NullChamber
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 Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:02 pm Post subject: Question about PDD-NOS? |
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| is PDD-NOS only a diagnosis serving as a middle ground for asperger's and autism or may it also involve someone who shows no symptoms of autism but many for asperger's but not enough to diagnose asperger's? i ask because i seem to show many symptoms of asperger's but don't seem to fully meet the criteria. i could go into elaborate detail on my reasons and facts as to why i seem very asperger's like but i won't bore you |
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Willard
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| Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:54 pm Post subject: Re: Question about PDD-NOS? |
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| NullChamber wrote: | | i seem to show many symptoms of asperger's but don't seem to fully meet the criteria. |
That's what 'Pervasive Developmental Disorder - Not Otherwise Specified' generally means. Showing some traits of Autism , but not quite enough to officially diagnose as Autistic.
Classic Autism and Asperger Syndrome are now considered essentially just different levels of functioning within the same disorder, though IMO while they do share a core of virtually identical symptoms, there are enough differences in the degree of functioning to warrant keeping the diagnoses separate - especially since there are indications in current research that there may be different genetic triggers for Autism, thus the possibility of varying 'types'.
Like anyone in the APA cares what I think.  |
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Kraichgauer
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| Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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NullChamber-
My four year old daughter was diagnosed with PDD-NOS last year. As I understood the doctor who diagnosed her, she did not have all the symptoms of autism, and he considered her to be high functioning. He said, this was more of a temporary diagnosis till she could be more permanently diagnosed when she's older.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
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pandd
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:56 am Post subject: Re: Question about PDD-NOS? |
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| NullChamber wrote: | | is PDD-NOS only a diagnosis serving as a middle ground for asperger's and autism or may it also involve someone who shows no symptoms of autism but many for asperger's but not enough to diagnose asperger's? i ask because i seem to show many symptoms of asperger's but don't seem to fully meet the criteria. i could go into elaborate detail on my reasons and facts as to why i seem very asperger's like but i won't bore you |
Mmm, I am a bit confused as the criteria and symptoms for Asperger Syndrome and Autism Disorder are so similar that it is just not plausible to have many symptoms for Asperger Syndrome but none for Autism Disorder.
PDD-NOS refers to a variety of conditions; it does not mean "very light and mild Autism like condition", although some PDD-NOS diagnoses will entail less severe or less numerous symptoms than Autistic Disorder and Aspergers Syndrome. |
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CockneyRebel
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nostromo
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:29 am Post subject: |
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Our paed showed us a chart, Autism at the bottom, PDD-NOS next up and Aspergers at the top. Then slightly above and off to one side things like Dyspraxia, Dyslexia.
Its supposed to represent severity of symptoms of the ASD spectrum with Autism (sometimes called classic Autism to distinguish it from other ASDs) at the bottom. Our son met all the Autism criteria so there he is, if he hadn't he would probably have been given PDD-NOS. |
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pat2rome
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:54 am Post subject: |
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My impression is that it's a kind of "catch-all"; it's for those who don't match any specific spectrum disorder well enough to get a diagnosis, yet are impaired enough that a diagnosis is necessary.
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starygrrl
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| pat2rome wrote: | | My impression is that it's a kind of "catch-all"; it's for those who don't match any specific spectrum disorder well enough to get a diagnosis, yet are impaired enough that a diagnosis is necessary. |
Exactly.
With that being said most of those diagnosed these days are diagnosed with PDD-NOS. It is not something that falls inbetween AS and Classic Autism, more often than not it is something that incorperates a patchwork of elements. It is very often a atypical version of asperger's syndrome, sometimes it is Non-verbal Learning Disorder with autistic traits, it can go on and on. It is atypical autism/asperger syndrome. I will say, while I am PDD-NOS, I do fall under the new autism spectrum disorder criteria.
Additionally PDD-NOS is the recommended diagnosis for adults who have an autism spectrum disorder, and get diagnosed in adulthood. |
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cmate
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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In regards to a school, just fyi, it could be tricky- we had an outside diagnosis of aspergers, but the school did not accept it. So we got another diagnosis per the school through someone else - it came back PDD-NOS. That was enough for the school to move forward to help our kid, but I can see how they might have been able to use it as a loophole. We had an advocate, so they probably helped us.
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Callista
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| nostromo wrote: | Our paed showed us a chart, Autism at the bottom, PDD-NOS next up and Aspergers at the top. Then slightly above and off to one side things like Dyspraxia, Dyslexia.
Its supposed to represent severity of symptoms of the ASD spectrum with Autism (sometimes called classic Autism to distinguish it from other ASDs) at the bottom. Our son met all the Autism criteria so there he is, if he hadn't he would probably have been given PDD-NOS. |
Your pediatrician is dead wrong. PDD-NOS is a "miscellaneous" category. It has nothing to do with severity.
