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Mitch8817
The Equalizer
Joined: Apr 04, 2006
Posts: 2127
Location: Victoria, Australia
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 Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:24 am Post subject: |
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>>but, at the same time f**k being a man.
always driven by thier basic needs.<<
Being a man, I found this quite offensive and ignorant. You have alot of learning to do beyond clumsy generalisations.
>>What most men want...
1) Big meals.
2) Lots of brawls (competition/dominance strivings).
3) Easy access to sex.
4) Many opportunities to lay around on their asses and do nothing.
5) Some neat toys to fiddle with.<<
This is also very ignorant/feminist. We are not cavemen, and this applies even less to those with AS.
>>How many poor people out there do not steal? Tons of them. Why not? They don't want to be branded as criminals, or to go to jail. These are safety and belongingness needs... to not want to be looked down on by the rest of society, or placed in an enclosed space with (potentially violent) criminals.<<
Fear is control, even of basic urges. This is why we need law enforcement, and some need God.
>>Meaning if someone is asexual, as opposed to being a freak or rejecting the apparent main desire of mankind, maybe that energy just goes elsewhere?
ie: creativity.<<
The blurb on the book of my life. |
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blackdove
Toucan
Joined: Nov 22, 2005
Age: 26
Posts: 278
Location: spaceship
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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ok. first of all. lets cut down on quoting others and try giving out our OWN examples. if you are going to argue your point, do so. don't just answer a question with a question. ugh.
anyway, my 'basic needs' example was surely taken out of context. i apologize, when i wrote such a statement i wasn't thinking through it entirely. but that is besides the point. what i meant was that, in society it is generally expected of women to have to 'be' more social, and superficial, attractive etc. men 'get away' with not upholding to societal norms a hell of a lot more frequently. in some ways, however, its not that women always have it harder then men, but more often they do. more is expected of a women than a man, in terms of the way society views them. it is true that it is expected or wished upon that a man aquires great wealth in his lifetime. that is an appealing quality for a man to have. but he does not have to be good-looking or appealing in any other way whatsoever. even if a woman has aquired wealth or status in her lifetime, it won't necessarily mean that she is any more attractive or appealing to the opposite sex. superficially women have a lot more expected of them then men. men can be ugly slobs, but if they have money or a decent personality, sure enough, some women will want them. but if the roles were reversed for a woman, moreso then not the same truth cannot be met.
this is a much more complicated point to argue then i had originally thought. what i said before, in my last post was just a quick generalization. i think that hazelwudi stated it best.
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"To be or not to be" that is the question.-Willy Shakey |
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Hazelwudi
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 13, 2006
Posts: 521
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| hazelwudi wrote: | What most men want...
1) Big meals.
2) Lots of brawls (competition/dominance strivings).
3) Easy access to sex.
4) Many opportunities to lay around on their asses and do nothing.
5) Some neat toys to fiddle with. |
| Mitch8817 wrote: | | This is also very ignorant/feminist. We are not cavemen, and this applies even less to those with AS. |
It's hardly feminist... I believe that women would be 100% more functional, worthwhile, and productive if they would adopt those five, as well. Nor is it ignorant... every man I have ever met irl who did not have serious emotional problems had these five... need for decent meals, brawls, sex, down time, and gadgetry, tools, books or other objects to fiddle with.
The five things most men want render them far less into social gamesmanship, less apt to be emotionally needy/neurotic, more apt to enjoy good tasting food (I am also very much a meat, bread, and potatos kind of person), more apt to understand the value of power and strive to achieve it (and if there's one thing worth having, it's power), more combatative and confrontative (i.e. more apt to engage in brawls, something my personality and temperament leaves me well-fitted to enjoy), less apt to be whiny and anal-retentive about bullshit that doesn't matter, and apt to have far more interesting topics of conversation, to boot.
In other words, those five things make men actually worthwhile, in stark contrast to the overwhelming majority of women I've known irl. This is why most of my friends are male... I'll freely admit that I can't stand most women.
In a way, I pity you guys. As a heterosexual female, I don't have to learn to put up with neurotic, ineffectual bullshit, desperately search for the one worthwhile woman in every fifty or a hundred, or be gay in order to get any. 
