ThDude
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Jan 02, 2012
Posts: 40
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 Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:21 pm Post subject: The dead are dead. |
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Persons with Asperger's like myself, think and process things different. This is not news to many of you.
However I have a more specific "problem" that I would like to talk about and see who else might deal with it.
Death, more so dead people is the subject.
When a person dies that I know, or dont know why should I be sad? What does being sad about this do? I have no reason to be sad. Things die, I don't cry over the animals I eat, nor plants I feast on.
My grandparents, aunts, cousins, and other family has died and everyone is sad for some reason, I don't know why.
When someone dies, no amount of tears will bring them back. It also does not fix any problem. If my brother were to die why should I be upset?
More then once a NT person has told me that "death is sad because it is" which to me is like saying "the car goes fast because it does".
Can anyone help explain it to me?
Who else deals with this?
I don't know how else to word this so if I need to explain more ask please.
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if knowledge is power then how come people with aspergers dont run the planet? |
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Ganondox
Visceral Diety
Joined: Oct 08, 2011
Age: 16
Posts: 3592
Location: Indonesia
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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Because they are gone, and you can no longer interact with them. The reasoning is actually pretty selfish if you think about it.
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Burzum
Indeed
Joined: Apr 27, 2011
Posts: 1205
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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As for your question, I believe the function of grief is to create negative stimuli in your brain so as to make you avoid the same scenario in the future that led to causing your grief. Could be wrong, though. |
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ThDude
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Jan 02, 2012
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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So a person misses them, and is sad? But that does not really help the fax that they are gone. Yes it sounds very selfish indeed.
^ahhh fan dubs for Anime, make me laugh.
And I don't see how having grief over a death can prevent you from grief the next time.
You can not avoid death, people die. So to be sad at every death seems stressful and a waist of energy.
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if knowledge is power then how come people with aspergers dont run the planet? |
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Burzum
Indeed
Joined: Apr 27, 2011
Posts: 1205
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| ThDude wrote: |
You can not avoid death |
Yes you can, by not doing things that cause death.
Take, for example, a parent who is too lax about watching their child, resulting in the child running onto the road and getting hit by a car. If they have another child, they will become more watchful so as to avoid the grief caused by their last child's death. |
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Einfari
Velociraptor
Joined: Dec 23, 2011
Age: 18
Posts: 424
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Death is sad because if someone close to you dies, you will never get to have the same experiences with them again. I find losing someone difficult because I can't spend anymore time with that individual person. Each person brings a different experience and when that is lost, the experience just ends so suddenly. |
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auntblabby
Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
Posts: 18086
Location: the island of loveable toy humans
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| here is mourning not just for the dead of whose company one is to never enjoy again, but for the dear departed of any kind. i mourned the loss of hope, that i would ever be normal. |
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Titangeek
Thinker of thoughts
Joined: Aug 23, 2010
Age: 19
Posts: 7650
Location: somewhere in the vicinity of betelgeuse
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:06 am Post subject: |
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My thoughts on the subject are best summed up by Data from star trek
| Quote: |
Ishara Yar: Are you able to have friends?
Lt. Commander Data: Yes.
Ishara Yar: But you don't have feelings, do you?
Lt. Commander Data: Not as such. However, even among humans, friendship is sometimes less an emotional response, and more a sense of... familiarity.
Ishara Yar: So, you can become used to someone.
Lt. Commander Data: Exactly. As I experience certain sensory input patterns, my mental pathways become accustomed to them. The input is eventually anticipated, and even missed when absent. |
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auntblabby
Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
Posts: 18086
Location: the island of loveable toy humans
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:48 am Post subject: |
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^^^
that scriptwriter [whoever he was] had great aspie insight. |
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Titangeek
Thinker of thoughts
Joined: Aug 23, 2010
Age: 19
Posts: 7650
Location: somewhere in the vicinity of betelgeuse
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:53 am Post subject: |
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| auntblabby wrote: | ^^^
that scriptwriter [whoever he was] had great aspie insight. |
I believe the writer for that episode (Time's Arrow, part one and two) was Joe Menosky
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Always be yourself, express yourself, have faith in yourself, do not go out and look for a successful personality and duplicate it.
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VIDEODROME
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 21, 2008
Age: 36
Posts: 1698
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:05 am Post subject: |
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I think it depends on how the person lived and died.
If a person lived well and had a long life I tend to have a more positive feeling. I mean sure you feel their absence, but in my thoughts this is significantly offset by acknowledging a life lived well. Deep down I kind of give them a mental salute and think "Well done!"
