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hyperion
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 507
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 Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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Reagan did not go far enough, he went for freidman when he should gone full austrian.
its centralized banking thats the problem(something conservatives used shout alot about)
its steals from everyone.
how so
the taxepayer pays 100 to the central bank to print 100,000 wich is loaned back to the government at
interest, rather than by the treasury debt free backed in gold.
this glut of fake money allows politicians to be bought corporations to not innovate, and the people all
around the world to be impovered with debt.
the opposing central banks steal from each other and everyone else by borrowing and then inflated out the debt
wrecking econmies world wide
thatcher chose the wrong theory. anyone who has a good handle on economics knows monterism is not free market or even a good theory
supply side is much better austrian better still
centralized banking is a plank of the communist manifesto btw |
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Fuzzy
Ack! Thbbbt!
Joined: Mar 31, 2006
Posts: 2115
Location: Alberta Canada
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 3:17 am Post subject: |
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Rather than say poor=lazy, we might rightfuly say that lazy=poor.
I think, really, what it comes down to is who you know, followed by who you impress.
If you live a life of poverty, you dont have any friends that can give you a good job. If you are middle class, you tend to stay there, because the people you socialize with are also middle class. Thats how those rich kids get million dollar jobs; they have connections.
Secondly, who you impress seems to go a long way to settling you socially and financially in life. If you are attractive/dress nice/act approapriately, you will do ok in life. This is where some of us fail as apers.
Thirdly, and most people fail at it, is money skills. If you live above your means, you or your child will miss oportunities to grow socially. People who grow up poor often get taught poor money skills, and that holds them and future generations back.
I was raised upper middle class, at least. I am reasonably attractive, and clean up real nice, but my social skills are lacking, and I have been marginalized moneywise.
Aside from that, I have owned my own business, which made me good money for little effort. Was/am I lazy? Maybe. It didnt take much effort to start my business, and I would still have it if it were not for an ex employer. My employer expected 40 hours of labour per week from me, for the same pay that my business provided in 4 hours(of effort). I quit. Who wouldnt?
Back on track. I am betting those two people that rose above poverty were friendly, outgoing, maybe attractive too? I bet they knew many people, while their parents differed? |
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RobertN
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 31, 2005
Posts: 934
Location: Cambridge, UK
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| Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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Honestly, my post has been removed already!! Its kind of worrying how many aspies support eugenics, especially since we may be the first to go.
I think anyone who believes in eugenics should be made to stand in the street with a placard and prepare to have eggs thrown at them. Its much worse than calling them a ***** isn't it!! |
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RobertN
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 31, 2005
Posts: 934
Location: Cambridge, UK
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| Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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And if I may continue, I have to say that this site has the largest collection of Nazis, Republicans, Fascists, Racists, Eugenists, and Psychopaths than any other site I have visited on the internet. I think it is a shame. This is meant to be a support site for vulnerable people, and it has turned into some right-wing blood gathering.
I also suspect that half the people on this site haven't got Asperger's at all. They say they have Asperger's but in fact they are just twisted misanthropic psychopaths. The real reason why some people on here can't interact with people IRL is not because they have a disability, like I do, but because they are so twisted and derranged and evil, that nobody wants to associate with them. Therefore they come here, claiming they have aspergers, and us real aspies end up being sidelined by them because they are manipulative and have better social skills than we do even though they do not use them in real life.
I know many former moderators on this site (now on different sites) that understand this but were too afraid to stand up to Alex whilst they were here. Therefore, the madness continued, and decent people were forced to leave the site. |
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Awesomelyglorious
Destroyer of worlds, reaver of souls
Joined: Dec 18, 2005
Posts: 6138
Location: United States
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| Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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Aspie support for eugenics would probably come from our cold, rational sides of our personalities. The idea being that certain societal flaws come from genetics due to its relationship to violence and stupidity and other traits both desirable and not so. The idea of eugenics might also be something that aspies might advocate because of a possible love of sci-fi novels.
