LunaticOnTheGrass
Snowy Owl
Joined: Mar 14, 2012
Age: 19
Posts: 136
Location: Under the Sun, in tune.
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 Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| Raptor wrote: | | Atheists are really closet Christians. |
You're right! All of them, even such people as Jawaharlal Nehru, first (Atheistic) Prime Minister of independent India. And Diagoras of Melos (Lived 500 BC) amongst one of the earliest known atheistic Greek Philosophers, clearly subscribed to the Christian dogma in secret!
Seriously, I could make just as absurd a claim that all Christian apologists drink themselves silly every night trying to keep up their pious facade.
Edit: Of course, I won't. |
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Greb
Phoenix
Joined: May 10, 2012
Age: 41
Posts: 565
Location: Under the sea [level]
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 9:36 am Post subject: |
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Well, in general atheists know about everything better  |
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edgewaters
hibernating
Joined: Aug 17, 2006
Age: 40
Posts: 2426
Location: Ontario
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| Declension wrote: |
Here is an example of how this works:
"What's your religion?"
"I'm a Christian."
"Oh, okay."
"What's your religion?"
"I'm an atheist."
"Don't you think that's sort of arrogant? I mean, how can you know that there's no God?"
"Well, I don't actually claim that. Rather, I..." blahblahblah |
That's it, more or less. Adversity evolves things. |
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Vexcalibur
Proud to be smug as heck
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Joined: Jan 18, 2008
Posts: 5379
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:26 am Post subject: Re: Why do atheists know religion better? |
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| WilliamWDelaney wrote: | http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39397251/ns/us_news-life/t/survey-americans-dont-know-much-about-religion/
"Respondents to the survey were asked 32 questions with a range of difficulty, including whether they could name the Islamic holy book and the first book of the Bible, or say what century the Mormon religion was founded. On average, participants in the survey answered correctly overall for half of the survey questions.
Atheists and agnostics scored highest, with an average of 21 correct answers, while Jews and Mormons followed with about 20 accurate responses. Protestants overall averaged 16 correct answers, while Catholics followed with a score of about 15."
It is interesting that atheists tend to be so much more knowledgeable on religious subject matter than most religious groups. If you are a religious person, yourself, you really ought to find this appalling because your fellow believers have been getting lax.
However, it would be interesting to explore just why atheists end up being so much more knowledgeable here. For my part, the reason that I take time to learn about religion is that, to me, it's really kind of appalling to cast judgement, for better or for worse, on any belief system if you haven't bothered to learn anything about it first. In fact, I tend to think that the reason most people remain religious is that they haven't really bothered to explore the subject, but they just go along with whatever appears to be the most socially acceptable way to think.
I'm not sure, though. It just doesn't make sense that someone would profess a religious faith yet never learn a thing about it. To me, it's kind of inane. |
I for one, stopped being a Christian after reading the whole bible. Catholics tend to get read the same biblical passages every Sunday. They are quite cherry picked. If you read the bible as a whole. The "not making any sense" parts, the "why is god being such a jerk" parts and the "what the hell, were people in drugs?" parts tend to stack up greatly.
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WilliamWDelaney
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 27, 2011
Posts: 1201
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Declension wrote: | | "Don't you think that's sort of arrogant? I mean, how can you know that there's no God?" |
This is where I say, "sir, I am contented with my beliefs, and I am not inclined to discuss the subject."
If that didn't settle it, I would continue to, "I resent this badgering. I wouldn't do this to you."
If that didn't settle it, I would continue to, "You have convinced me that religion ought to be outlawed. Now, shut up."
However, if I were approached thusly, "That's interesting. What do you believe instead?"