Though on the other hand I received news that I lost a friend to unexpected suicide several years ago. Sad isn't the right word for it, but more a sense of concern that he felt the need to do this mixed with some confusion on the matter. Followed by a few weird dreams and hoping that at least he found peace now. |
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nirrti_rachelle
Go Tigers!
Joined: Jul 22, 2005
Age: 38
Posts: 1362
Location: The Dirty South
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:07 am Post subject: |
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People grieve over the death of others because they will miss them. Aspies tend not to have many close relationships so we don't have a lot of experience in losing someone close enough for us to feel sorrow over their death.
Also, when people die prematurely over something that could've been prevented such as disease, murder, suicide, and accidents, we grieve over the injustice of the situation. The only person whom I've truly grieved over thus far was my former stepfather, who took his own life. I felt bad that he was in so much pain that he saw no other way out but death. I also felt awful for my brother and sister, who were his natural children and the fact they could never be with their father again.
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auntblabby
Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
Posts: 18086
Location: the island of loveable toy humans
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:28 am Post subject: |
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| Titangeek wrote: | | auntblabby wrote: | ^^^
that scriptwriter [whoever he was] had great aspie insight. |
I believe the writer for that episode (Time's Arrow, part one and two) was Joe Menosky |
he is a big fan of #47.  |
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Aldran
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: May 21, 2011
Posts: 184
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:33 am Post subject: |
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@Burzum
I think he meant that nobody can live forever, rather then "Premature Death", but the OP is of course free to correct this impression if Im wrong.
@ the OP:
Logically I agree entirely with what you and others have said..... Including the bit about Aspie's not having many close relationships and therefore not experiencing death of others quite the same as a result. I would bet I could dig up a study somewhere looking at this same phenomena, and would also wager that I could find similar lines of thinking in any study of Sociopaths......
I would ask, have you ever lost anything you've felt sad (Even a little bit) about? Anything? Could have been a prized possession, a pet, even something as mundane as a favorite TV Show, and felt a sense of loss? Theres alot of ways of looking at this next bit, but many people seem to feel that, the more one despairs at the loss of someone/thing, the more they probably cared about/loved/what-have-you for that item/person. At the end of the day, Loss affects everyone differently, and to each their own. But I would agree that if you don't let yourself get close to something/someone you'll probably never mourn for it/their loss. Not that that is inherently a good thing, as I also agree that, to know loss is probably to also know great joy and happiness at some point previous to the loss. Finally I would warn against the dangers of heavy emotional dissociation should you ever find yourself in that situation.
Ta,
Aldran |
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irishwhistle
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 01, 2006
Age: 40
Posts: 1332
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:42 am Post subject: |
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Perhaps they should not say that death is sad because it is, but that they feel sad because they do. In other words, different people respond to things differently, and without necessarily knowing or needing to know why, sadness is what they feel. And as stated above, this can be because a person misses the presence of another, misses their personality, possibly found something about that person that made them better able to go on living themselves. It can also be sorrow at the loss of someone who was considered to have more to do in life, such as a parent of young children who are still dependent upon them for care, or someone who was creating or doing great things, such as Vincent van Gogh. This brings back up the subject of suicide already mentioned, which is considered tragic because it means someone felt life so unbearable that they chose to end it. One might suggest the suicide is happier now, but if you perceive it that way, the sorrow that brought it about would still be sad. I don't hold with it myself... I think suicide spoils one of life's last great surprises...
Also, don't forget the various beliefs and traditions, whichever you believe. If you believe death is the end, the death of another could be frightening and sad. If you believe we pay for our sins by going to Heaven or Hell, there's the chance of sorrow for one whose life was less than moral. All it adds up to is that many people sorrow just because they miss someone and grieve still more because it is an event which can make you more aware of your own mortality. Thus a lot of feelings are stirred up. Yes, it can all be considered selfish, but I don't know that it's a bad sort of selfishness. Feelings by nature are personal... they're all selfish. It's not the same as wishing someone ill, or choosing to do them ill. You feel what you feel.
A variation... in my Church, we don't generally feel too down at a funeral versus others (believing in an afterlife that is not about beatings and horror but about seeing family again), but exceptions to that have been the funeral of a man who committed suicide (ugly circumstances; he was a narcissist whose wife left him, and it is suspected that he was in effect getting revenge), and a baby who died unexpectedly in her sleep (sorrow for the early severing of life, the shock and suddenness, and the family now hearing quiet in a place that was once filled with life).
It's complicated. I understand trying to comprehend a feeling you've just never had. Death mostly just makes me uneasy since I haven't lost many people. But I don't cry for them.
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