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Is Aspergers an excuse for bad behavior? Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next  
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Should AS be an excuse for bad behavior?
Yes
18%
 18%  [ 26 ]
no
81%
 81%  [ 116 ]
Total Votes : 142

hanyo
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, if they can't help it. If it's not an "excuse" for anything and they are expected to and able to be perfectly normal then they don't have it or it's extremely mild.
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KingdomOfRats
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

a lot of people here dont seem to understand what sort of behavior aspies and auties can have outside of their own experience on the spectrum,and sound like they are wrongly categorising a lot of stuff as bad.
in the past decade have lived around so many different autistics; some of them were aspie;severely hf autistic,and am unable to think of one who actualy used the label as an excuse.

challenging behavior has legitimate triggers, such as sensory issues, communication difficulties, misunderstanding due to difficulties,an obsessive one tracked mind,theory of mind difficulties might make it difficult for the person to understand theyre hurting someone,a over sensitive arrousal system etc.
am someone who is categorised under 'severe challenging behavior' and for entire life before coming into this service [which have been in for four years now] was treated as deliberately being a trouble maker but had not been aware of most of it and all of it was an involuntary mechanism due to the issues of autism and LD and am always incredibly guilty, especialy if hurt anyone-then am very guilty for years later.

people who cant accept the responsibility of what they did are that way due to learned helplessness and parents taking all the responsibility,its nothing to do with when a person gets diagnosed.
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Verdandi
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingdomOfRats wrote:

people who cant accept the responsibility of what they did are that way due to learned helplessness and parents taking all the responsibility,its nothing to do with when a person gets diagnosed.


Thank you for putting this (the not quoted bits as well as the quoted bits) into words so clearly. I've tried to argue against this idea in the above quoted bit especially, but I am never sure how clearly it comes across.
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Raptor
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's important for parents, after becoming aware and accepting that their kid is on the spectrum, should devote time to constructively give them instruction on how to act. They can't be expected to act acceptably if they don't know what acceptable and unacceptable are and why they are.
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League_Girl
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

daydreamer84 wrote:
chlov wrote:
If you do something socially unacceptable or bad but you didn't know it was (like, offending someone not on purpose) it is not being an excuse but an explanation.
If you do something like, playing a bad joke on someone, and you know that will hurt the person very much, and then you say "I have AS" to get out of troubles, that is being an excuse.


Actually an explanation for something that caused offense in order to reduce fault is an excuse. Your explanation for saying something rude (completely by mistake, not realizing it) is that you have limited social understanding because you have autism. That's an excuse but it's a good excuse. If someone's upset because you're late for an important meeting with them and you explain to them truthfully that it's because you were in a car accident that wasn't your fault and you're in the hospital with two broken legs and a concussion that's still an excuse, it's just a really good one. If you kill someone and say it's because they disagreed with you over whether yellow is a nice colour that's a bad excuse. Autism is a good excuse for certain things, in certain situations, at certain times ecty. and a bad excuse for other things, in other situations, at other times. LINKDEFINITION



Excuse implies intentional, not even trying and they could help it but chose to do it anyway and not trying hard enough. That is why we have these other terms like "understanding" "Explanation" and "accommodation" because excuse is too insulting. Maybe the other words are PC. :shrugs:
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Dillogic
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It can be a reason.

Though from what I've seen, it's often not intentionally bad behavior. Which is probably why parents and whatnot are far more understanding than someone who just misbehaves for selfish/bad reasons.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

League_Girl wrote:

Excuse implies intentional, not even trying and they could help it but chose to do it anyway and not trying hard enough. That is why we have these other terms like "understanding" "Explanation" and "accommodation" because excuse is too insulting. Maybe the other words are PC. :shrugs:


I kind of wonder why "language that is not insulting and is more respectful" is labeled with the rather dismissive "PC" descriptor. I mean, why can't it just be "more respectful?" Or thoughtful? Or not insulting?
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naturalplastic
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems like the question should be "is neurotypicality an excuse for bad behavior" because its the NT kids who are the loud and disuptive ones. Not aspie kids.

Since aspie are better behaved then 'normal' children why is this question even being asked?
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chlov
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

naturalplastic wrote:
It seems like the question should be "is neurotypicality an excuse for bad behavior" because its the NT kids who are the loud and disuptive ones. Not aspie kids.

Since aspie are better behaved then 'normal' children why is this question even being asked?

When I was a kid a lot of NT kids in my class behaved better than I did.
Just because some kids with AS are well-behaved and are good at school it doesn't mean every kid with AS is.
As a child I was quite troublesome. I argued a lot with other children, I got into a lot of fist fights, and my grades have never been excellent because of attention deficit disorder. I had violent meltdowns during class often and I kicked and punched things.
I was not really loud because I talked lot only to those I liked, but I even interrupted the teachers while they talked at times, or I interrupted my classmates.

That's not really a well-behaved kid, maybe I wasn't as troublesome as other kids in my class, but still.
And yes I have diagnosed AS.
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azaam
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

daydreamer84 wrote:
chlov wrote:
If you do something socially unacceptable or bad but you didn't know it was (like, offending someone not on purpose) it is not being an excuse but an explanation.
If you do something like, playing a bad joke on someone, and you know that will hurt the person very much, and then you say "I have AS" to get out of troubles, that is being an excuse.


