Bloom
Deinonychus
Joined: Mar 16, 2012
Posts: 332
Location: On the OTHER Wrong Planet. The nicer one...
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 Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 9:15 am Post subject: |
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| OddDuckNash99 wrote: | | Bloom wrote: | 3. Please see above. Self-diagnosing isn't good, and should be discouraged, even if the diagnoser is a professional in the field. Docs do it All The Time. We know better...  Every doc was an intern at some point!
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First, I am not a medical doctor. I am a scientist. Secondly, there is nothing wrong with self-diagnosis IF you have expert knowledge of the disorder, the disorder is causing you functional impairment, and you seek a professional diagnosis for confirmation and treatment for the functional impairment. I have many problems, most of which I first found out about through self-diagnosis, because my conditions don't manifest themselves as common phenotypes. Again, the ONLY reason I found out I have OCD, the only reason I am now receiving treatment, is because I self-diagnosed myself. Doctors know to look for the common stereotypes of psych disorders, and when you don't match that criteria, you fall through the cracks. I do not overdiagnose myself with things. If I hear about something that I KNOW fits me, I obsessively research it until I am sure, and then, I seek professional diagnosis. Every one of my self-diagnoses has been confirmed by a professional. I do not have "medical student syndrome." You have to be an advocate for your own health, because there are many rare conditions doctors never even bother to screen for. I am very against overdiagnosing, but I am also very against doctors not taking my knowledge seriously. |
I'm not going to get into a debate with you. You've obviously made up your mind, and that's that. I apologize for my fellows, and they seem to have not listened to you in the past, and that is one of the biggest failings of the profession. Unfortunately, as time moves on, this isn't going to improve...
You didn't, however, read what I wrote. There's a difference between self-advocacy and self-diagnosing. The doctor-patient relationship should always be collaborative. People with agendas are very difficult to work with - both patients and doctors.
You know, as a scientist, you certainly did personalize what I said... and you use a lot of absolutes... mayhap you should just re-read the information, and take it for what it's worth. It wasn't about you. 
| OddDuckNash99 wrote: |
| Quote: | | Also, Seroquel is an antipsychotic (an effective one), as is Haldol. They are not mood stabilizers like Lithium. |
This is incorrect. Many bipolar patients use atypical anti-psychotics as anti-manic agents. While they are not categorized officially as a mood stabilizer, many bipolar individuals do use atypicals for mood stabilization. |
Please don't spread bad information, especially when you're touting expert knowledge. Again, my statement was "Seroquel is an antipsychotic, not a mood stabilizer." I never said "Seroquel is only used to treat psychosis." Here's a link for you (and others) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001030/
Again, as a scientist, I think you need to step back for a moment, and not be so defensive. You've given some good information in this thread, and your willingness to help others advocate for themselves is great.
If, on the other hand, you feel the need to continue debating, please take it to PMs. This thread isn't about you (or me).
Be well. |
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OddDuckNash99
Hypercoaster
Joined: Nov 16, 2006
Posts: 2527
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| Bloom wrote: | | Please don't spread bad information, especially when you're touting expert knowledge. Again, my statement was "Seroquel is an antipsychotic, not a mood stabilizer." I never said "Seroquel is only used to treat psychosis." |
The only thing I'm going to add, as I do not want to debate either, is that atypical anti-psychotics ARE mood stabilizers in some cases. That is why I said your statement was incorrect. I knew you didn't mean that atypicals are only used for schizophrenia and psychosis. Seroquel and other atypicals belong to the class of anti-psychotics, but they CAN be mood stabilizers. Just like how Depakote and Tegretol are really anti-epileptics, but they are often called mood stabilizers. As for being defensive, I am much more argumentative on this forum than I am in real life, and I think this is just due to the nature of the site.
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Helinger: Now, what do you see, John?
Nash: Recognition...
Helinger: Well, try seeing accomplishment!