The belief in eugenics is just that, a belief. If we throw eggs at people because they believe differently than us than we would be a totalitarian dictatorship. If you dislike somebody's belief in something then the best thing to do is to prove their idea wrong. They have the right to hold a belief but that does not mean that you can't try to argue against it. Your arguments could easily be that eugenics would limit the variety of the human experience(including aspies) and you could even expand upon this to show how the effects of certain cultural ideas may get worse and how it could harm human society, that people are naturally malleable and that biology does not determine our strengths perfectly and that many problems are environmental instead of biological(mention the effects of upbringing on IQ and environment on positive and negative traits). If you disagree with something then it is best to try to find the bad logic involved or the bad premises.
Actually, there are worse sites than this.... in fact this site is really not too bad except for the occasional crazy like Vandike. Heck, I once went to a chinesish forum(it had many chinese people but a lot of conversations in english) and there were many people who commented about the inferiority of the "anglo" race and how the chinese were superior and the BS comments of this nature with their skewed facts were incredibly common. All forums have crazies and I really don't consider this forum too bad.
Umm... I don't think there are many deranged and evil people on this site really. The issue may be that more Americans found this forum and America tends towards being very right wing. I know that I have had a diagnosis of Asperger's from a psychologist. I think that the big thing is that you have a different ideology than the new group and are threatened. Honestly, I don't think that this forum has really gone off of the deep end on any ideology, we aren't plotting the communist revolution, nor do we spend all of our time talking about the "stinkin' commies". I dunno, I just tend to think that this forum is really not on any extreme it just might not be as left wing as it used to be.
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Destroying reality since the end of time. |
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RobertN
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 31, 2005
Posts: 934
Location: Cambridge, UK
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| Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| You say that throwing eggs at people who believe in Eugenics amounts to totalitarian society. Well, I am no fan of totalitarian societies but I assure you I would prefer to live in one than live in the genocide society that people like you advocate. |
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Scrapheap
Banned
Joined: Nov 02, 2005
Posts: 1678
Location: Animal Farm
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| Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| RobertN wrote: | And if I may continue, I have to say that this site has the largest collection of Nazis, Republicans, Fascists, Racists, Eugenists, and Psychopaths than any other site I have visited on the internet. I think it is a shame. This is meant to be a support site for vulnerable people, and it has turned into some right-wing blood gathering.
I also suspect that half the people on this site haven't got Asperger's at all. They say they have Asperger's but in fact they are just twisted misanthropic psychopaths. The real reason why some people on here can't interact with people IRL is not because they have a disability, like I do, but because they are so twisted and derranged and evil, that nobody wants to associate with them. Therefore they come here, claiming they have aspergers, and us real aspies end up being sidelined by them because they are manipulative and have better social skills than we do even though they do not use them in real life.
I know many former moderators on this site (now on different sites) that understand this but were too afraid to stand up to Alex whilst they were here. Therefore, the madness continued, and decent people were forced to leave the site. |
The question is, how do we get the Neville Chamberlains (is that how you spell it) of this site to leave too. 
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All hail Comrade Napoleon!!! |
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Fuzzy
Ack! Thbbbt!
Joined: Mar 31, 2006
Posts: 2115
Location: Alberta Canada
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| Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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RobertN, you seem to think that WP should be leftwing/socialist, and you are mad because its not? Too bad.
I dont see WP being either Left or right wing, and I like it that way.
Perception is reality, labels are not. WP is what it is. When a person learns to draw, they must train their minds to draw what they SEE, not what they think they see. Otherwise you get a diagram of icons arranged in rough human proportions, easily recognizable as a face, but not a realistic one. The sort that a 5 year old draws, or an untrained 50 year old.
We are here at WP to discuss, to think, SEE, to learn, and we, as aspergers and autists, resent people slapping labels on us.
You seem to think different thinking people should be forced into conforming through public punishment and censure, through physical endurance of mild torture. What else would egg throwing be? That sounds like typical NT bully behaviour to me!
I am calling you to task: I dont think you are on the autism spectrum! You seek to label everything so you dont have to think, so you dont have to consider that everything/one varies. You feel that people should be forced to conform to public ideals, and that ideas that are wrong are not to be discussed. People are discrete entities, NOT factors in a political idea. Political leanings are only an idea, sir, a label.