Last edited by Hazelwudi on Sun Nov 19, 2006 5:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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MrMark
Abstract Data Type
Joined: Jul 04, 2006
Age: 51
Posts: 10132
Location: Tallahassee, FL
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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_________________
"The cordial quality of pear or plum
Rises as gladly in the single tree
As in the whole orchards resonant with bees."
- Emerson |
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lastwish
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: May 21, 2006
Age: 22
Posts: 181
Location: uk
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Hazelwudi wrote: | | hazelwudi wrote: | What most men want...
1) Big meals.
2) Lots of brawls (competition/dominance strivings).
3) Easy access to sex.
4) Many opportunities to lay around on their asses and do nothing.
5) Some neat toys to fiddle with. |
| Mitch8817 wrote: | | This is also very ignorant/feminist. We are not cavemen, and this applies even less to those with AS. |
It's hardly feminist... I believe that women would be 100% more functional, worthwhile, and productive if they would adopt those five, as well. Nor is it ignorant... every man I have ever met irl who did not have serious emotional problems had these five... need for decent meals, brawls, sex, down time, and gadgetry, tools, books or other objects to fiddle with.
The five things most men want render them far less into social gamesmanship, less apt to be emotionally needy/neurotic, more apt to enjoy good tasting food (I am also very much a meat, bread, and potatos kind of person), more apt to understand the value of power and strive to achieve it (and if there's one thing worth having, it's power), more combatative and confrontative (i.e. more apt to engage in brawls, something my personality and temperament leaves me well-fitted to enjoy), less apt to be whiny and anal-retentive about bullshit that doesn't matter, and apt to have far more interesting topics of conversation, to boot.
In other words, those five things make men actually worthwhile, in stark contrast to the overwhelming majority of women I've known irl. This is why most of my friends are male... I'll freely admit that I can't stand most women.
In a way, I pity you guys. As a heterosexual female, I don't have to learn to put up with neurotic, ineffectual bullshit, desperately search for the one worthwhile woman in every fifty or a hundred, or be gay in order to get any. |
aww give girls a break, most guys i know treat their gfs like sh**. |
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hellznrg
Phoenix
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Joined: Mar 06, 2006
Posts: 718
Location: Apt 7, Block 16, Street 318/41, Karama, Dubai, UAE
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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hazelwudi.... YOU DA MAN!!!!!!! <------- compliment
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I have no enemies - merely topologies of ignorance - JC Denton, Deus Ex 2 |
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Hazelwudi
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 13, 2006
Posts: 521
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:50 am Post subject: |
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| lastwish wrote: |
aww give girls a break, most guys i know treat their gfs like sh**. |
Yes, and most women I've known treat their men like sh**, largely by trying to micromanage his life, treating him like a child, and doing everything she can to put the brakes on any display of personal initiative from him whatsoever. *shrugs* |
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Scintillate
Everything and Nothing
Joined: Oct 05, 2006
Age: 25
Posts: 1274
Location: Perth
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:03 am Post subject: |
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| Hazelwudi wrote: | | hazelwudi wrote: | What most men want...
1) Big meals.
2) Lots of brawls (competition/dominance strivings).
3) Easy access to sex.
4) Many opportunities to lay around on their asses and do nothing.
5) Some neat toys to fiddle with. |
| Mitch8817 wrote: | | This is also very ignorant/feminist. We are not cavemen, and this applies even less to those with AS. |
It's hardly feminist... I believe that women would be 100% more functional, worthwhile, and productive if they would adopt those five, as well. Nor is it ignorant... every man I have ever met irl who did not have serious emotional problems had these five... need for decent meals, brawls, sex, down time, and gadgetry, tools, books or other objects to fiddle with.
The five things most men want render them far less into social gamesmanship, less apt to be emotionally needy/neurotic, more apt to enjoy good tasting food (I am also very much a meat, bread, and potatos kind of person), more apt to understand the value of power and strive to achieve it (and if there's one thing worth having, it's power), more combatative and confrontative (i.e. more apt to engage in brawls, something my personality and temperament leaves me well-fitted to enjoy), less apt to be whiny and anal-retentive about bullshit that doesn't matter, and apt to have far more interesting topics of conversation, to boot.
In other words, those five things make men actually worthwhile, in stark contrast to the overwhelming majority of women I've known irl. This is why most of my friends are male... I'll freely admit that I can't stand most women.