Nash: Is there a difference? |
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Asp-Z
Clockwork Planet
Joined: Dec 07, 2009
Posts: 11016
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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Here's the thing about the whole self-diagnosis issue though... Don't you need to do it to some extent to know you need to see a doctor anyway? In terms of mental or neurological issues, I mean. For example, if you're feeling really down for a significant amount of time you'd need to think you have some sort of depression before you think you need to see a professional about it, else you wouldn't think there was a problem in the first place. And since (on the NHS, anyway) it takes so long to actually get your problems seen to by a specialist as opposed to a GP, there's nothing you can do for months but research yourself.
It's a slippery issue for this reason... It's not as simple as self-diagnosis vs. letting a doctor decide.
Anyways, I'm interested because there's a condition I think I might have and I'm seeing a professional about it soon, but yeah, during the wait I couldn't help but research things myself. It's not like I have it stuck in my head that I absolutely have any one condition though, I'll let the professional decide that for certain, that's their job. |
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Bloom
Deinonychus
Joined: Mar 16, 2012
Posts: 332
Location: On the OTHER Wrong Planet. The nicer one...
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Asp-Z wrote: | Here's the thing about the whole self-diagnosis issue though... Don't you need to do it to some extent to know you need to see a doctor anyway?
It's a slippery issue for this reason... It's not as simple as self-diagnosis vs. letting a doctor decide.
Anyways, I'm interested because there's a condition I think I might have and I'm seeing a professional about it soon, but yeah, during the wait I couldn't help but research things myself. It's not like I have it stuck in my head that I absolutely have any one condition though, I'll let the professional decide that for certain, that's their job. |
Ciao, Asp-Z
I think people (including myself) are getting caught up in lexical issues. To "self-diagnose" is to make the proclamation, "I have this disease, and this is the prognosis." self-diagnosing is dangerous business because of the bias involved. We, as people go, become too invested on way or another. Some really want a specific diagnosis (for a
LOT of different reasons, "But if I have Schizophrenia, I'll get government money!"), while others want a diagnosis to avoid something else ("I don't have skin cancer, I have a RASH!").
The more dangerous part is what those of us in the recovery community refer to as "Google Elitism" - Google Docs. It's those folks that, not only come in telling the professional what they have and how they need to be treated, but they go on to tell others. They don't even give the professional a chance because they've already made up their mind. Google told them so, it HAS to be true. I mean, how many times have you heard someone post on WrongPlanet saying they used Google Scholar, only to post a link to some Abstract that only sort of supported a claim? Nonetheless, they're suddenly experts in the field...
Once you come in with an agenda, there's nothing your professional can do to help you. You've made up your mind, and that's that. Imagine, if you will, that you have 10-20 minutes (THIRTY minutes if your SUPER lucky and have AMAZING insurance) to talk to someone. In this 10-20 minute period, you have to convenience this person that their not really Christian; that homosexuality is not a learned behavior; that evolution is a fallacy; that pink is a shade, not a hue? You can't. 10-20 minutes isn't enough time to even build rapport with someone, less alone change a belief system.
In neurology/neuroscience we have this saying, "That which fires together, wires together." If you've just spent a year convincing yourself that you have, say, Schizophrenia, you've adopted a new belief and I promise you you'll be able to demonstrate at least some symptomology which many docs will be able to treat (to everyone's amazement) effectively. Does that mean you always had Schizophrenia? Well... we may never know. What we do know? That belief is a power, powerful wiring tool. The human brain is the most magnificent phenomenon we've studied on the planet yet, IMO. Of course... I'm bias. 
But, let's talk about what else you said, because you brought up other good points. Don't people generally have a clue? I mean, don't YOU know your body better than most? Yes. Absolutely yes. Any doctor worth his salt (again, this is my opinion) is going to spend a significant amount of time interviewing you. They're going to ask questions. When you say,
"Hey, doc, I think I have cancer." The doctor is going to say, "Oh? Why?" The doc is going to listen to you mindfully, then. When you leave his or her office, you're going to feel listened to. And if you don't? You're going to find a doctor that IS going to listen to you, mindfully.