No sir, Knowledge is king, and to bury ideas is to let ignorance reign. Let the past, both good and evil be discussed, so we may better understand.
When you only remember rules(dont walk under ladders, its unlucky), but not the reasons why,(something might fall on you!), they become superstition, and of no use to anybody. When these rules are applied to people, we get bigotism, an uglier and more pervasive beast than eugenics. |
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Awesomelyglorious
Destroyer of worlds, reaver of souls
Joined: Dec 18, 2005
Posts: 6138
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 10:07 am Post subject: |
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Well, your assertion of a left-wing totalitarian system is actually a sign that my views on authoritarianism and the left/right wings are quite possibly correct(relates back to another discussion I had). Anyway, RobertN, why must my viewpoint be so ruthlessly quashed or the same for a viewpoint of any other person? If our views are so dangerous then why not do the better thing and disprove our ideas? Nobody wants to follow a person who has ill-conceived notions of society or even reality in general. Also, making good attempts at logical debate increases one's ability to think well, and that is my big excuse for debating things.
I think that a variety of views makes things more interesting. I do try to avoid the stories about people's lives and bad things happening to them because those aren't really areas for debate but the Philosophy, Politics, Religion forum really is the place for debate. It is always good to see how other people think because they may have a point and change your perceptions on things or because they can get you to try harder to defend your ideas and thus create a more solid view of the world.
Anyway, this place is a place for aspies no matter what their political views are. Aspies are not necessarily left-wing. Heck, an aspie who grows up in Texas or somewhere else that is right wing could easily be right wing due to the beliefs of the environment. I met this kid at school who said he was an aspie (though he was self-diagnosed I think), he loves math, he is bad with people, and he is bad at school mostly out of disorganization and forgetfulness and he is one of the most right wing people I know.
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Destroying reality since the end of time. |
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RobertN
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 31, 2005
Posts: 934
Location: Cambridge, UK
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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Fuzzy - I think you are suffering from fuzzy-mindedness.
Allow me to clear your mind.....
Firstly, accusing me of being totalitarian is going to get you nowhere. Of course I believe in free speech, but I do draw a line.
WP is turning into a right-wing cesspool. People who don't believe in the New American Century neocon view of the world are getting bullied off the site (including some former moderators). Now we have some loony who comes up with a list of people he doesn't like and thinks they should be castrated or exterminated. I think this is a little more severe than any bullying tactics you say that I am using. To deny innocent and vulnerable people their freedom and life because they do not fit in with the notions of a right-wing society is worse than denying a bigot their freedom of speech. You are a bigot.
I think public humiliation of Nazis, racists, eugenists and other crettins is a good thing. These people use the Liberal establishment (which fights for freedom of speech) to spread hate against other groups of people. That is not what free speech is about. Free speech is having the ability to stand up for your rights without fear of punishment, not about encouraging the death of other people in the population.
I am all for discussion and debate, but I believe there are a few basics that should be followed - such as knowing right from wrong. In my view, eugenics clearly passes the boundery of what is wrong, and people who encourage it should be subjected to a mild punishment. |
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Awesomelyglorious
Destroyer of worlds, reaver of souls
Joined: Dec 18, 2005
Posts: 6138
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Now we have some loony who comes up with a list of people he doesn't like and thinks they should be castrated or exterminated. |
Wow, that is extreme! 
I still don't think that freedom of speech should be eliminated for even the crazy fringe groups, members may be attacked for personal attacks but still people should be free to express their ideas no matter how crazy. The entire purpose of the liberal idea of free-speech is not to promote liberalism but instead to allow a free flow of thought so that these thoughts can go their natural pathway. The illogical and ridiculous will be tuned out or discredited by the listeners while the good and logical will be allowed to influence people and to influence society for the better. Freedom of speech so long as it is not ridiculous like personal attacks or yelling out "FIRE!" is an important tool for purging society of the back and allowing the good to flow through.
Well, considering that some people are questioning the beliefs of eugenics to be wrong it seems that proper logic must be used to make a point. If you believe that eugenics is wrong then prove it so. Also, if we are to have a moral compass for reality then we need to have something that we can unite behind and that is bound by good logic and facts. We could even create a thread to argue about what morality is and its rules and such.