I would proceed to, "I am not sure I would call them 'beliefs,' per se. Between the cosmos and my knowledge of it and its workings, I am sure that the cosmos is the larger. If you are asking about my cosmogonical leanings, I am afraid that I am still muddling through undergraduate mathematics...I don't think that I have sufficient aptitude in the sciences to say that the question of cosmogenesis is answered to my satisfaction. As it is, my understanding of the topic is commensurate with that of a child, really. Now, if you want my opinions on the Bereshit as interpreted in Christian theology, I have explored that topic fairly extensively, and I have found many themes that correspond with those found in other Levantine documents, including those that have been salvaged in archaeological exploration. Did you know that..." By this time, I am bouncing on my heels like a little kid. I really do talk like this when the mood strikes me.
The thing is, this kind of rambling tends to leave people's heads spinning, so I seldom ever get to have an in-depth discussion on the matter. I am awfully pleased on those occasions that I do, though. It's always very much a pleasure to discuss this subject with someone who can keep up with me. |
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Joker
Sinn Fein
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| edgewaters wrote: | I think it has much to do with the fact atheists in general are simply more knowledgeable about the history of the religions. Followers are not really interested in the history that much - it's often uncomfortable for them and they have little interest in their religion as a social phenomenon, it tends to ruin their suspension of disbelief and take away from the "magic" (or whatever you want to call it) of the experience, and that is what they are chiefly interested in.
Most Christians believe, for instance, that they go to heaven when they die. This actually isn't Christianity - it was a major ideological battle between Christians and traditional Greco-Roman religious beliefs. The Greco-Roman religions believed that the soul passes on to the next world upon death in an immaterial form, not unlike the popular belief among Christians today. But the Christian position was, and still is in official doctrine, that your soul goes dormant when you die, until the Second Coming. It is never separate from the body, which is why burial (rather than cremation) was so important in Christianity for so long. After the Second Coming, all the dead are bodily resurrected and the final judgement takes place, with some being damned and the others granted immortality and a sort of citizenship in the Kingdom of God, which is established on Earth (with a capital at New Jerusalem).
Very, very few Christians are aware of any of this, except clergy. Ministers and priests know all about it, but they're mum on the subject to their flocks and try not to draw too much attention to it. |
You are very deluded and foolish to think thath when this is very very WRONG! an untrue. |
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slave
Always stuck between 13-38Hz and tired of it.
Joined: Feb 29, 2012
Age: 100
Posts: 1320
Location: Dystopia Planetia
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:20 pm Post subject: Re: Why do atheists know religion better? |
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| WilliamWDelaney wrote: | http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39397251/ns/us_news-life/t/survey-americans-dont-know-much-about-religion/
"Respondents to the survey were asked 32 questions with a range of difficulty, including whether they could name the Islamic holy book and the first book of the Bible, or say what century the Mormon religion was founded. On average, participants in the survey answered correctly overall for half of the survey questions.
Atheists and agnostics scored highest, with an average of 21 correct answers, while Jews and Mormons followed with about 20 accurate responses. Protestants overall averaged 16 correct answers, while Catholics followed with a score of about 15."
It is interesting that atheists tend to be so much more knowledgeable on religious subject matter than most religious groups. If you are a religious person, yourself, you really ought to find this appalling because your fellow believers have been getting lax.
However, it would be interesting to explore just why atheists end up being so much more knowledgeable here. For my part, the reason that I take time to learn about religion is that, to me, it's really kind of appalling to cast judgement, for better or for worse, on any belief system if you haven't bothered to learn anything about it first. In fact, I tend to think that the reason most people remain religious is that they haven't really bothered to explore the subject, but they just go along with whatever appears to be the most socially acceptable way to think.
I'm not sure, though. It just doesn't make sense that someone would profess a religious faith yet never learn a thing about it. To me, it's kind of inane. |
Atheism is known to be positively correlated with high IQ. High IQ individuals generally have more knowledge than normals and sub-normals about most topics including religion.
