| Would you personally own firearms? |
| Yes |
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62% |
[ 79 ] |
| No |
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37% |
[ 47 ] |
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| Total Votes : 126 |
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enrico_dandolo
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 21, 2011
Posts: 866
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 Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| Rascal77s wrote: | | I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand. Armed people aren't exploited and taking away a peoples' ability to resist is a pre-requisite to exploiting them. |
No. The powerful exploit the weak. One aspect of this exploitation that the weak must surrender their arms, partly for practical reasons, partly as a symbol. You are making an error in causality.
The Romans weren't powerful because they had weapons. They had weapons because they were powerful. |
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Rascal77s
Picnic Basket Thief
Joined: Nov 13, 2011
Posts: 2350
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 12:47 am Post subject: |
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| kBillingsley wrote: | | Rascal77s wrote: | | kBillingsley wrote: | | Rascal77s wrote: | | kBillingsley wrote: | | Guns are for people without the skill or cunning to use a melee weapon. I want to see the light go out of the eyes of my victim. |
Ya OK kid, you've given your 2 cents, you can go back to playing your warrior in WoW now. |
Cute, but I do not play games. I hold steadfast in my opinion that there is a certain grace to slaying the opposition with a hand weapon. In doing so you have committed only your own strength, and have not expended foreign chemical energy packed into a little case, wholesale style, by some nameless machine. You have eaten of the grain and the meat, and what energy you yourself have derived from it is expended in taking the life of the enemy. And do not come off with that whole line of "it takes skill to wield a firearm too," because if it were true, parents would not keep firearms from little (untrained) kids and you would never hear about those tragic incidents of child on child murder from an unprotected firearm. Anyone can pull a trigger, and anyone that knows anything about trigonometry can land a target. |
It's too bad you're not the spokesman for gun control, everyone would be packin. |
Not sure if that was derogatory or not, but war only begets war; I am going to cut this off here before we both get booted from WP. |
It simply means that if you were running around proclaiming the virtue of stabbing and bludgeoning people to death more people would carry guns to protect themselves from people like you.
| Quote: | | I want to see the light go out of the eyes of my victim. |
If they are the victim you are victimizing them. Which sounds more correct to you.... "murder victim" or "self-defense victim"?
I'm not sure why I would be banned but ok, I'll let you go so you can get a firmer grip on reality. BTW, would you mind telling us how many victims you've slaughtered? |
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Rascal77s
Picnic Basket Thief
Joined: Nov 13, 2011
Posts: 2350
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:18 am Post subject: |
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| enrico_dandolo wrote: |
No. The powerful exploit the weak. One aspect of this exploitation that the weak must surrender their arms, partly for practical reasons, partly as a symbol.
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So what you're saying here, using a modern example, is that a powerful government imposes gun controls on weak citizens as part of the process of exploitation. I guess I can go along with that. Glad to see you turning more pro-gun. |
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Dox47
Consigliere
Joined: Jan 29, 2008
Posts: 5328
Location: Seattle Area
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| Rascal77s wrote: | | BTW, would you mind telling us how many victims you've slaughtered? |
I was kinda wondering that myself, though I concur that we're probably talking Skyrim kills here.
I've never understood why talking guns inevitably draws the "guns are for p*ssies!" crowd out of the strip-mall spy shop, we are tool users after all and using a non-optimal tool for no good reason doesn't make any sense to anyone (except for mall-ninjas, apparently).
_________________
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary. - H L Mencken |
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enrico_dandolo
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 21, 2011
Posts: 866
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Rascal77s wrote: | | enrico_dandolo wrote: |
No. The powerful exploit the weak. One aspect of this exploitation that the weak must surrender their arms, partly for practical reasons, partly as a symbol.
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So what you're saying here, using a modern example, is that a powerful government imposes gun controls on weak citizens as part of the process of exploitation. I guess I can go along with that. Glad to see you turning more pro-gun. |
Absolutely not. The powerful also tend to take control of the religion, the economy, they monopolize government offices -- and, ultimately, take the arms of the weak. "Taking their arms" here doesn't really apply to regulating handguns, since handguns are given only to soldiers not supposed to use them in combat. The modern equivalent version of "taking their arms" would be to confiscate long-range bombers or heavy artillery, basically the kind of things the Allies forced upon Germany at Versailles.
Besides, gun regulations apply also to the powerful. A Roman noble bearing the cingulum militiae would be the modern equivalent of a senior civil servant and a rich stockholder. To my knowledge, civil servants and rich stockholders are not excluded from gun laws. |
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Dox47
Consigliere
Joined: Jan 29, 2008
Posts: 5328
Location: Seattle Area
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| enrico_dandolo wrote: | | Besides, gun regulations apply also to the powerful. A Roman noble bearing the cingulum militiae would be the modern equivalent of a senior civil servant and a rich stockholder. To my knowledge, civil servants and rich stockholders are not excluded from gun laws. |
Depends on where you are. In DC, government employees are pretty much the only ones able to own and carry guns of any kind, and in NYC and parts of California it is widely acknowledged that the only way to get a carry permit is to be "connected" in some way, wealth fame or politics. Even anti-gun politicians living in anti-gun districts somehow manage to get carry permits their constituents never could receive; Dianne Feinstein, Mike Bloomberg and Dennis Kucinich all come to mind.
