|
shrox
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 12, 2011
Posts: 3254
Location: OK let's go.
|
 Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 2:44 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| piroflip wrote: | Religion is at best a ridiculous, silly, fairytale, nonesense and at worst an excuse to torture, murder, and wage war.
You don't believe me?
Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, well then look in your history books. |
I do get tired of this particular sentiment. Lack of food, disputes over territory, ego, and financial transactions gone wrong are by far the greatest cause of war upon the Earth.
Maybe you should be reading the history books... |
|
| Back to top |
|
Uprising
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 10, 2012
Posts: 2920
|
| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 2:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| shrox wrote: | | piroflip wrote: | Religion is at best a ridiculous, silly, fairytale, nonesense and at worst an excuse to torture, murder, and wage war.
You don't believe me?
Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, well then look in your history books. |
I do get tired of this particular sentiment. Lack of food, disputes over territory, ego, and financial transactions gone wrong are by far the greatest cause of war upon the Earth.
Maybe you should be reading the history books... |
Any silly far-fetched excuse is a good excuse for "holy" humanity to create a war and kill masses of people, that includes religion. |
|
| Back to top |
|
androbot2084
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 24, 2011
Posts: 3076
|
| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 3:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| A lot of wars get backing from the religious clergy. |
|
| Back to top |
|
naturalplastic
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 27, 2010
Posts: 4617
Location: mid atlantic coast usa
|
| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 7:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Mummy_of_Peanut wrote: | | Declension wrote: | | I'm a bit like that. I don't think that Jesus performed miracles and rose from the dead, and I'm not even sure that there was a single person that we could call "Jesus". But some of the sayings and deeds attributed to Jesus are among my favourite in all of literature. I especially love "let he who is without sin cast the first stone", and "everybody loves their friends, the really praiseworthy thing is to love your enemies" (paraphrasing). Powerful stuff. |
True. Even many atheists will agree that Jesus was a great guy (no matter whether he was real or fictional). I went to a comedy show and found there were protesters outside, because the comedian was atheist and they thought he was going to ridicule Jesus. If the protesters had gone to the show, they would have found that the comedian had nothing but good things to say about Jesus (although he did poke fun at some of the passages in the bible). |
Was the comedian Bill Maher by any chance? |
|
| Back to top |
|
Mummy_of_Peanut
Countess de Noir
Joined: Feb 21, 2011
Age: 40
Posts: 3474
Location: Bonnie Scotland
|
| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 4:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| naturalplastic wrote: | | Mummy_of_Peanut wrote: | | Declension wrote: | | I'm a bit like that. I don't think that Jesus performed miracles and rose from the dead, and I'm not even sure that there was a single person that we could call "Jesus". But some of the sayings and deeds attributed to Jesus are among my favourite in all of literature. I especially love "let he who is without sin cast the first stone", and "everybody loves their friends, the really praiseworthy thing is to love your enemies" (paraphrasing). Powerful stuff. |
True. Even many atheists will agree that Jesus was a great guy (no matter whether he was real or fictional). I went to a comedy show and found there were protesters outside, because the comedian was atheist and they thought he was going to ridicule Jesus. If the protesters had gone to the show, they would have found that the comedian had nothing but good things to say about Jesus (although he did poke fun at some of the passages in the bible). |
Was the comedian Bill Maher by any chance? |
It was Richard Herring.
_________________
"We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all we need to make us really happy is something to be enthusiatic about." Charles Kingsley |
|
| Back to top |
|
Danimal
Snowy Owl
Joined: Jun 16, 2011
Age: 48
Posts: 155
Location: West Central Indiana
|
| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 4:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
Who are the most avid promoters of military action? Evangelical Christians. If you don't believe me, tune into an American Family Radio station and listen to some of their shows.
