France is very paradoxical. In the one hand, there is a progress about autism by specific structures, and on the other hand, there is still a bunch of psychologists who just don't understand anything about autism.
Thanks Alfonso for your support. Well, I would say the problem lies in the universities were Freud and Lacan are the masters. You are welcome to conquer the universities and enforce lastest psychological and psychiatric knowledge. This key action should solve the problem and would get France correctly updated.
Yes, and I think that's something you're missing in the picture Liloleme, I do not even understand how on earth you have managed to have an autistic child in France and escape completely the system . There's A LOT of "pressure " (it's more like harassment really ) to put autistic kids in IMEs, which are HORRIBLE places , you're not allowed to visit your child or even know wtf is happening to him in there!! And most of what they do is psychoanalysis , or giving them antipsychotic drugs. Look at this.
Thats right, your 10 year old child, who has seizures, has a meltdown (he is being tested for Autism) on the bus and they TRY TO SEND HIM TO JAIL, this just happened, I found it on the news today.
I have seen the wrapping here and I have said that it is horrendous and children died from hypothermia, however children have also died in other countries while being restrained and suffocated.
Like I said I dont know where you live here in France or what has happened to you. I can only say what my situation is and I am aware as I have said OVER AND OVER that there is NO country that does not have serious issues in certain areas. Im saying we can not attack one state or country because its bad all over.
Im not lying to you, as you seem to be accusing me of. I live in Gleize outside of Lyon France and this is the way things are for us. Im sorry it is gone so wrong for you but I do think that I sent you information on how to get help here in France at one point in time because you or someone else asked me where I get my services from.
Here is some footage of a bus driver and an aide beating a non verbal autistic child. Also you can see how cruel and angry they seem and how they pull his seat belt as tight as they can.
I can post more if you like....there is abuse here and abuse in the US and abuse everywhere. As I said, lets stop talking about it and DO SOMETHING TO STOP IT!
I just found this....a cell in a Arizona Elementary school for autistic children.
This is a hospital treating a severely autistic young adult or teen and his Mother is very calm....I give her a lot of credit. This is in California. It is hard for people who are not educated to care for severely Autistic or mental ill children. My son was on a mental ward for a few days and he told me that they would tackle young kids and stab them with drugs to calm them down. There are better ways, we need to teach people how to care for Autistic people and children.
I thought it was pretty amazing that my doctor knew enough about Autism here in France that he ORDERED me a private room. In the US they would not do this for me. Also while in the hospital I had a meltdown and locked myself in my room, no one did anything to me but was kind and rubbed my back and straightened my sheets until I calmed down....no one threatened me or my husband or said anything about me not being well enough to care for my kids and just to remind you, my daughter is classic autism and my son is Aspergers.
Also Im not just slamming the US...there are videos and stories from other countries like Canada and many others that are far worse than the US and France....the UK is not doing so hot right now either. The funds are simply not there and they are taking away disability and services. The grass is simply not greener on the other side of the fence. I did not like this slamming of French people in general just as I would be upset if someone made ALL of the US look bad because its not true. A lot of help and work needs to be done everywhere not just one place. I like Documentaries and Im glad this one is allowed to be seen by other countries but as you know France has laws that if you are in a documentary you can change your mind and decide you dont want to be a part of it, even after it is finished. All the doctors do not want to be in this video because the finally woke up and realized everyone does not think like they do and that they are in the wrong! So, as I said, it was good that the documentary was made and its wrong to make this woman pay these slime balls that call themselves doctors money for the abuse that they cause!
I just saw a hideous video from China that I will not post here. It is a typical child (as far as we know) being, kicked, dragged, laughed at, having his fingers stomped on....supposedly he stole something. He looked to be about six years old, was screaming and crying......horrible.
Also I dont know if you have visited every place here in France but my husband and I have visited many places and schools and most of them were very nice and used the same program we got in San Diego. My husband does have a co worker who has a autistic child in his twenties who has been in and out of hospitals and received the treatment that the child above has had....but the video above is the US. So unless you have just gone around everywhere you cant make the judgement that we are just lucky. We have to start somewhere and they are trying here in France to change things, you behave as though they are not.
The thing that bothers me and upsets me is the mentality of some of the parents here. As I said, they want to hide away their "damaged" children. That is one thing that really pisses me off and unfortunately this happens in my family. I shouldnt be sharing this but my nephew is 14 and was born with a spontanious mutation of Di Georges syndrome. His Mother refused to get him any help....he has a huge hole in his palate and heart conditions. They insist putting him in public schools where he has no friends and can not keep up with the other kids, he can hardly speak and is very depressed and despondant. Also it makes me angry that they do not tell him about his upcoming surgeries, they dont want him to get upset, they say (the parents)....to me this is wrong, children should be told the truth about what is going to happen to their body. You dont lie to them!
Also there are so many Non verbal or hardly verbal children in my childrens therapy due to lack of early intervention and some even being put into these hospitals or institutions.....they call them schools but they are not. I do know the bad things and if you really read.....sorry, i know Im wordy and French is your language but I did say all this already.
All I can tell you is that no one has the right to take your child or tell you that you do not make him social. Its a good time to fight this right now as there is so much negativity toward the way the French system works for Autistic children. The reason I donate things to my kids center is because I want these kids to get the assistance and help that they need. I want them to be able to communicate and how to self soothe. The iPad (If Proloquo2go would get on the ball and get the French version done) could help a lot of the kids who communicate with PECS.
My son has a best friend, he obviously has Aspergers and his parents dont tell him because, as I said, I am honest with my kids and they know they have Autistm and Aspergers. Im glad my son has a friend and neither one of them care if they have Aspergers or not, they are happy and have the same interests.