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Destroying reality since the end of time. |
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Fuzzy
Ack! Thbbbt!
Joined: Mar 31, 2006
Posts: 2115
Location: Alberta Canada
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| RobertN wrote: | Fuzzy - I think you are suffering from fuzzy-mindedness.
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Lovely pun! Thanks! I quite enjoyed that play on words! I shall add it to my collection, with your kind permission! 
| Quote: |
Firstly, accusing me of being totalitarian is going to get you nowhere. |
Oh no! Certainly not. I called you a bully. You advocate behavioral/thought modification through informal public humiliation, rather than punitive measures enacted through codified law and/or chemical therapy. It smacks of lone gunman-ism rather than big brother.
As far as getting me anywhere, I dont want you to leave! On the contrary, we could use more dissenting voices around here, and a heck of a lot more discussion on things besides AS.
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WP is turning into a right-wing cesspool. People who don't believe in the New American Century neocon view of the world are getting bullied off the site (including some former moderators). |
Like I said, WP is what it is! You cannot apply a label to it and then make people conform. I am not neocon myself, I am not even american. Your view points, RobertN, are needed as much as the OPs. The beauty of a forum is that it becomes the sum of its members. Dont complain that its biased; invite some more liberals!
What does it take to get 'bullied' off a site? I fail to see the possibility of Alex holding a gun to the heads of anyones loved ones...
Hurt feelings? One shouldnt be a moderator if their feelings are that tender.
Banning? An unpaid position with responsibilities is not a job, and hence, is not protected by labour laws. Although unionization of forum moderators is an interesting concept, who would pay the union dues? In any case, forums, by their nature, are private property of the person that pays the bills. The rest of us, even the mods, are really just guests.
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Now we have some loony who comes up with a list of people he doesn't like and thinks they should be castrated or exterminated. I think this is a little more severe than any bullying tactics you say that I am using.
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Here we totally agree. Eugenics doesnt make any sense. I appologise, I should have took a stand on that in the beginning. Even mild Eugenics practices on domesticated animals is having a NASTY effect . I shudder to think what it would do to people.
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To deny innocent and vulnerable people their freedom and life because they do not fit in with the notions of a right-wing society is worse than denying a bigot their freedom of speech. You are a bigot.
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To make a play on your own words... To deny uneducated or unintelligent people their freedom of thought because they do not fit in with the notions of a left-wing society is worse than exposing them to rational discussion of the merits of diverse genetic heritage.
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I think public humiliation of Nazis, racists, eugenists and other crettins is a good thing. These people use the Liberal establishment (which fights for freedom of speech) to spread hate against other groups of people. That is not what free speech is about. Free speech is having the ability to stand up for your rights without fear of punishment, not about encouraging the death of other people in the population.
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Thats the rub; once a society achieves such a vehicle for expression, you must share it with everyone, or else it doesnt exist. You get to share it with those whos view points you dont agree with! Indeed, your society might require that you die(conscription), to uphold their right to spout their utter bile.
You got it a little wrong. Free speech is being able to speak your mind while SOCIETY stands up for your right to do so. It is tyranny by the majority, so that the individual may enjoy enhanced freedom. It makes no assumption or distinction about that person having any value. It is not about the individual standing up for themselves, its so they dont have to.
| Quote: |
I am all for discussion and debate, but I believe there are a few basics that should be followed - such as knowing right from wrong. In my view, eugenics clearly passes the boundery of what is wrong, and people who encourage it should be subjected to a mild punishment. |
And thats the problem with your argument; if people are not permitted to discuss wrong things, society cannot teach about them. We must LEARN right from wrong, and that only comes from exposure and knowledge of both sides of the equation. At this point, it is discussion, not action.
You cannot silence aberrant thought without harming mans quest for knowledge. What happened in Rwanda, in Serbia, in all sorts of places, did not go as far as the nazi atrocity because man, as a collective, now know knows the signs of impending genocide, and it is because we havent swept knowledge under the rug; we havent stopped talking about it.
And I hope we never f***ing do. |
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