|
Ragnia
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Mar 10, 2010
Posts: 38
Location: UK
|
 Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:46 am Post subject: No empathy and sad |
 |
|
Hello,
My other half has always said I don't have empahy but I do have sympathy. I never understood what he meant by that. I believed empathy was the ability to feel concerned about someone to want to help (which I do experience), or empathy is to imagine what someone is going through (yes I've felt that way too) and also feeling upset after listening to their sad stories. According to him, no this isn't exactly it!!! He says I haven't got true empathy as he believes I don't put myself in other people's shoes (?)
Now after doing some research, I've understood what empathy really is. It means feeling that person's emotions. The ability to feel what they feel. If my other half feels excited or good, I wouldn't be able to know this unless he says something about it or if he openly starts showing off. Would someone else (who was NT) be able to just know if someone was feeling a particular way? Is empathy another way of picking up someone else's vibe?
Is empathy an instinct?
Knowing that most people can feel empathy and I don't, made me feel really scared. I feel as if I'm not human. It's made me realise exactly why I've had lot of difficulties with socialising, communicating or making friends. Does anyone else feel like this? Can empathy be learned? Can having a lack of it be cured? |
|
| Back to top |
|
spacecadetdave
Raven
Joined: Mar 09, 2010
Age: 46
Posts: 120
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:14 am Post subject: Re: No empathy and sad |
|
|
| Ragnia wrote: | Hello,
My other half has always said I don't have empahy but I do have sympathy. I never understood what he meant by that. I believed empathy was the ability to feel concerned about someone to want to help (which I do experience), or empathy is to imagine what someone is going through (yes I've felt that way too) and also feeling upset after listening to their sad stories. According to him, no this isn't exactly it!!! He says I haven't got true empathy as he believes I don't put myself in other people's shoes (?)
Now after doing some research, I've understood what empathy really is. It means feeling that person's emotions. The ability to feel what they feel. If my other half feels excited or good, I wouldn't be able to know this unless he says something about it or if he openly starts showing off. Would someone else (who was NT) be able to just know if someone was feeling a particular way? Is empathy another way of picking up someone else's vibe?
Is empathy an instinct?
Knowing that most people can feel empathy and I don't, made me feel really scared. I feel as if I'm not human. It's made me realise exactly why I've had lot of difficulties with socialising, communicating or making friends. Does anyone else feel like this? Can empathy be learned? Can having a lack of it be cured? |
Empathy isn't the ability to recognise someone elses emotions. You got it right when you said it is the ability to feel someone elses emotions. If you can tell when someone is excited that is not empathy, it is an observation. I think empathy is an instinct in respect that it is not a concious thing (not for us lot, anyway).
Difficulties socialising? Join the club.
Can empathy be learned? Nah. Can;t talk for the young folk but the older types have a tendancy to learn the observation trick and then project fake empathy where appropriate using learnt responses.
Can having a lack of it be cured? No, I don;t think so. We learn to adjust and to live with it the best we can. See previous answer.
Sorry to not be able to make soothing noises and tell you everything will be OK but I guess I lack the empathy to do so, so I do you the honour of giving you the answers which I think is true. Best of luck in dealing with all this. Live to your strengths - not your weaknesses. |
|
| Back to top |
|
sociable_hermit
Rabbit in the headlights
Joined: Aug 26, 2006
Posts: 1592
Location: Sussex, UK
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
NTs don't automatically have empathy, but they're more likely to empathise. It varies enormously from person to person, so there's not really one standard which can be applied.
From what you've said it sounds as though you are very caring person, and you try your best, so I wouldn't give yourself a guilt trip over it. There are plenty of NTs who make less effort than you do, and have a more negative impact on the world around them.
I don't think it is easy to 'learn' empathy. You can fake it, with practice, but that's rather pointless (or indeed, worse than doing nothing at all).
Ask your boyfriend for some suggestions, if he is being critical. How can I learn empathy? Chances are he won't know, and that in turn might stop him from asking the seemingly impossible.
_________________
The Sociable Hermit says:
Rock'n'Roll... |
|
| Back to top |
|
FredOak3
Sea Gull
Joined: Mar 09, 2010
Posts: 220
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
Oh yea,
My wife is extremely empathetic and of course I'm not. And it was definitely a bone of contention in our relationship.