This is a key difference between some of what's being said, though. Self-diagnoser tells the doctor, "Hey, doc, I have this. Treat it." That's not collaboration. It's not a partnership. It's a dictatorship. People have the mind that, "Well, I'm PAYING him, he works for ME." What they don't realize? That's MY license. I'M paying for THAT. If I don't question you, I lose it. If I don't fight for what I believe is good medicine, I lose it. I lose my license? Hmm.... well... let's not talk about that
The intelligent patient, though, which you sound like, Asp-Z, goes in prepared. They've done research. They have questions! They have a list of symptoms. They say, "You know, I had to wait a long time for this appointment, so I was going to make it worth my while, and I did some research..." Now, watch this! This is a collaboration; a partnership; it's not a dictatorship. Some doctors have the mind that, "Well I'm the one with a medical degree, you're paying ME, shatup and listen!" What they don't realize? Some patients are JUST missing that medical licensing and stand just as tall as them on the intelligence scale. Some of the patients have VAST amounts of time to do the research and discovery that they don't have because they're rushing clients. Some of the patients, that they're ready to blow off so soon, are going to save their medical license because the patient found something while researching that the doc overlooked.
And when all else fails, there's Patient's Rights...
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Every County Is Mandated to have a Patient's Rights Advocate. You don't think you're being treated correctly? Don't think the doc is listening, and can't find another? Think other tests need to be run? Don't think the doc is taking you seriously? CONTACT YOUR PATIENT'S RIGHTS ADVOCATE.
Always remember that the patient-doctor relationship should be like any other; collaborative. Once one person attempts to "rank higher" than the other, it's time to even the ranks, or move on.
I hope that helps/clears the air. |
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Asp-Z
Clockwork Planet
Joined: Dec 07, 2009
Posts: 11016
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 8:07 am Post subject: |
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That was a very informative post, Bloom. Thank you for taking the time to write it
I'm one step closer to getting my issue fixed anyway, but I still don't know what my exact diagnosis is. It's very frustrating, I just want to know what it is and what treatment I can undergo so I can get things sorted. But then, I've had issues for years now, I guess waiting a few more weeks isn't the end of the world really |
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Bloom
Deinonychus
Joined: Mar 16, 2012
Posts: 332
Location: On the OTHER Wrong Planet. The nicer one...
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| Asp-Z wrote: | That was a very informative post, Bloom. Thank you for taking the time to write it
I'm one step closer to getting my issue fixed anyway, but I still don't know what my exact diagnosis is. It's very frustrating, I just want to know what it is and what treatment I can undergo so I can get things sorted. But then, I've had issues for years now, I guess waiting a few more weeks isn't the end of the world really |
Most welcome. 
Sometimes people don't understand how simply having a NAME to call IT makes us feel just a little better. I completely get your frustration. *hugs* Good luck to you! |
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14794
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 10:47 am Post subject: |
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Ok on self diagnosing I do have an opinion.
1. some people cannot afford to go talk to a professional, but are still experiancing symptoms just the same...naturally if one is experiancing symptoms that are interfering with their life they might wonder what's wrong and still want to try and educate themself on what it could be.
2. what do those who oppose self diagnoses expect one to do with having symptoms if they cannot obtain an official diagnoses for financial reasons......just ignore them and hope they go away?
3. Professionals can scamp patients and sometimes simply make errors or come up with the wrong diagnoses....professional does not= an inability to be wrong. So they are not nessisarly more trustworthy than ones self.
4. why should one consult a professional for everything? what is wrong with people trying to be more self sufficient in general...I mean one should just keep their suspicions about a condition or injury on hold until professional advice is obtained rather then taking action they might be able to take.
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Asp-Z
Clockwork Planet
Joined: Dec 07, 2009
Posts: 11016
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Bloom wrote: | | Asp-Z wrote: | That was a very informative post, Bloom. Thank you for taking the time to write it
I'm one step closer to getting my issue fixed anyway, but I still don't know what my exact diagnosis is. It's very frustrating, I just want to know what it is and what treatment I can undergo so I can get things sorted. But then, I've had issues for years now, I guess waiting a few more weeks isn't the end of the world really |
Most welcome.
Sometimes people don't understand how simply having a NAME to call IT makes us feel just a little better. I completely get your frustration. *hugs* Good luck to you! |
Exactly, just knowing what it is will make me feel a lot better about it. Thank you |
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