_________________
Since the birth of civilization, masters have controlled the masses.Our Masters rule over every nation and no one can defy them.They will attain Absolute Power as we reach the Singularity. Any who resist will be destroyed.I will not resist. |
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WilliamWDelaney
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 27, 2011
Posts: 1201
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Joker wrote: | | edgewaters wrote: | I think it has much to do with the fact atheists in general are simply more knowledgeable about the history of the religions. Followers are not really interested in the history that much - it's often uncomfortable for them and they have little interest in their religion as a social phenomenon, it tends to ruin their suspension of disbelief and take away from the "magic" (or whatever you want to call it) of the experience, and that is what they are chiefly interested in.
Most Christians believe, for instance, that they go to heaven when they die. This actually isn't Christianity - it was a major ideological battle between Christians and traditional Greco-Roman religious beliefs. The Greco-Roman religions believed that the soul passes on to the next world upon death in an immaterial form, not unlike the popular belief among Christians today. But the Christian position was, and still is in official doctrine, that your soul goes dormant when you die, until the Second Coming. It is never separate from the body, which is why burial (rather than cremation) was so important in Christianity for so long. After the Second Coming, all the dead are bodily resurrected and the final judgement takes place, with some being damned and the others granted immortality and a sort of citizenship in the Kingdom of God, which is established on Earth (with a capital at New Jerusalem).
Very, very few Christians are aware of any of this, except clergy. Ministers and priests know all about it, but they're mum on the subject to their flocks and try not to draw too much attention to it. |
You are very deluded and foolish to think thath when this is very very WRONG! an untrue. |
Look, kid, St. Augustine was one of the fathers of the idea of an "immortal soul," and he was heavily influenced in his thinking by Hellenistic thought. It really constituted a revival of Platonism, only it happened within the Church rather than in secular society. |
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YippySkippy
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 27, 2011
Posts: 1524
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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Most people believe whatever their parents raised them to believe. It doesn't call for a lot of thought - you just "inherit" your religion.
Few atheists, however, were raised to be atheists by their parents. Instead, they largely developed their views by reading, studying, and thinking about religion. It only makes sense, then, that atheists tend to know more about religion than theists. |
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Joker
Sinn Fein
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| WilliamWDelaney wrote: | | Joker wrote: | | edgewaters wrote: | I think it has much to do with the fact atheists in general are simply more knowledgeable about the history of the religions. Followers are not really interested in the history that much - it's often uncomfortable for them and they have little interest in their religion as a social phenomenon, it tends to ruin their suspension of disbelief and take away from the "magic" (or whatever you want to call it) of the experience, and that is what they are chiefly interested in.
Most Christians believe, for instance, that they go to heaven when they die. This actually isn't Christianity - it was a major ideological battle between Christians and traditional Greco-Roman religious beliefs. The Greco-Roman religions believed that the soul passes on to the next world upon death in an immaterial form, not unlike the popular belief among Christians today. But the Christian position was, and still is in official doctrine, that your soul goes dormant when you die, until the Second Coming. It is never separate from the body, which is why burial (rather than cremation) was so important in Christianity for so long. After the Second Coming, all the dead are bodily resurrected and the final judgement takes place, with some being damned and the others granted immortality and a sort of citizenship in the Kingdom of God, which is established on Earth (with a capital at New Jerusalem).
Very, very few Christians are aware of any of this, except clergy. Ministers and priests know all about it, but they're mum on the subject to their flocks and try not to draw too much attention to it. |
You are very deluded and foolish to think thath when this is very very WRONG! an untrue. |
Look, kid, St. Augustine was one of the fathers of the idea of an "immortal soul," and he was heavily influenced in his thinking by Hellenistic thought. It really constituted a revival of Platonism, only it happened within the Church rather than in secular society. |
People have had thoughts about the immortal soul befor St. Augustine. And I am no kid the name is Joker I am 23 not to many kids are 23 just sayin  |
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WilliamWDelaney
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 27, 2011
Posts: 1201
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Joker wrote: | | WilliamWDelaney wrote: | | Joker wrote: | | edgewaters wrote: | I think it has much to do with the fact atheists in general are simply more knowledgeable about the history of the religions. Followers are not really interested in the history that much - it's often uncomfortable for them and they have little interest in their religion as a social phenomenon, it tends to ruin their suspension of disbelief and take away from the "magic" (or whatever you want to call it) of the experience, and that is what they are chiefly interested in.
