LKL
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 22, 2007
Age: 37
Posts: 5741
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 Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:07 am Post subject: |
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| Joker wrote: | | Tequila wrote: |
There wouldn't be any point in having one in Northern Ireland because the populace would reject unification by a large majority. The Nationalist minority would not turn out in large numbers to vote for a referendum now (due to the dire state of the Republic's economy) and Sinn Féin know that.
And that news story is from six months ago.
| Joker wrote: | | And a very popular one I might add even amoung Irish Americans. |
It doesn't really matter that much if Irish-Americans like Sinn Féin or not. Unionists in Northern Ireland have had enough of many Irish-Americans and their bankrolling of IRA terrorists, money which was used to murder off-duty police officers, census collectors and bomb majority Unionist towns in Northern Ireland and set off bombs to defenceless civilians in English towns and cities. There was no glory in any of it. |
Yes their was glory in it we gave the brits pay back you reap what you sow. |
"WE"? |
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LKL
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 22, 2007
Age: 37
Posts: 5741
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:09 am Post subject: |
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| Joker wrote: | | Tequila wrote: | | Joker wrote: | | Yes their was glory in it we gave the brits pay back they only have themselfs to blame none of this would have happened in the first place it is wasn't for them. |
You're a sick, sick person. There was no romance in what they did. They killed thousands. The same applies to the Loyalists, who chose completely innocent people - easy targets - just because they happened to be Catholics. Not for any other reason, just because they were Catholics. |
^^^ The British did that to the Irish for 800 years. |
'An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.'
What you're advocating is essentially an exacerbation of what has become entirely a gang turf war, after the (mostly) peaceful resolution of something that was partly or mostly (depending on your perspective) a gang turf war. |
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LKL
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 22, 2007
Age: 37
Posts: 5741
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:12 am Post subject: |
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| Joker wrote: | | Seeing how I am Native American descant they will not target me. |
*snort*
dude, make up your mind. Are you Irish-American, or Cherokee? If the one, you can't claim that you'll be spared in the coming retaliatory wave of ethnic cleansing by the formerly oppressed Native Americans (/sarcasm); if the latter, you lack even the thinnest thread of connection to north end of that Island's occupation, rebellion, and subsequent peace.
edit:
a joke from the time of the troubles:
An Irish man is driving through Northern Ireland late one night when he's stopped abruptly by a makeshift roadblock and his car is surrounded by men with flashlights and guns. One of the men comes to the window, and asks,
'Are you Catholic or Protestant?'
The man thinks for a moment, and says, 'I'm an atheist.'
The man at the window goes back to his pals for a moment and has a discussion, and then comes back to the car window.
'Well,' he asks, 'Are you a Catholic atheist, or a Protestant atheist?' |
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Mummy_of_Peanut
Countess de Noir
Joined: Feb 21, 2011
Age: 40
Posts: 3483
Location: Bonnie Scotland
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:01 am Post subject: |
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| Joker wrote: | | Tequila wrote: | | visagrunt wrote: | | I'm willing to bet that if we dig deep enough in your family tree we'll find some English, Scottish, Cornish or Welsh in there. And that should give plenty of reason for your IRA heroes to hoist you on your own petard. |
Precisely. Or Irish Protestant, even. Can't forget those planter scum now can we? |
I have a book about my family history not one trace of English Scottish Cornish or Welsh in my family tree. |
A bit of basic arithmetic will tell you that you don't know a fraction of your family tree. 1 generation=2 ancestors, 2 generations=4+2 ancestors, 3 generations=8+4+2 ancestors, 4 generations=16+8+4+2 ancestors... That must be an awfully big book, if it tells you about every ancestor you've had (going back 800 years, as you keep mentioning that figure). Furthernore, you said you are Protestant. Although there is a Church of Ireland, which is Protestant, historically, the majority of people living in Ireland have been Catholic. Of all the people living in the Republic today, most of those who claim to be religious are Catholic. You still haven't said where your Protestant ancestor came from. If they came from Northern Ireland, they were probably descendant from Brits. Nonetheless, the UK (especially the west) and Ireland have very strong links. This is a group of islands. We got about on boats, traded, lived together, married one another. The Scots Gaelic language is practically the same as Irish Gaelic, because they are exactly the same people. For you to say that you don't have British ancestry is quite preposterous.
Ireland (or I take it you mean Northern Ireland) is not having a vote on independence. Ireland is not having a vote, primarily because it IS a republic already. Scotland is having such a vote, in 2014.
_________________
"We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all we need to make us really happy is something to be enthusiatic about." Charles Kingsley |
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Tequila
Trust the people!
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 26303
Location: Lancashire, UK
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:28 am Post subject: |
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| LKL wrote: | | orth end of that Island's occupation, rebellion, and subsequent peace. |
It's still "occupied" after 200 years and going strong! |
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Tequila
Trust the people!
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 26303
Location: Lancashire, UK
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:47 am Post subject: |
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| Mummy_of_Peanut wrote: | | Nonetheless, the UK (especially the west) and Ireland have very strong links. This is a group of islands. We got about on boats, traded, lived together, married one another. |
Exactly - the people of Ireland and Britain are very closely related to one another.