In a way, I pity you guys. As a heterosexual female, I don't have to learn to put up with neurotic, ineffectual bullshit, desperately search for the one worthwhile woman in every fifty or a hundred, or be gay in order to get any. |
Sorry for those who hate quotes.
I've treated a woman like sh**, when I lost total control, I know its inexcusable, but I actually hate myself for it every day. I'm also spending years alone now as I must learn much about myself and I have many projects to do.
The thing I find annoying, is that I live for music, I only think about sex say once a week at the most, I don't fight, the most joy I find in life is connecting through music(jamming, sharing), its also becoming a release of the aggression that definately is testosterone related. 
I CANNOT do nothing either, never, I barely sleep because of it, I physically can not lay around I physically cannot be lazy without going insane.
My traits though they seem in direct opposition to the 5 points, are in fact overemotional exagerations of them. Actually 2 of the points I am pretty much the opposite.
I eat lots, I fight through very crazy music, I can get easy access to sex if I wanted, but I never really want it, for MONTHS AT A TIME sometimes. I can never do nothing.
Out of the billions of combination of sperm and egg, 1 of each got together and made you, you are a unique creature, each and every one of you.
Excuse me.
_________________
All hail the new flesh, cause it suits me fine! |
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Hazelwudi
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 13, 2006
Posts: 521
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:12 am Post subject: |
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| hellznrg wrote: | | hazelwudi.... YOU DA MAN!!!!!!! <------- compliment |
lol... thanks I think? I'm female, but for some reason I just never fell into a lot of the behavioral traps common to my gender.
It's not that men are perfect either... there are many men out there who are dangerous, prone to criminality, self-obsessed, etc. Even with good men, there's a tendency to talk over top of people in a conversation and to be comparatively unperceptive (missing cues and hints, etc.) It's just that overall, I find men much easier to get along with and much less prone to micromanage, whining over nothing, and so on until they just suck the life out of everyone around them. To me, guys have the more easily tolerable set of tendencies.
As far as the conversational style of many men... yes, deep down I consider talking over top of people to be "rude". However, I learned very early on to be "rude" in turn. If you're in a group of people who consider talking over top of one another to be the proper way to have a conversation... well, when in Rome, do as the Romans.
The perception thing... of all "typically male" things, this took far and away the longest for me to adjust to. Deep down, I think that I should not have to point out that which is obvious, spell out hints, and so on.... but apparently I do, and so I do. |
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Hazelwudi
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 13, 2006
Posts: 521
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:35 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I've treated a woman like sh**, when I lost total control, I know its inexcusable, but I actually hate myself for it every day. I'm also spending years alone now as I must learn much about myself and I have many projects to do. |
And how? Did you hit her, did you tell her off, or what? You make me curious...
| Quote: | | The thing I find annoying, is that I live for music, I only think about sex say once a week at the most, I don't fight, the most joy I find in life is connecting through music(jamming, sharing), its also becoming a release of the aggression that definately is testosterone related. |
Hormonally, I check out within the normal range for women. My temperament, though... lol. I just love a good brawl. I love to find someone who desperately deserves it and render unto them a venting of my spleen. I enjoy physical brawls as well, but alas the joints of my wrists and hands have finally become too decrepit to partake in these in any real quantity. 
| Quote: | | I CANNOT do nothing either, never, I barely sleep because of it, I physically can not lay around I physically cannot be lazy without going insane. |
ROFL... unless you're multitasking the writing of a presentation right now in another window or something like that, you're effectively doing nothing right now. When I say doing nothing, I don't mean just staring at the wall for hours on end. Rather, I mean nonproductive activity.
| Quote: | My traits though they seem in direct opposition to the 5 points, are in fact overemotional exagerations of them. Actually 2 of the points I am pretty much the opposite.
I eat lots, I fight through very crazy music, I can get easy access to sex if I wanted, but I never really want it, for MONTHS AT A TIME sometimes. I can never do nothing. |
The only thing you seem an anomaly on to me is the sex thing, really. I have to ask... why? Why so little sex? Are you in a relationship with a cold fish and have largely given up, letting your sex drive go dormant? Do you masturbate instead? What?
| Quote: | | Out of the billions of combination of sperm and egg, 1 of each got together and made you, you are a unique creature, each and every one of you. |
Everyone loves to fancy themselves unique, and almost no one actually is. I'd say there's even people out there somewhere who are pretty much exactly like me. I'm not sure you'd find them on this side of the Atlantic, though... my best guess as to where one should look would be Scotland.