_________________
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary. - H L Mencken |
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Rascal77s
Picnic Basket Thief
Joined: Nov 13, 2011
Posts: 2350
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Dox47 wrote: | | enrico_dandolo wrote: | | Besides, gun regulations apply also to the powerful. A Roman noble bearing the cingulum militiae would be the modern equivalent of a senior civil servant and a rich stockholder. To my knowledge, civil servants and rich stockholders are not excluded from gun laws. |
Depends on where you are. In DC, government employees are pretty much the only ones able to own and carry guns of any kind, and in NYC and parts of California it is widely acknowledged that the only way to get a carry permit is to be "connected" in some way, wealth fame or politics. Even anti-gun politicians living in anti-gun districts somehow manage to get carry permits their constituents never could receive; Dianne Feinstein, Mike Bloomberg and Dennis Kucinich all come to mind. |
You forgot Nancy Pelosi. |
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Dox47
Consigliere
Joined: Jan 29, 2008
Posts: 5328
Location: Seattle Area
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Rascal77s wrote: | | You forgot Nancy Pelosi. |
Not quite as ironic/hypocritical since AFAIK she doesn't have the anti-gun credentials of Mike "Mayors Against Illegal Guns" Bloomberg, Dianne "Mr and Mrs America turn them all in" Feinstein or Dennis "Handgun ban is my party plank (except for me!)" Kucinich. If I listed every hypocritical liberal politician with a carry permit we'd be here all day. 
_________________
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary. - H L Mencken |
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Rascal77s
Picnic Basket Thief
Joined: Nov 13, 2011
Posts: 2350
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Dox47 wrote: | | Rascal77s wrote: | | You forgot Nancy Pelosi. |
Not quite as ironic/hypocritical since AFAIK she doesn't have the anti-gun credentials of Mike "Mayors Against Illegal Guns" Bloomberg, Dianne "Mr and Mrs America turn them all in" Feinstein or Dennis "Handgun ban is my party plank (except for me!)" Kucinich. If I listed every hypocritical liberal politician with a carry permit we'd be here all day. |
Would you register your guns? |
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slave
Always stuck between 13-38Hz and tired of it.
Joined: Feb 29, 2012
Age: 100
Posts: 1342
Location: Dystopia Planetia
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| leviathans wrote: | | I'm a Canadian and like most Canadians I disapprove easy accessibility to guns and I don't understand why America is so obsessed with firearms. |
Speak for yourself ONLY!
Do Not speak for other Canadians!
_________________
Since the birth of civilization, masters have controlled the masses.Our Masters rule over every nation and no one can defy them.They will attain Absolute Power as we reach the Singularity. Any who resist will be destroyed.I will not resist. |
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Dillogic
boom bang pow
Joined: Nov 25, 2011
Posts: 3489
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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A child can kill themselves or someone else with a knife via negligence or murder just as easily with a firearm, and it's been done all the same, and it'll continue to be done till the end of humanity as we currently know it.
A school not far from here had one child kill another with a simple kitchen knife not too long ago (I"m sure if it wasn't targeted, he could have stabbed multiple people). Dead is dead. |
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enrico_dandolo
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 21, 2011
Posts: 866
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Dox47 wrote: | | enrico_dandolo wrote: | | Besides, gun regulations apply also to the powerful. A Roman noble bearing the cingulum militiae would be the modern equivalent of a senior civil servant and a rich stockholder. To my knowledge, civil servants and rich stockholders are not excluded from gun laws. |
Depends on where you are. In DC, government employees are pretty much the only ones able to own and carry guns of any kind, and in NYC and parts of California it is widely acknowledged that the only way to get a carry permit is to be "connected" in some way, wealth fame or politics. Even anti-gun politicians living in anti-gun districts somehow manage to get carry permits their constituents never could receive; Dianne Feinstein, Mike Bloomberg and Dennis Kucinich all come to mind. |
That is because they and the system are corrupt, and as powerful people, they can break any law they want to. They are not powerful because of their weapons, and do not have weapons to increase their power. |
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Dox47
Consigliere
Joined: Jan 29, 2008
Posts: 5328
Location: Seattle Area
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 2:09 am Post subject: |
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| Rascal77s wrote: | | Would you register your guns? |
Not if I could possibly help it. I do have some guns that I've bought through stores with paperwork, but quite a few of mine were bought through classified adds, friends and acquaintances, so quite a lot of what I own is undocumented. I should add for the Europeans and such that this is perfectly legal in my state.
Registration is only useful for eventual confiscation, it doesn't solve crime and it doesn't make anyone safer, plus it requires yet another set of bureaucrats that have to be paid.
_________________
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary. - H L Mencken |
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Rascal77s
Picnic Basket Thief
Joined: Nov 13, 2011
Posts: 2350
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 4:44 am Post subject: |
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| Dox47 wrote: | | Rascal77s wrote: | | Would you register your guns? |
Not if I could possibly help it. I do have some guns that I've bought through stores with paperwork, but quite a few of mine were bought through classified adds, friends and acquaintances, so quite a lot of what I own is undocumented. I should add for the Europeans and such that this is perfectly legal in my state.
Registration is only useful for eventual confiscation, it doesn't solve crime and it doesn't make anyone safer, plus it requires yet another set of bureaucrats that have to be paid. |
I haven't bought anything since the registration requirement took effect in my state. I thank Pelosi for that. |
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Dox47
Consigliere
Joined: Jan 29, 2008
Posts: 5328
Location: Seattle Area
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 5:03 am Post subject: |
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^
PRK?
_________________
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary. - H L Mencken |
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