Actually an explanation for something that caused offense in order to reduce fault is an excuse. Your explanation for saying something rude (completely by mistake, not realizing it) is that you have limited social understanding because you have autism. That's an excuse but it's a good excuse. If someone's upset because you're late for an important meeting with them and you explain to them truthfully that it's because you were in a car accident that wasn't your fault and you're in the hospital with two broken legs and a concussion that's still an excuse, it's just a really good one. If you kill someone and say it's because they disagreed with you over whether yellow is a nice colour that's a bad excuse. Autism is a good excuse for certain things, in certain situations, at certain times ecty. and a bad excuse for other things, in other situations, at other times. LINKDEFINITION


I don't know when I make rude remark sometimes so you can't always rely on apologizing. I think I am getting better at instantly being more aware of my rude remarks.
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daydreamer84
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^
Well, League Girl is probably right about what it implies in every day discourse but the technical definition of an excuse is any explanation for something that lessons fault or offense. So, even if you didn't realize you were being rude to someone but someone was offended and didn't want to talk to you anymore because of it and you explained to yourself or to someone else: "I'm not a terrible person who's just rude, I have autism and therefore have limited social understanding so I accidentally offend people" that is your excuse for causing offense. It is a GOOD excuse, for sure, but an excuse. It's an explanation that lessens your fault in the matter. If you tell someone that it's snowing and not raining because when rain freezes it falls from the clouds as snow and snow is just frozen rain, that is an explanation and not an excuse. The explanation about the weather doesn't serve the purpose of lessening fault or offense because no one would blame you for the weather in the first place. It's simply giving a reason for something.

I guess the word excuse has just been stigmatized but is shouldn't be because there are good excuses and bad excuses and okay but not great excuses. Some explanations do lessen a person's fault in certain matters and that's the way it should be. I wouldn't want to live in a world where all of your actions or in-actions were considered your fault regardless of the reason behind them. Then if , for example, someone got in a car accident (the other car's fault) and had a concussion so had to go to the hospital and was therefore late for work it would be held against them.


Last edited by daydreamer84 on Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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TheValk
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can "misbehave" for reasons not directly but still ultimately linked to your ASD. e.g. you are unable to make friends -> you are frustrated -> you snap etc. Doesn't mean you should be over the top insane but if we explain misdeeds of NTs ('he shot 100 children because he had a bad childhood full of bullying') then we can certainly do so for autistic people.
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pokerface
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the behaviour of aspies is not necessarily worse than that of the average NT. On the contrary! I really wonder why so many aspies are accused of bad behaviour whilst NT's regularly show that they are bad mannered, intolerant (especially towards) everyone they perceive as different) and show a total lack of empathy themselves.

What most NT's can't handle is the total honesty and lack of hypocrisy of a lot of aspies. The average NT person expects that your behaviour towards him or her is friendly and nice. Eventhough they know in the back of their minds that you really dislike them or feel indifferent towards them, and therefore couldn't care less if they would drop dead on the spot. Unfortanetely aspies need to master the "arts" of hypocrisy and behavioral fakery. NT's are shocked when you reveal your true feelings without holding anything back. I have seen a lot of NT's at their worst behaviour which means that I don't have very warm feelings for people in general. I am slowly learning to disguise that unfortunate fact but I seriously doubt if that will make me a better person in the end.


Last edited by pokerface on Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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League_Girl
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

daydreamer84 wrote:
^^^
Well, League Girl is probably right about what it implies in every day discourse but the technical definition of an excuse is any explanation for something that lessons fault or offense. So, even if you didn't realize you were being rude to someone but someone was offended and didn't want to talk to you anymore because of it and you explained to yourself or to someone else: "I'm not a terrible person who's just rude, I have autism and therefore have limited social understanding so I accidentally offend people" that is your excuse for causing offense. It is a GOOD excuse, for sure, but an excuse. It's an explanation that lessens your fault in the matter. If you tell someone that it's snowing and not raining because when rain freezes it falls from the clouds as snow and snow is just frozen rain, that is an explanation and not an excuse. The explanation about the weather doesn't serve the purpose of lessening fault or offense because no one would blame you for the weather in the first place. It's simply giving a reason for something.

I guess the word excuse has just been stigmatized but is shouldn't be because there are good excuses and bad excuses and okay but not great excuses. Some explanations do lessen a person's fault in certain matters and that's the way it should be. I wouldn't want to live in a world where all of your actions or in-actions were considered your fault regardless of the reason behind them. Then if , for example, someone got in a car accident (the other car's fault) and had a concussion so had to go to the hospital and was therefore late for work it would be held against them.



Have you noticed when people say things like "Excuses excuses excuses" or "That is no excuse" "I don't want to hear any excuses" "oh that is just an excuse" it's always about that person lying or having some BS story or trying to avoid responsibility, or trying to get their way out of something, or trying to find a reason to do something such as playing loud music so they try and make it justified by trying to come up with some bogus reason, or how abusers will find justification for their abuse they did to their child, or how a bully will do the same for why they bullied you and not admit they were wrong and take no responsibility for it, etc?

That is why we don't use the word excuse when that is not what we're doing. Excuse is always a negative thing when people use it so when people say you are using your AS as an excuse, it's an insult if that is not what you were doing because they are implying you did it on purpose or trying to avoid responsibility so people take offense to it when they get told they are using their disability as an excuse or problem they have or issue.


By the way you can still be blamed for being late to work and not buy that "excuse" for the weather being bad because you should have left early for work instead of at your normal time. They expect you to be responsible and reliable by leaving early for work if the weather is bad so therefore they would call it an excuse and say "that is no excuse" and think it was just an excuse for you being late to work.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^
I know that people use it that way, "excuses, excuses, excuses". That;'s the stigma. I'm just saying that there are good excuses. So bad weather is a bad excuse for being late for work but getting in a car accident and having two broken legs and a concussion and being in the hospital because of it is a good excuse for not coming in to work. It's still technically an excuse because it's an explanation that lessens how much you're at fault for being late for work.
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