In any case... claiming to being unique is also pretty much universal, lol. I've known a seemingly endless number of people irl who have said such things... and they were no more unique than the dozens (sometimes hundreds) of other people I've known who were exactly like them. |
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Scintillate
Everything and Nothing
Joined: Oct 05, 2006
Age: 25
Posts: 1274
Location: Perth
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:28 am Post subject: |
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Yes, I slapped her, I lost all control.
Funnily enough it wasn't from some desire to hurt, it was actually repression of my true self, that actually NEEDS to be alone, for the first time in years I'm actually driven again.
I can't do nothing, I don't consider posting on here a waste of time, I learn very much on here, when I'm not here I'm mixing, or learning elsewhere. I physically can't sit on my ass without learning or creating. And yes while I post I'm listening/checking mixes, when I finish posting I'll start writing a report, it never ever stops for me.
Yes I masturbate, just to sleep, but it just doesn't enter my thoughts often, does this have to be a problem?
Ever imagined that sex drive can be sublimated, the energy can go elsewhere, into creative pursuits, there are many possibilities.
Did I claim to be unique?
*re-reads post*
Nope I said we're all unique, I believe each person has POTENTIAL to do something no one else can do in quite the same way..
No one can create the music I can for example, it is my niche, and its simply not going to be understood in the same way.
I find it depressing to think there are people feeling exactly the same as me, but kind of irrelevant, the point for me is to simply be myself, who NEEDS to be alone, who prefers sharing music and knowledge over sex..
This isn't avoidance of something, it simply means if I'm with someone, I will snap, because I can't be close to someone without totally obsessing over them.
I think every single creature on this earth has unique properties, sure we can connect in many ways, sure you'll find those with similar personality, but they will not be identical!!
You really think out of 6 billion or so people on this earth, any two are exactly identical? In every single way?
Maybe many fail their potential so they end up doing the same as others, maybe most humans still have the herd instinct and need a group around them..
I believe what I have to give is unlike any other, I didn't try or want to be what I am, I just be me, and so far the people I've connected with even VERY closely, still take things on in different ways to my own, still offer a different perception.
Claiming to be unique SHOULD be universal, however the sheep mentality is very much a part of human nature, most people would prefer to follow or fit in, which may be the point of most.
However, if everyone simply gave up pushing themselves, because others could do the same, advancement simply wouldn't occur, the great thinkers were always isolated and separated from the mass of people, and only accepted later on.
Yes many people claim to be unique, but thats totally empty without actually offering something. Of course many people do music as I do, but no one creates quite what I do, its actually impossible for them to create an identical sound..
Which is exactly the same as many other forms of expression.
If I'm not an anomaly, thats fine, I'll still be me, I still prefer to inspire than relate, I still prefer discovery over sex.
Nothing becomes dormant, if you push anger inside, it comes out somewhere else, if you don't want or need sex, it may be coming out creatively somewhere else.
Yes, similarities are universal, however there are no two people identical in every way, if they existed, they would be able to read each others next thoughts, it simply can't logically happen.
Meaning if you follow what drives you, be yourself, THEN apply it to the majority, you can clearly see your place.. If you think about the majority then use that to create your self-image, you'll be trying too hard to be something you're not.
And even if there are many people the same as me, where are they? Why are they hiding? Those I connect with still aren't the same, and therefore we can share music and thoughts and find delight in such..
The beauty is in the dissonance, my home IS the journey, not a destination in which I can define myself as the same as everyone else. Yes it would be very interesting to find someone identical to me, however I can guarantee you it won't happen.
The people who inspire me the most are not afraid to simply be what they are, no matter what that may be.
Excuse me!
Yes sexual desire was the beginning, but... its pretty obvious its not exaclty the pinnacle of human achievement.
Even if me and another human had 1000 similarities, we would still be different.
If we were all identical, or even if any two were exactly the same, there would be no point in communication, which is probably become the real drive.
Meaning sex is a form of communicating..
It used to be VERY important to have sex..
Nowdays many can communicate without even seeing people, some of them aren't afraid, some even find things more arousing than the thought or action of sex itself.
Are they broken? or is it this the way evolution works? Yes in animals strength, or speed matters much more..