She would be upset about something and I would feel bad that she was upset (sympathy) but just couldn't connect to a level of how upset she was.
I would try to offer suggestions, solutions, comfort and be told "You just don't get it, how can this not bother you?"
But now that we are both becoming more educated about our Aspie/NT relationship she is beginning to catch herself and realize that I don't get it and tries to be a little more understanding about my ineptitude. |
|
| Back to top |
|
LostAlien
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 04, 2009
Posts: 1577
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I'd say to try not worry about it. You sound like a nice & good person. You don't need to feel the other persons feelings to give comfort to a person who's not feeling well in some way. Sometimes doing something as simple as making a cup of tea helps a person feel better. |
|
| Back to top |
|
MrTeacher
Blue Jay
Joined: Aug 08, 2009
Posts: 94
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Empathy - or having the ability to take someone's else's perspective - is useful in social situations. Why? Because it allows you to predict how the person will react to what you are saying. If you can predict what to say, then you can say things in a way that allows you to persuade the other person's emotions. Also, you can predict what will offend, or turn-off, the other person, thus limiting your chances of social mistakes. Empathy is something that happens before and during a conversation. Pretend you are talking to six year olds, who are naturally dependent on their caregivers and have a general fear of the outside world. You can predict that if you use a scary voice, big words and talk about murderous ravens, then they will be scared and not like you. So instead, you talk in an easy-going voice, over-dramatize and talk about serious situations through play and pretend (stories). The same can be said about every other age group, but it is far more complicated because you have to consider so much and the script is always changing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
spacecadetdave
Raven
Joined: Mar 09, 2010
Age: 46
Posts: 120
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MrTeacher wrote: | | Empathy - or having the ability to take someone's else's perspective - is useful in social situations. Why? Because it allows you to predict how the person will react to what you are saying. If you can predict what to say, then you can say things in a way that allows you to persuade the other person's emotions. Also, you can predict what will offend, or turn-off, the other person, thus limiting your chances of social mistakes. Empathy is something that happens before and during a conversation. Pretend you are talking to six year olds, who are naturally dependent on their caregivers and have a general fear of the outside world. You can predict that if you use a scary voice, big words and talk about murderous ravens, then they will be scared and not like you. So instead, you talk in an easy-going voice, over-dramatize and talk about serious situations through play and pretend (stories). The same can be said about every other age group, but it is far more complicated because you have to consider so much and the script is always changing. |
Murderous Ravens? That bit made me laugh. I'll try not to mention them to my 7 year old when he refuses to go to bed. 
Now I'm chuckling I'm afraid that I will have to post something that was said by one of the great autistic philosiphers of our time:
"Just because I don't care it doesn't mean I don't understand."
Homer J Simpson. |
|
| Back to top |
|
PLA
Captain Prinny
Joined: May 11, 2007
Age: 23
Posts: 2041
Location: Sweden
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MrTeacher wrote: | | murderous ravens |
Crows are murderous. Ravens are unkind.
_________________
I can make a statement true by placing it first in this signature.
"Everyone loves the dolphin. A bitter shark - emerging from it's cold depths - doesn't stand a chance." This is hyperbol.
"Run, Jump, Fall, Limp off, Try Harder." |
|
| Back to top |
|
Willard
Nobody
Joined: Mar 24, 2008
Posts: 4077
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: No empathy and sad |
|
|
| Ragnia wrote: |
My other half has always said I don't have empahy but I do have sympathy. I never understood what he meant by that.
Now after doing some research, I've understood what empathy really is. It means feeling that person's emotions. The ability to feel what they feel.
Is empathy an instinct? |
[DSM criteria are for diagnosing AS in children. Adult experiences will vary.] Don't assume, in spite of what your SO says, that you have no empathy. I assert that many Aspies suffer from a distinct overabundance of empathy, which is why we can't stand being among groups of humans. Their emotional vibes are so overwhelming that it fries our minds.
Personally, I've puzzled over the whole thing endless hours like you and I have a hard time making the distinction between empathy and sympathy. I have no problem 'putting myself in someone else's shoes' in order to identify what they are likely feeling. On the other hand, if we were standing silently in the same room performing different tasks, would I automatically notice they were feeling 'off' and ask what was wrong? No, I'd probably be made mildly anxious without really knowing why and be relieved when they finally left.
