WilliamWDelaney
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 Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 2:55 pm Post subject: Why do atheists know religion better? |
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39397251/ns/us_news-life/t/survey-americans-dont-know-much-about-religion/
"Respondents to the survey were asked 32 questions with a range of difficulty, including whether they could name the Islamic holy book and the first book of the Bible, or say what century the Mormon religion was founded. On average, participants in the survey answered correctly overall for half of the survey questions.
Atheists and agnostics scored highest, with an average of 21 correct answers, while Jews and Mormons followed with about 20 accurate responses. Protestants overall averaged 16 correct answers, while Catholics followed with a score of about 15."
It is interesting that atheists tend to be so much more knowledgeable on religious subject matter than most religious groups. If you are a religious person, yourself, you really ought to find this appalling because your fellow believers have been getting lax.
However, it would be interesting to explore just why atheists end up being so much more knowledgeable here. For my part, the reason that I take time to learn about religion is that, to me, it's really kind of appalling to cast judgement, for better or for worse, on any belief system if you haven't bothered to learn anything about it first. In fact, I tend to think that the reason most people remain religious is that they haven't really bothered to explore the subject, but they just go along with whatever appears to be the most socially acceptable way to think.
I'm not sure, though. It just doesn't make sense that someone would profess a religious faith yet never learn a thing about it. To me, it's kind of inane. |
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Raptor
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Atheists are really closet Christians. |
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Rainy
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| I would say it's because the majority of the religious are poor and uneducated, but I don't think that applies to western societies so much anymore. |
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techstepgenr8tion
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| The kinds of people who care to really 'get it' quite often are the same people who take it seriously enough to where the eventual fatal contradictions, questions, and "Just take it in faith" leave them ice cold - thus they tend to go toward atheism because nothing about organized religion is working for them. |
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ArrantPariah
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| I wonder why the Mormons are so smart? |
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Kjas
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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Another factor to consider: since these are questions about religions in general and not just one, atheists or agnostics have probably investigated other religions at least a little bit - at least enough to know general facts.
In my experience, most people who are religious tend to stick to learning about their own religion predominately and therefore would possibly be able to answer much more in depth questions about their own religion, but not necessary about others.
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techstepgenr8tion
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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| ArrantPariah wrote: | | I wonder why the Mormons are so smart? |
It was essentially a 19th century reaction against religious secularism. Hence lax Mormons are at least a bit fewer and farther between than lax Catholics. |
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edgewaters
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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I think it has much to do with the fact atheists in general are simply more knowledgeable about the history of the religions. Followers are not really interested in the history that much - it's often uncomfortable for them and they have little interest in their religion as a social phenomenon, it tends to ruin their suspension of disbelief and take away from the "magic" (or whatever you want to call it) of the experience, and that is what they are chiefly interested in.
Most Christians believe, for instance, that they go to heaven when they die. This actually isn't Christianity - it was a major ideological battle between Christians and traditional Greco-Roman religious beliefs. The Greco-Roman religions believed that the soul passes on to the next world upon death in an immaterial form, not unlike the popular belief among Christians today. But the Christian position was, and still is in official doctrine, that your soul goes dormant when you die, until the Second Coming. It is never separate from the body, which is why burial (rather than cremation) was so important in Christianity for so long. After the Second Coming, all the dead are bodily resurrected and the final judgement takes place, with some being damned and the others granted immortality and a sort of citizenship in the Kingdom of God, which is established on Earth (with a capital at New Jerusalem).
Very, very few Christians are aware of any of this, except clergy. Ministers and priests know all about it, but they're mum on the subject to their flocks and try not to draw too much attention to it. |
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WilliamWDelaney
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| edgewaters wrote: | I think it has much to do with the fact atheists in general are simply more knowledgeable about the history of the religions. Followers are not really interested in the history that much - it's often uncomfortable for them and they have little interest in their religion as a social phenomenon, it tends to ruin their suspension of disbelief and take away from the "magic" (or whatever you want to call it) of the experience, and that is what they are chiefly interested in.
Most Christians believe, for instance, that they go to heaven when they die. This actually isn't Christianity - it was a major ideological battle between Christians and traditional Greco-Roman religious beliefs. The Greco-Roman religions believed that the soul passes on to the next world upon death in an immaterial form, not unlike the popular belief among Christians today. But the Christian position was, and still is in official doctrine, that your soul goes dormant when you die, until the Second Coming. It is never separate from the body, which is why burial (rather than cremation) was so important in Christianity for so long. After the Second Coming, all the dead are bodily resurrected and the final judgement takes place, with some being damned and the others granted immortality and a sort of citizenship in the Kingdom of God, which is established on Earth (with a capital at New Jerusalem).