I will say that Jesus really said nothing that people didn't know already. He taught the Jewish law. People were practicing the golden rule long before Jesus said it. Some other things he said were either nonsense or never came true. For example, people don't get whatever they want when they pray in Jesus' name. I doubt Christians are able to toss mountains into the sea.
I also don't see Christians playing with black mambas, putting cyanide in their morning coffee, or giving all their assets to charity. I think one of the worst things that occured was the association of thoughts with actions. That is, thinking lustfully of a woman is the same thing as having sex with her. Nonsense. I read about this same idea in the book 1984, which is described as "thoughtcrime". I have always had difficulty with a person who demands we place him above our family members. He even tells us to hate our families! Really, Buddha makes more sense. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Grebels
Toucan
Joined: Mar 06, 2012
Posts: 270
|
| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 7:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Danimal wrote: | Who are the most avid promoters of military action? Evangelical Christians. If you don't believe me, tune into an American Family Radio station and listen to some of their shows.
I will say that Jesus really said nothing that people didn't know already. He taught the Jewish law. People were practicing the golden rule long before Jesus said it. Some other things he said were either nonsense or never came true. For example, people don't get whatever they want when they pray in Jesus' name. I doubt Christians are able to toss mountains into the sea.
I also don't see Christians playing with black mambas, putting cyanide in their morning coffee, or giving all their assets to charity. I think one of the worst things that occured was the association of thoughts with actions. That is, thinking lustfully of a woman is the same thing as having sex with her. Nonsense. I read about this same idea in the book 1984, which is described as "thoughtcrime". I have always had difficulty with a person who demands we place him above our family members. He even tells us to hate our families! Really, Buddha makes more sense. |
I find it hard to even imagine where you got these ideas, but then of course I am from the UK. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Danimal
Snowy Owl
Joined: Jun 16, 2011
Age: 48
Posts: 155
Location: West Central Indiana
|
| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 7:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Not my ideas. These come from the gospels. |
|
| Back to top |
|
aarpar
Blue Jay
Joined: May 16, 2012
Posts: 85
Location: Winnipeg Manitoba
|
| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 10:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'll bite.
I think the church has pretty much spread so many lies when it comes to real Christian spirituality that I think Christians that are real should just meet outside of church and form their own family without organized beliefs or rituals. I mean think about it? Abstinence wasn't an issue until people mistook Paul's writing about sexual immorality. No one met in a church on Sunday, they met in eachother's houses. Jesus turned water into wine and yet some Christians won't even touch alcohol. Christians gasp when you say "Damn" or "crap" but Jesus pretty much called Pharisees sons of hell. And religion starts many wars.
Religion kills. Dependence and relationship with Jesus saves.
_________________
Thanks for reading,
A-Ron
http://www.youtube.com/user/thataaronguy204 |
|
| Back to top |
|
1000Knives
It's not difficult if you know how.
Joined: Jul 09, 2011
Age: 22
Posts: 4578
Location: CT, USA
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Danimal
Snowy Owl
Joined: Jun 16, 2011
Age: 48
Posts: 155
Location: West Central Indiana
|
| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 11:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Many christians in the US are already leaving the organized churches and forming house groups. The de-emphasis on christian sacraments has been happening since the sixties. Many "seeker" churches do not have communion, baptism or display a cross. Some churches are dropping their denominational labels. Baptists are notorious for this.
I'm not sure where this idea originated that christianity is about a "relationship" and "religion" is bad. Christianity is clearly a religion. In spite of the thousands of christian sects there is still a common orthodoxy, common practices, and a common dogma. Religion derives from the Latin "religiare" or " to bind together". To call a faith a religion is hardly perjorative.