But that doesn't mean I'm unconcerned or don't care that they are troubled (well, sometimes it does  ). I just process slowly, so by the time I grasp what the problem is and determine how I should react to it, the moment to behave appropriately has passed, and it's usually too late to do anything, so I say nothing. It isn't that empathy doesn't exist - it's that I am unable to demonstrate it in an appropriate manner.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
starygrrl
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 13, 2009
Posts: 795
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I have the empathy with regards to feeling others emotions. But I agree for me it takes time to process what they may be feeling, much longer than normal folks.
What I lack is theory of mind style of empathy, which is more the definition with regards to the psychological perspective. This is the understanding of an individuals perspective, and the ability to relate and learn from that persons perspective, and thus, learn.
I call that empathetic learning, I REALLY struggle with this. It is why I cannot do support groups. I can get an emotional vibe from somebody, understand it, but it is very hard for me to relate to somebody on a certian level that I share little in common with.
This is the case of one word having multiple meanings, there is the empathy with regards to "feeling someones pain" and there is empathy which should really be called empathetic learning, aka, theory of mind. I am okay with the former, and I struggle quite a bit with the ladder. Probably why I only keep friends who share a similiar world view to my own and avoid support groups. I can at least empathize with people with a similar worldview, I at least have a common point of refrence. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Apple_in_my_Eye
I don't remember
Joined: May 08, 2008
Age: 44
Posts: 3946
Location: in my brain
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| It ought to be remembered that this "lack of empathy" thing is a construction built upon an impression. It's a feeling someone who is not autistic gets that makes them infer that the autistic person is internally feeling (or not feeling) a certain thing. -- Like how there is professional literature describing stims as "purposeless." It's just somebody's projection and guess. So it might not be true the way they think it's true. It's not the theory of the lack of theory of mind was handed down by g-d or something as infallable truth. |
|
| Back to top |
|
spacecadetdave
Raven
Joined: Mar 09, 2010
Age: 46
Posts: 120
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| PLA wrote: | | MrTeacher wrote: | | murderous ravens |
Crows are murderous. Ravens are unkind. |
You are a true word geek. Salutations.
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
Ragnia
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Mar 10, 2010
Posts: 38
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hi,
Your replies have all been insightful and given me a lot to consider. My OH really was the only person who ever told me that I've "got no" empathy. It wasn't until someone suggested I could have asperger's that I researched it, and looked up empathy, that I realised exactly what it means.
Some really interesting views here that make me wonder far more about the subject now than I did yesterday. Empathy is supposed to make others respond. For example, my boyfriend (again) says I have no empathy but if he has empathy towards me. So then he would be able to determine if I'm feeling something. If so then I wonder why he hasn't always responded well? He doesn't always appear sympathetic or considerate if I'm feeling a certain way. He doesn't appear concerned about other people suffering on the news. Now it's makes me wonder if having empathy isn't as important as having things like sympathy.
Thanks so much for your comments |
|
| Back to top |
|
Philologos
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 22, 2010
Posts: 6977
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The thing about empathy - it cannot be as simple as feeling the other's emotions.
My wife is much more perceptive about others' emotions than am I, but I can recognize them and to a degree feel them.
Thing is - I am an emotive down-duller. My own emotions I do not repress, but I filter them, use dikes and dams to control the flow. If I felt her emotions direct it would tear me to pieces. I feel with her, yes, not just feel for her - but I have to filter her emotions as I do my own.
She does not feel my emotions as I do. She is an emotionalk supersensor, and she gets my emotions and those of others raw and unfiltered. It is often big time overwhelming. If she did feel my emotions as they come to me, she would feel anaesthetized.
So I get accused of being insensitive - because if you are in maximal pain I will feel bad. And she gets accused of overreacting because if you [as an emotional filterer/repressor] feel bad she will be suffering deeply. |
|
| Back to top |
|
budgenator
Deinonychus
Joined: Aug 03, 2009
Age: 58
Posts: 389
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Empathy is over-rated. It seems to lead otherwise rational people into self-destructive behaviors, usually involving getting excited over the consequences to events they have not control over and then doing something stupid just for the sake of doing something.
_________________
"I feel like a stranger in my own life" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