I'm gonna list some example cases. All three are PDD-NOS.
18 year old doing schoolwork at a sixth-grade level. IQ tests at 65. Spoke single words by age two, phrases by three. Can hold a conversation, but does not choose to interact. Uses very little non-verbal language. Has trouble reading facial expressions and body language. Can take care of himself but not ready to move out. Does not have much desire to make friends. Spends nearly all his time on his fascination with the solar system. Occasional stims.
12 year old who has never made friends; mostly ignores other children. Makes eye contact and holds conversations normally, but it isn't his favorite activity. Spends most of his time memorizing baseball statistics. In the gifted and talented program at school.
8 year old who does not use spoken language. Has picked up some sign language and uses it when prompted. Enjoys interacting with people and can usually get her meaning across through gestures. Has made many friends in her special education class. Stims constantly. Would spend all her time watching spinning objects if she could. Curriculum currently consists mostly of self-help skills such as dressing, washing, eating, etc., but non-verbal IQ tests show her performance IQ is probably in the average range. Hyperactive, and only calms down to hyperfocus on her favorite Sesame Street video.
25-year-old whose traits would give her an Asperger's diagnosis: Uses language well, but has difficulty with non-verbal interaction and friendships; special interests; stims. No developmental delay. However, she was non-verbal until the age of five, and did not learn conversational reciprocity until she was eight.
All four are PDD-NOS. The first, because his symptoms are identical to Asperger's but he's developmentally delayed; the second, because he hasn't got enough symptoms to have Asperger's, but the ones he does have cause impairment; the third, because she doesn't have enough symptoms to be diagnosed with autism, but the ones she does have cause impairment. The fourth is someone with AS symptoms but a childhood history that indicates classic autism.
Basically, if it is obviously autism, but it doesn't fit into a specific category, PDD-NOS is the correct diagnosis. It's not surprising that over half of the autism spectrum is diagnosed PDD-NOS.
Another name for PDD-NOS is simply "atypical autism".
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Liverbird
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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My 18 years of experience working with children on the spectrum tells me that doctors tend to use this as a catch all category for when they think it might me autism, but there is speech or some other high functioning characteristics that do not easily fit into the lower functioning autism category.
This was also a diagnosis for kids that weren't classic Kanner's autism but were showing some characteristics. They threw my son into this category when he was younger because the doctor's wanted to say autism but he had speech so not so much. I still see kids in the 14 and up age group with this diagnosis. Autism is just so poorly understood.
I also don't know how a school could reject the autism diagnosis and do their own for PDD, but I suppose it could happen. In my son's case, he had an IEP with lots of accommodations for the Asperger's and when his dad took him (who also didn't accept the AS dx) he told the school that I was crazy and that he wasn't autistic at all so they ignored the Asperger's dx altogether. They were allowed to do that because they had a parent who was complicit with that.
So, it's difficult. I say, go with whatever the doctor's will give so that the child can receive appropriate services. Our neuroshrink finally said that if my son had never had the PDD dx, she wouldn't have been able to go with the Asperger's at all because I had made him too high functioning. Until he had a total meltdown in the office over the bathroom. So, it's a slimy slope.
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rainbowbutterfly
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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PDD-NOS is a tricky diagnosis.
As a child I could have been eligible for a diagnosis of Asperger's if I weren't learning delayed. However, in college I was diagnosed with Asperger's, anyway (after seeing the same psychologist for 2 years). When diagnosed I knew that the DSM stated to not diagnose it if there's a learning delay, and I told my psychologist that I was learning delayed, but he didn't change the diagnosis and told me that the DSM isn't perfect.
However, my current psychologist diagnosed me with PDD instead, because I have outgrown many social difficulties and my obsessions haven't always been focused on special interests. Though, according to Wikipedia, PDD isn't the same as PDD-NOS. However, I'm not sure if Wikipedia is correct about that, or if I misunderstood what I read. |
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pandd
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| rainbowbutterfly wrote: | | Though, according to Wikipedia, PDD isn't the same as PDD-NOS. However, I'm not sure if Wikipedia is correct about that, or if I misunderstood what I read. |
PDD is the DSM's broader term for all the autisms, whereas PDD-NOS is a particular category (specifically a non-specific one) within the autisms. Basically all autisms are Pervasive Developmental Disorders, and some are specified in the DSM (ie Aspegers Syndrome and Autistic Disorder). The remainder (all those Autisms not given a specific category within the DSM are Pervasive Developmental Disorder-Not Otherwise Specified. |
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