Very, very few Christians are aware of any of this, except clergy. Ministers and priests know all about it, but they're mum on the subject to their flocks and try not to draw too much attention to it. |
Well, adherents of Olympianism also felt strongly about burial. In fact, this had long been a major impediment to scientific advancement. They actually had rigid laws against dissecting cadavers. Galen was actually antagonizing traditional thinkers quite a lot by dissecting monkeys and saying, "this is approximately how a human body works." He probably had to deal with the usual school of thought that regards anyone who presents an innovative or original idea as a perfect moron, no matter how self-evident his or her ideas actually are...I think that such people ought to be castrated, but that's for another discussion.
For a while, there were actually some Christian thinkers who were actually a little bit ahead of the curve. You have to understand, Christianity was new at the time, and it was the darling of people who wanted to overturn the status quo and try to advance into the "brave, new world." Olympianism was once enforced every bit as rigidly as Christianity ever was. Just for an idea as to how stiff-necked they could actually be, refer to the story of Antigone.
Anyway, you are quite right about Christian doctrine, there. Thank you for sharing it with us so succinctly. |
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spongy
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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One of my teachers used to say that the best way to criticize something is to gather as much information as possible about it and read it all several times then point out things that dont look right...
Imo most atheist havent done this but they have read the works of someone that did do it and they tend to pay close attention so that the arguments of the writer that did the research can be used in a conversation. |
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ruveyn
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Raptor wrote: | | Atheists are really closet Christians. |
Horse feathers. There are Jewish atheists who have zero in common with Christians. I know several personally. That have an aversion for anything goyische (gentile-like).
ruveyn |
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edgewaters
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| WilliamWDelaney wrote: | | Well, adherents of Olympianism also felt strongly about burial. In fact, this had long been a major impediment to scientific advancement. They actually had rigid laws against dissecting cadavers. |
Cremation was widely practiced alongside burial, and even in the early Greek period, the assumption was that the soul left the body as a puff of air or wind upon death. There was never any notion of bodily resurrection.
Laws against dissecting cadavers had nothing to do with any concept of bodily ressurection, which was an alien concept the Greeks regarded with horror (and to this day, Orthodox Christianity which was founded in culturally Greek Byzantium, has issues with things like the concept of incorruptible flesh). It had more to do with how they believed the body operated in life. They believed it was animated by the spirit. They were resistant to the notion that it operated on any sort of mechanical principles. This has much to do with their belief that the soul and body were distinct - opposite to the traditional Judeo-Christian notion that they are not.
The Egyptians are notable here. The Egyptians believed in a sort of bodily resurrection, and likely imparted this belief to the Levant, during their time there. This accounts for its presence in Christianity. But they imparted something quite different to the Greeks, because they were dissecting bodies for ritual purposes and in the process, gaining medical knowledge. The Greeks quickly overcame their squeamishness about dissection, becoming the first to conduct dissections for purely scientitic purposes. Much is made of the Greek prohibition against dissection but in fact, almost all cultures had it - the Greeks were just the first (outside Egypt) to overcome it.
Last edited by edgewaters on Tue May 29, 2012 7:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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blauSamstag
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| ArrantPariah wrote: | | I wonder why the Mormons are so smart? |
I know several mormons who were missionaries in densely catholic areas.
They all tell me that "soy catholico" is the only justification 99% of hispanic catholics can come up with.
They don't know what the doctrine is, they don't know anything about their faith, they just know they are catholic. Certain of it. |
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Rocky
This dude is one hoopy frood!
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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I have heard it said (by Penn Gilette, for example) that reading the Bible from cover to cover will turn people into atheists. In other words, if you know enough about it, you will become an atheist. That may be overstating the case, but would account for some atheists who know the Bible better than many Christians. Most Christians focus on the parts of the Bible that their clergy point out, and aren't aware of, or pay attention to, some of the more disturbing parts.
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Rocky
This dude is one hoopy frood!
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| blauSamstag wrote: | | ArrantPariah wrote: | | I wonder why the Mormons are so smart? |
I know several mormons who were missionaries in densely catholic areas.
They all tell me that "soy catholico" is the only justification 99% of hispanic catholics can come up with.
They don't know what the doctrine is, they don't know anything about their faith, they just know they are catholic. Certain of it. |
And how do they know that they are Catholic? Their parents told them that they were. Indoctrination is very powerful. Many never seriously consider weather or not it is true.
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