Most Christians believe, for instance, that they go to heaven when they die. This actually isn't Christianity - it was a major ideological battle between Christians and traditional Greco-Roman religious beliefs. The Greco-Roman religions believed that the soul passes on to the next world upon death in an immaterial form, not unlike the popular belief among Christians today. But the Christian position was, and still is in official doctrine, that your soul goes dormant when you die, until the Second Coming. It is never separate from the body, which is why burial (rather than cremation) was so important in Christianity for so long. After the Second Coming, all the dead are bodily resurrected and the final judgement takes place, with some being damned and the others granted immortality and a sort of citizenship in the Kingdom of God, which is established on Earth (with a capital at New Jerusalem).
Very, very few Christians are aware of any of this, except clergy. Ministers and priests know all about it, but they're mum on the subject to their flocks and try not to draw too much attention to it. |
You are very deluded and foolish to think thath when this is very very WRONG! an untrue. |
Look, kid, St. Augustine was one of the fathers of the idea of an "immortal soul," and he was heavily influenced in his thinking by Hellenistic thought. It really constituted a revival of Platonism, only it happened within the Church rather than in secular society. |
People have had thoughts about the immortal soul befor St. Augustine. |
In Platonistic and Hellenistic thought, yes! They sure did! However, it was St. Augustine who introduced it into mainstream Christian thought, and it was highly controversial at the time.
| Quote: | | And I am no kid the name is Joker I am 23 not to many kids are 23 just sayin |
In my opinion, anyone under 30 is a kid and too young to be having kids. |
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Joker
Sinn Fein
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| WilliamWDelaney wrote: | | Joker wrote: | | WilliamWDelaney wrote: | | Joker wrote: | | edgewaters wrote: | I think it has much to do with the fact atheists in general are simply more knowledgeable about the history of the religions. Followers are not really interested in the history that much - it's often uncomfortable for them and they have little interest in their religion as a social phenomenon, it tends to ruin their suspension of disbelief and take away from the "magic" (or whatever you want to call it) of the experience, and that is what they are chiefly interested in.
Most Christians believe, for instance, that they go to heaven when they die. This actually isn't Christianity - it was a major ideological battle between Christians and traditional Greco-Roman religious beliefs. The Greco-Roman religions believed that the soul passes on to the next world upon death in an immaterial form, not unlike the popular belief among Christians today. But the Christian position was, and still is in official doctrine, that your soul goes dormant when you die, until the Second Coming. It is never separate from the body, which is why burial (rather than cremation) was so important in Christianity for so long. After the Second Coming, all the dead are bodily resurrected and the final judgement takes place, with some being damned and the others granted immortality and a sort of citizenship in the Kingdom of God, which is established on Earth (with a capital at New Jerusalem).
Very, very few Christians are aware of any of this, except clergy. Ministers and priests know all about it, but they're mum on the subject to their flocks and try not to draw too much attention to it. |
You are very deluded and foolish to think thath when this is very very WRONG! an untrue. |
Look, kid, St. Augustine was one of the fathers of the idea of an "immortal soul," and he was heavily influenced in his thinking by Hellenistic thought. It really constituted a revival of Platonism, only it happened within the Church rather than in secular society. |
People have had thoughts about the immortal soul befor St. Augustine. |
In Platonistic and Hellenistic thought, yes! They sure did! However, it was St. Augustine who introduced it into mainstream Christian thought, and it was highly controversial at the time.