Here is another video of the same boy in the hospital and mother finds him unresponsive and having an obvious allergic reaction. Where is she supposed to put her son when he is ill?? You can read and see her frustration and anger. This is San Diego California and I had only one issue where a therapist pushed my daughter to the point of her bashing her head on the floor. I calmly picked her up and told the therapist that the session was over. My daughter was also in the hospital from illness and typical doctors are clueless. We had to point out her obvious severe symptoms of Autism to our pediatrician and I even bought posters of "red flags" for autism to put on the walls. One of our doctors thanked us for showing them, not only what to look for but how much children can change with the right therapy.
Last edited by liloleme on Wed May 23, 2012 2:36 am; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:46 pm Post subject: disappointed
At first I was surprised and shocked to see this, but then I remembered how frequently history repeats itself and how hard it is to make old habits die out. There are so many unethical things that have happened in the history of psychology and psychiatry (and this is coming from someone training to be a clinical psychologist). It is so frustrating that they justify what they are doing by saying that it is "beneficial". Beneficial for whom? Lobotomies, drugging until practically comatose, shock therapy...sure they create changes, but isn't that often mostly for the staff to feel like they can handle their patients more easily? Now it is true, there are some cases where treatments like electroconvulsive therapy are still used (e.g., severe depression), but it is only used when the patient does not respond to other treatments and when the patient can make an informed choice about their treatment. It so important for people in any country to advocate for the most appropriate/least restrictive treatments with the individual client's needs considered foremost, especially when that person cannot communicate what they want/need.
Hello. Here are some news from France. I tried to get a diagnostic from a CRA (Centre Ressource Autisme). It was very long, and in the end, in a interview with a psychiatrist, she asked me about my thought about reality. I answered that what we see is not reality, it is a construction from our senses. So at the same time, I do not say that it is not reality. This is common knowledge in neuropsychology. Guess what, she said, quite gently, that I was psychotic, and that I needed to be followed by a psychiatrist. I am so disappointed. All these months reduced to ashes, because I have non conventional theories. I just have the feeling that they fear that you don't get into line. And you know what ? I don't want to get into line !
Joined: Aug 01, 2012 Posts: 232 Location: Between France and Kuwait
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:43 pm Post subject:
Hopefully, we went to see a psychiatrist in Kuwait. He was nice man, intelligent and understanding, and studied in London.
In two appointments, it was clear for him that I had AS. I didn't know about it before I had this diagnosis, really.
France is really behind in psychiatry, but things are changing slowly, as I was doing perfectly fine with appointments in Marseille (south-eastern France), including therapies with other young adults with AS, thematic work groups on how to develop a specific skill, frequent and adapted appointments with psychologists. I was living in autonomy at the time, with my parents abroad. It was hard and I wasn't ready yet, and I had more university assignments that I could manage so unfortunately I dropped the course.
I'm perfectly aware this might be one of the only structures in France that work like that. Everywhere else, it's actually pretty much what you've seen and heard on Youtube or in the news. It is bad.
Joined: Aug 01, 2012 Posts: 232 Location: Between France and Kuwait
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:45 pm Post subject:
Khandov wrote:
"Freedom, Equality, Brotherhood" No other slogan has ever been anywhere such frothiness as in France.
Yep. It's so far from reality.
People are far from equal, and our government doesn't aim for that goal.
The written press is not free as it is full of corporate influences. The TV News are full of lies, omissions and useless murder cases that are put on air to scare people.
The last word, brotherhood, is the funniest. Society has never been so selfish and self-centred nowadays. It's very hard to get someone to help you. Everybody tend to mind its own business and act in its own profit. What a shame.
@ French slogan, it's an utopia, that doesn't mean that France is the worst country in these domains, since no nations can even pretend to be better than another in this. Since you'll never get the real freedom, since there will always be leaders, since they're always be discrimination (just look the news, just look wp if you wan't and you'll see how autistics are treated everywhere), no one will ever be worse or better, because they're all the same. Just think about it, cause from what I see there, this topic is more a "I do what you don't" instead of having a neutral view. _________________ "Her eyes came to sharp focus. In the years since her awakening, she had always regretted forcing the sun to come to her aid. She was Leona, the Radiant Dawn, and she was the sun’s avatar on Runeterra. It was her place to serve the sun."
I do not agree with any of the methods depicted in this movie about Autism in France BUT, and i say this again, BUT we have to be careful how we depict psycho-analysis. IN FACT, i believe just like there is a place, an extraordinary intersection where art and science meets, so is there one where psychoanalysis and neuro-science could meet.
"Analysis of the mind". It's based on ideas such as free association, the Oedipus complex, and so on. Early adopters such as Freud held somewhat progressive views for their time, but many, in France, don't realise it isn't progressive anymore, and is, in fact, very outdated. When, for example, atheist/hedonist philosopher Michel Onfray released a book that was highly critical of Freud, it caused a great deal of controversy.
In that article, for those who read French, I argue that psychoanalysis is "neurotypist", that is, it encourages misconceptions and prejudices against autists :
The major problem with "classical" psychoanalysis is that it isn't scientific : for them, the unconscious is more than the part of indirectly observable mental processes that are not known to consciousness, but also a terrible machine that makes them not even wrong.
I watched the video but I really haven't practiced my French for a while! I understood all of the parts of the video that related to the things that you said in your post ediself but was there anything else in the video that I might not have understood beyond what you described in your post? If there is anything else perhaps you could give a brief summary for the benefit of those who don't understand French? It would be very appreciated