But in thought and emotion driven beings like us, in a world where its becoming easier to connect with people all over the world, it seems that a more logical, rational, creative mind would have much more success and might not even need the social/sexual aspect.
You yourself said hormonally you're like most women, yet at the same time you love a good brawl..
Definitions like this simply won't work.
I'm not broken because I don't have sex often, I actually write this much, and still manage to create and learn every day, because I find other things much more pressing.
Yes surely many others do, but each one of us would have our own niche that no other can possibly reach, if I'm wrong, someone will create exactly what I have, someone will be able to mimic me when inspired...
If no one was unique, social communication wouldn't even be a problem..
YES the many similarities enable me to logically deduce what to say to many people, however I struggle to pick the right details out of all the possible facts I could share.
I don't talk over people, however I have a talking to, and receiving all method of communicating..
Excuse the info dump.
I wish I'd stop being told that sex is so important, alright you want it, thats fantastic, accept that many have other things in mind, its not a strength or a weakness, its just another part of the spectrum in the rainbow of conciousness. (hehehe)
_________________
All hail the new flesh, cause it suits me fine! |
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Hazelwudi
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 13, 2006
Posts: 521
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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Minor trifling differences, like one white, male, middle-aged, right-wing, bible-beating Republican preferring sausage on his pizza while another white, male, middle-aged, right-wing, bible-beating Republican preferring pepperoni is not enough difference for it to matter, statistically or otherwise.
Perhaps it is because most people try so hard to fit in that they obliterate whatever individuality they may once have had... who knows?
Oh lookie there. Late teens, sandals, tattoo, promiscuous, industrial hemp necklance spouting tired old hippy cliches... not like I've ever seen one of these before. 
Look over there. Mid 30's, passive, anal-retentive, domineering mother, spineless father, and still lets Mommy control every aspect of his life. I've never seen that before either.
Oh look, it's a hypersocial, hypocritical, and self-righteous "pillar of the community' type. Watch him solict sex in the men's room tonight, get drunk, beat his wife, or some combination of the above, then watch him go "Amen" in church on Sunday morning, mostly just praying to god that no one manages to see through the lie he lives. Yea, totally unique. Or something.
Oh look, it's the self-obsessed little soccer mom in her SUV, trying her damnedest to get out of actually having to be around her children every single chance she gets, and just mortally offended at everything. Oh yes, I'm sure... one in a million.
Why look, it's somebody in their early twenties, changing their religion, sexual orientation, and political affiliation damned near with every phase of the moon... guess the last choice didn't piss off their parents enough or flip the finger at "the man" enough. Why no, I couldn't go into the student center of virtually any sizeable university in the nation, hurl a brick, and hit at least half a dozen people who are exactly like this.... it's so rare.
If you can't hear the sarcasm dripping in those, you're deaf. I could list these on for hours, but you get the point.
Same.
sh**.
Different.
Day. |
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diseased
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 24, 2006
Posts: 866
Location: Victoria, BC
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| ^ A-freakin-men. |
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Scintillate
Everything and Nothing
Joined: Oct 05, 2006
Age: 25
Posts: 1274
Location: Perth
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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If that helps you feel good.
Personally I think the similarities like this are skin deep. All of those references, however sarcastic, are all really quite similar people.
Conciousness is expressed in countless forms, otherwise you wouldn't even have an opinion different to mine, otherwise we wouldn't be able to learn from each other.
If we were all meant to be exactly the same, sexual reproduction wouldn't exist.
Progress is made by mankind in science, thought, etc, through certain people that dare to think different.
I wouldn't dare presume to know the mind of any other human, though I could maybe guess some of their feelings, desires, and actions.
_________________
All hail the new flesh, cause it suits me fine! |
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Scintillate
Everything and Nothing
Joined: Oct 05, 2006
Age: 25
Posts: 1274
Location: Perth
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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Additional:
Yes most people don't want individuality, yes most fit into the herd.
Most people would fit your definition of "same sh** different day"
However I can guarantee you will meet people you don't understand.
I can guarantee you will find people that don't fit a category unless you force yourself to see them in the most shallow way possible.
Yes I'm white, male, early 20's... This is nothing to do with my personality really, its my thoughts, how I share them, and what I do with them, that makes me, me.
_________________
All hail the new flesh, cause it suits me fine! |
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