Many of past religions befor Christanity became the largest religion in the world their where other faiths with similar views.
| Quote: | | And I am no kid the name is Joker I am 23 not to many kids are 23 just sayin |
In my opinion, anyone under 30 is a kid and too young to be having kids. |
That would be wrong I am a young adult. My brother who is 24 has a daughter and a great father so your opinion is a weak one at best. |
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munch15a
Snowy Owl
Joined: Nov 17, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 153
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:26 am Post subject: |
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| I know this will begin the flame war but I’m sorry its msnbc they are not news they solely there to be what fox is to the right I would have to see much greater details on how the study was done and see other study’s before I trust it. |
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YippySkippy
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 27, 2011
Posts: 1524
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:52 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | In my opinion, anyone under 30 is a kid and too young to be having kids. |
I'd go with with 25 for having kids, I think. Not because younger people can't be good parents, but just so they have time to finish their education and have a little fun first.
I have friends that still talk about "someday when I get married and have kids" and they are 35-year-old women. It seems like a lot of women are ignorant or delusional about reproductive biology. |
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WilliamWDelaney
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 27, 2011
Posts: 1201
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| Joker wrote: | | WilliamWDelaney wrote: | | Joker wrote: | | WilliamWDelaney wrote: | | Joker wrote: | | edgewaters wrote: | I think it has much to do with the fact atheists in general are simply more knowledgeable about the history of the religions. Followers are not really interested in the history that much - it's often uncomfortable for them and they have little interest in their religion as a social phenomenon, it tends to ruin their suspension of disbelief and take away from the "magic" (or whatever you want to call it) of the experience, and that is what they are chiefly interested in.
Most Christians believe, for instance, that they go to heaven when they die. This actually isn't Christianity - it was a major ideological battle between Christians and traditional Greco-Roman religious beliefs. The Greco-Roman religions believed that the soul passes on to the next world upon death in an immaterial form, not unlike the popular belief among Christians today. But the Christian position was, and still is in official doctrine, that your soul goes dormant when you die, until the Second Coming. It is never separate from the body, which is why burial (rather than cremation) was so important in Christianity for so long. After the Second Coming, all the dead are bodily resurrected and the final judgement takes place, with some being damned and the others granted immortality and a sort of citizenship in the Kingdom of God, which is established on Earth (with a capital at New Jerusalem).
Very, very few Christians are aware of any of this, except clergy. Ministers and priests know all about it, but they're mum on the subject to their flocks and try not to draw too much attention to it. |
You are very deluded and foolish to think thath when this is very very WRONG! an untrue. |
Look, kid, St. Augustine was one of the fathers of the idea of an "immortal soul," and he was heavily influenced in his thinking by Hellenistic thought. It really constituted a revival of Platonism, only it happened within the Church rather than in secular society. |
People have had thoughts about the immortal soul befor St. Augustine. |
In Platonistic and Hellenistic thought, yes! They sure did! However, it was St. Augustine who introduced it into mainstream Christian thought, and it was highly controversial at the time.
Many of past religions befor Christanity became the largest religion in the world their where other faiths with similar views.
| Quote: | | And I am no kid the name is Joker I am 23 not to many kids are 23 just sayin |
In my opinion, anyone under 30 is a kid and too young to be having kids. |
That would be wrong I am a young adult. My brother who is 24 has a daughter and a great father so your opinion is a weak one at best. |
I was making a statement, dude. If you had told me you were 53, I would have said you shouldn't be having children until you are retired. I just thought it was silly of you to bristle like that over being called a kid, when it's not really that much of an insult in the first place. I have called 75 year old men "kid" for the same reason I called you "kid." You were reacting emotionally to factual content, and I found that to be naive.
If you have a problem with what others are claiming to be factual content, you ought to say, mildly, "I would be interested in seeing the sources of that information." If you are dealing with an actual intellectual, you will either be hit with a credible source or receive an apology.
Last edited by WilliamWDelaney on Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:02 am; edited 1 time in total |
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