and other sources of n−3, may have provided such a ratio. |
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lennyk
Butterfly
Joined: Aug 13, 2009
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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the best approach to losing weight/diabetes etc is to try and get aerobically cardio fit.
When you are fit aerobically your body will tend to use oxygen and water as primary fuel sources, a consequence of this is your body won't rely too much on glycogen, blood sugar for fuel so your blood sugar will tend to stabilize and not bounce all over the place.
I happen to be a cyclist and when fit you don't feel overwhelmed or have hunger urges after hard exercise. it is quite common for fit cyclists to ride hard for hours on only water,
no need for gatorade of any of those sugar drinks.
Another good consequence of this also is that you can actually eat less and not feel hungry due to blood sugar drop. So you can eat less at night and lose weight dramatically.
I would suggest joining a gym and learning how to use the fancy exercise bikes there.
You can monitor your heart rate, check calories burned and adjust intensity and know that you are actually getting fitter etc.
The good thing about bikes too is that your legs and joints wont hurt like running so you wont leave hurting. |
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Grisha
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Oct 16, 2009
Age: 43
Posts: 72
Location: Orange County, California
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Nym wrote: | My routine: 300calorie meal every 3 hours, sticking to a daily macronutrient ratio of about 55/30/15 whenever possible and doing 45minutes on a stationary exercise bike each day - I plan on increasing the meal size slightly once I reach a weight I like.
It might not work for others but it's definetly worked for me, I've cut down from 238lb to 180lb in a little under three months and I haven't deviated from the routine once to skip exercise or have a snack - eating regularly like this completely suppresses hunger.
Maybe it's only worked for me because I've become somewhat obsessed with it, making spreadsheets to calculate the daily macronutrient percentages etc... |
That's quite similar to the regime I'm on (spreadsheets included) and I was hoping you would share your experience.
A couple questions:
1. How did you decide on that macronutrient ratio? Also, are you referring to P/C/F or something else. There seems to be some variability in how this is expressed
2. What specifically did you eat to achieve it?
Thanks! |
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Nym
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Nov 06, 2009
Age: 19
Posts: 30
Location: Leeds, UK
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Grisha wrote: |
That's quite similar to the regime I'm on (spreadsheets included) and I was hoping you would share your experience.
A couple questions:
1. How did you decide on that macronutrient ratio? Also, are you referring to P/C/F or something else. There seems to be some variability in how this is expressed
2. What specifically did you eat to achieve it?
Thanks! |
Oh sorry, I put the ratio in from highest to lowest and assumed people would know which was which, I totally forgot about the low carb fanatics etc, C/P/F. I decided on that ratio just from some general reading on the subject and it seemed to fit in easily to my favorite foods anyway 
I'm a *gasp* veggie so I usually eat different combinations of oatmeal, veggie sausage, potato, rice, pasta, veggie quorn fillets, broccolli, beans, low fat cheese and a couple other things I can't think of right now. |
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ouinon
chemical reaction
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 5340
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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Just found an interesting article about how fructose encourages the laying down of fat, ( ie. obesity ), and contributes to Diabetes type II development. Fructose is present in corn syrup, cereals, ( esp wheat ), and in fruit, ( esp raisins, figs, apples and pears ).
http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/goodbye-fructose.html
| Quote: | A carefully-conducted study by a collaborative research group at University of California-Berkeley has finally closed the lid on the fuss over fructose vs. glucose and its purported adverse effects.
Compared to glucose, fructose induced:
1) Four-fold greater intra-abdominal fat accumulation--3% increased intra-abdominal fat with glucose; 14.4% with fructose. (Intraabdominal fat is the variety that blocks insulin responses and causes diabetes and inflammation.)
2) 13.9% increase in LDL cholesterol but doubled Apoprotein B (an index of the number of LDL particles, similar to NMR LDL particle number).
3) 44.9% increase in small LDL, compared to 13.3% with glucose.
4) While glucose (curiously) reduced the net postprandial (after-eating) triglyceride response (area under the curve, AUC), fructose increased postprandial triglycerides 99.2%.
The authors propose that fructose specifically increases liver VLDL production, the lipoprotein particle that yields abnormal after-eating particles, increased LDL, and provides building blocks to manufacture small LDL particles. The authors also persuasively propose that fructose metabolism, unlike glucose, is not inhibited (via feedback loop) by energy intake, i.e., it's as if you are always starving.
Add to this the data that show that fructose increases uric acid (that causes gout and may act as a coronary risk factor), induces leptin resistance, causes metabolic syndrome (pre-diabetes), and increases appetite, and it is clear that fructose is yet another common food additive that, along with wheat, is likely a big part of the reason Americans are fat and diabetic.
Fructose is concentrated, of course, in high-fructose corn syrup, comprising anywhere from 42-90% of total weight. Fructose also composes 50% of sucrose (table sugar). Fructose also figures prominently in many fruits; among the worst culprits are raisins (30% fructose) and honey (41% fructose).
Also, beware of low-fat or non-fat salad dressings (rich with high-fructose corn syrup), ketchup, beer, fruit drinks, fruit juices, all of which are rich sources of this exceptionally fattening, metabolism-bypassing, LDL cholesterol/small LDL/ApoB increasing compound. Ironically, this means that many low-fat foods meant to reduce cholesterol actually increase it when they contain fructose in any form. |
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