When one reads the gospels, especially the gospel of John, we discover that Jesus frequently condemns those who don't agree with him. He insults his enemies, makes claims that have never happened, and is frequently condescending to his own followers. He also never fulfilled the messianic prophecies taught by Judaism. The majority of Jews were rightly exasperated by him and rejected him as a false prophet. I don't agree that they should have had him killed but the laws of Moses are clear that false prophets were to be executed. I'm not convinced that a relationship with Jesus is profitable or desireable. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Joker
Sinn Fein
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
|
| Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 7:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| No |
|
| Back to top |
|
Declension
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 21, 2012
Posts: 1654
|
| Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 7:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Danimal wrote: | | He insults his enemies, makes claims that have never happened, and is frequently condescending to his own followers. |
This is true. Some of the "awkward bits" in the Bible are not in the Old Testament, but are actually quotes and actions attributed to Jesus. However, these quotes and actions seem very "out of character" for the person who issued the Sermon on the Mount.
I can only assume that either the original story had a nice Jesus, and a nasty person added in the nasty bits, or the original story had a nasty Jesus, and a nice person added in the nice bits. Either way, I like the character Nice Jesus. |
|
| Back to top |
|
spongy
...
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
Age: 22
Posts: 7402
Location: Patiently waiting for the seventh wave
|
| Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 6:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
Due to some things in life Ive been spending some time around hardcore christians lately(I met a missionary that was kinda cool/she introduced me to her friends/they claim to understand that I have no wish to become a christian and Im just trying to understand christianism better).
One of my latest acquaintances is someone thats finishing his studies to become a pastor(just so you have an idea I mentioned that I may get a bible and do some reading instead of just taking their word for it and he gave me his phone number and said we could hang out to discuss any questions that may come up anytime).
Anyhow I was talking to him a few weeks ago and he asked me if I was aware of the path to salvation.
I replied that there are several different ways of approaching god and each person has their own way. Just because you cant give money to the church it doesnt mean that you are a bad person and giving money to the church wont free you of your sins/make you a great person if other actions dont corelate.
He explained me that according to the bible you just have to accept god as your saviour and mean it/try to become more like him. Whatever else you wish to do and how you wish to express that youve accepted him as your saviour is entirely up to you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
AngelRho
Synclavier owner/operator
Joined: Jan 05, 2008
Posts: 3726
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile
|
| Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 7:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| aarpar wrote: | I'll bite.
I think the church has pretty much spread so many lies when it comes to real Christian spirituality that I think Christians that are real should just meet outside of church and form their own family without organized beliefs or rituals. I mean think about it? Abstinence wasn't an issue until people mistook Paul's writing about sexual immorality. No one met in a church on Sunday, they met in eachother's houses. Jesus turned water into wine and yet some Christians won't even touch alcohol. Christians gasp when you say "Damn" or "crap" but Jesus pretty much called Pharisees sons of hell. And religion starts many wars.
Religion kills. Dependence and relationship with Jesus saves. |
I attend an older church that recently started making a push to do a lot more "Book of Acts" kinds of things including meeting in houses instead of Sunday evening worship. What we found was that the city-wide group meetings had over 4 times the numbers in attendance than the conventional evening worship format.
Organization has been part of Christianity since its inception, and the only point in organized religion is to avoid chaos. It does help a body of believers to have a unified faith, a common ground from which to grow. And those are basic things, such as an agreement on who Jesus is and the role of the Bible. People find strength in numbers, hence the benefit of corporate worship and the need to establish order in meetings.
What is harmful is when ritual or personal preferences become the sole purpose of meetings and daily practice rather than genuine adoration of God and living out Jesus' teachings. The true heart of Christianity in practice is a focus on doing the will of God. I'm ok with rituals that point the way to God. I'm not ok with rituals that exist for their own sake.
One thing that is really destroying Christian churches right now is infighting caused by disagreement on the choice of music and style of worship. If you only go to church for all the formalities and affluence, or if you just want to attend a rock concert with Christian lyrics, you've lost sight of the pupose of the worship service. I think organized worship works as long as the congregation maintains focus on Who is really the most important, above and beyond format and style.
Religion for its own sake is possibly the greatest threat to spreading the faith. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