The people of the North West of England have a lot of Irish ancestry - I'm sure my ancestors were Irish Catholics.
This part of England has been the subject of centuries of Irish emigration to England - both during the period when Ireland was part of the UK (England had mass immigration by Irish Catholics after the potato famine) and all the way through to the present day. Irish immigrants have often been the backbone of Britain's economy - even during World War II, Irish labourers and farming was often necessary to help keep the war effort going. Many Irishmen fought in British uniforms during World War I and World War II - in fact, per capita, many more Irish Catholics than Ulster Protestants fought in World War II in British uniforms.
There are lots of ferry services and flights available from my region of England to various destinations on the island of Ireland. The people of the islands mingle freely - OK, there might be an odd bit of banter about being English when in Ireland but it's no different than a Scot or Welsh person might get in England (or vice versa).
We're all quite similar - the culture is (more or less) similar these days, as well as the food, the street markings, the TV, the newspapers, the sports (Irish football in the Republic is very much a minority sport, whereas in Northern Ireland the tiny clubs there are often marred by sectarianism - most Irish footy fans support English and Scottish teams!). We're very intertwined with each other and Irish people have all the same rights as British people when in the UK and vice versa. The days of monarchs ordering mass slayings of Irish people are long, long ago.
What I'm trying to say is that, to a greater or lesser extent, the different parts of the British Isles are all really familiar to one another, and you'd certainly never really feel culturally homesick for foods in any part of the UK or the Republic of Ireland. The accents are different, the landscapes might be different, but that's all. |
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Joker
Sinn Fein
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| LKL wrote: | | Joker wrote: | | Seeing how I am Native American descant they will not target me. |
*snort*
dude, make up your mind. Are you Irish-American, or Cherokee? If the one, you can't claim that you'll be spared in the coming retaliatory wave of ethnic cleansing by the formerly oppressed Native Americans (/sarcasm); if the latter, you lack even the thinnest thread of connection to north end of that Island's occupation, rebellion, and subsequent peace.
edit:
a joke from the time of the troubles:
An Irish man is driving through Northern Ireland late one night when he's stopped abruptly by a makeshift roadblock and his car is surrounded by men with flashlights and guns. One of the men comes to the window, and asks,
'Are you Catholic or Protestant?'
The man thinks for a moment, and says, 'I'm an atheist.'
The man at the window goes back to his pals for a moment and has a discussion, and then comes back to the car window.
'Well,' he asks, 'Are you a Catholic atheist, or a Protestant atheist?' |
I'm German Irish of cherokee descent on my fathers side  |
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Tequila
Trust the people!
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 26303
Location: Lancashire, UK
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| AspieRogue wrote: | | None which have the slightest bit in common with the Irish Troubles...... |
My point was that a hell of a lot more people were killed in those (usually in a much shorter space of time) than were ever killed in the NI "Troubles". |
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Tequila
Trust the people!
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 26303
Location: Lancashire, UK
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| Were your ancestors Irish Protestants? Most of the attacks of the IRA were not on English people but on Irish Protestants, many of whom supported (and continue) to support Northern Ireland's place in the UK. |
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Joker
Sinn Fein
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| Tequila wrote: | | Were your ancestors Irish Protestants? Most of the attacks of the IRA were not on English people but on Irish Protestants, many of whom supported (and continue) to support Northern Ireland's place in the UK. |
Some of them were Protestants some of them were Catholic. |
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YippySkippy
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 27, 2011
Posts: 1555
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| I think it would help UK/Irish relations (and the advancement of progress in general) if everyone did away with their national religions. Taking religious instruction out of public schools and stopping the institutionalized promotion/endorsement of a particular religion would go a long way towards promoting peace. Though the issue is much more about republican/unionist than catholic/protestant, it is still true that religion is used as a tool for dividing "them" from "us". Having national religions only supports that division. |
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visagrunt
Polymath
Joined: Oct 17, 2009
Age: 46
Posts: 5761
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Joker wrote: | | I have a book about my family history not one trace of English Scottish Cornish or Welsh in my family tree. |
If you have Irish, then you almost certainly have Scots. Your book can't go back for the entirety of the 800 years of oppression you claim, and somewhere back there one can safely assume that a cur got over the wall.
_________________
--James |
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Joker
Sinn Fein
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| visagrunt wrote: | | Joker wrote: | | I have a book about my family history not one trace of English Scottish Cornish or Welsh in my family tree. |
If you have Irish, then you almost certainly have Scots. Your book can't go back for the entirety of the 800 years of oppression you claim, and somewhere back there one can safely assume that a cur got over the wall. |
And how do you know that? |
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LKL
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 22, 2007
Age: 37
Posts: 5741
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Tequila wrote: | | LKL wrote: | | orth end of that Island's occupation, rebellion, and subsequent peace. |
It's still "occupied" after 200 years and going strong! |
didn't mean to imply that I thought that the rebellion won. |
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