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10 Feb 2013, 12:49 pm

Tyri0n wrote:
Does anyone know of something like Wrong Planet for NVLD? It's like everything about it gets ignored on these forums. I understand that most people with ASD have bigger fish to fry, but at least in my case, my NVLD is a much bigger impairment than my ASD (assuming it's even a correct diagnosis, which I doubt).

It's so hard and so frustrating to find information on this! People on this board seem to be content debating over whether a 10-page verbose "girlfriend ad" with lots of off-putting sentence is appropriate or not. I am not aspie or autistic, regardless of what the medical professionals say. I'm an NT trapped in a cloud, driving down the road trying not to run over pedestrians.

Any info would be much appreciated.


lol. l don't know why this is making me lol.

l guess that is kind of like me. A lot of the information for NVLD seems to be focused on kids ad special ed programs, anyway.

l've read about NVLD possible leading to schizoid personality disorder. l'm not aware of your specific quirks but for me l feel like my brain has split the way an autistic's can, but that there is an NT self in there somewhere liek you said.

l'm not sure of the connection, since so little attention is paid to adult NVLD, maybe some of these people are labeled as schizoids and handled that way. lt's a closer fit for me.


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Sarah81
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11 Feb 2013, 1:24 am

Gazelle wrote:
Sarah81 wrote:
This is what I learned at uni about non-verbal learning disorder:
If the neuropsychologist tests your IQ, he or she will calculate verbal IQ and non verbal IQ, as well as an overall score. If there is a big difference between the verbal and non-verbal intelligences, an overall IQ score may not be given.

If somebody's non-verbal IQ i.e. spatial tasks etc, is much much higher than their verbal IQ (language based tasks), you would suspect the presence of a language disorder - that is difficulties with understanding and use of spoken language but otherwise normal intelligence.

If, however, the verbal score is significantly higher than the non-verbal, Non-verbal learning disorder might be suspected. The person with non-verbal learning disorder may be quite good at language and verbal tasks, and logical, linear problem solving based on their verbal skills. However they will lack abilities in the traditional 'geeky' spatial intelligences.

A discrepancy in scores may also mean that the person got bored in that part of the assessment, so it really needs to be backed up with other evidence.

Beyond that my knowledge is quite vague. There is no medication for it - it is really a different configuration of learning styles and strengths from average. And a diagnosis doesn't mean that the person can't learn non-verbally. It really just helps someone understand their strengths in learning and to identify further areas of support.

I guess that, if you've been diagnosed with NVLD, you would already know this.

Yes I had a discrepancy in verbal and non-verbal IQ of 32 points or so and I have had an MRI and PET CT scan to determine if the visual spatial deficits showed up there. The PET CT showed hypometabolism in the left posterior parietal lobe which shows the reason why I have visual spatial deficits.


Oh that's interesting. My uni prac was in 2001 and NVLD was a 'new' thing for the professionals here in Oz at that time. The paediatricians had a team of specialised allied health and assessed children with developmental difficulties over a period of two weeks, before having a case conference to diagnose. They didn't routinely have brain scans for the children diagnosed. It makes sense that there is a specific area affected in the brain. With what is known about neuroplasticity now do you think it's possible to improve on your spatial skills?



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11 Feb 2013, 11:32 pm

Interesting because my 6 yr old son who has a PDD NOS dx has also been referred to as possibly having a NVLD instead. (He also has ADHD) I guess he has to be a little older before a test will be reliable, but I do think they look at the discrepancy between verbal and non verbal IQ scores. Interestingly I don't think he can truly fit NVLD as he had a language delay at age 3 (albeit a milder one and is fine now but still struggles with pragmatics a bit. Funny but back then he seemed to fit the profile of semantic pragmatic disorder more which is sort of the opposite of NVLD I thought) I don't know...so confusing! I thought that people with NVLD usually developed language early and well, so it didn't seem like it could be NVLD to me. I think some psychologists used that term to basically let me know that my son's social issues seem more similar to those with NVLD (as in milder and maybe not as pervasive) as someone with an actual spectrum disorder. (even though many argue NVLD is on the spectrum) Of course all this is totally complicated by the ADHD. So when I have heard NVLD in reference to my son, I think it actually may be a misapplication of the NVLD term. (as in he is so mild he is more like NVLD vs. PDD) Is that accurate? I have no idea.

Confused? I am. Like someone else said, you might as well call it HDTV for all the good some of these labels do. I don't think my son is really going to fit in any one explanation. He is a puzzle...lots of things going on at the same time, and some sort of conflict.



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12 Feb 2013, 11:37 am

Yes Sarah81 it is at least somewhat possible to improve my visual spatial skills.


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12 Feb 2013, 4:16 pm

Sarah81 wrote:
With what is known about neuroplasticity now do you think it's possible to improve on your spatial skills?

I distinctly remember not being able to visualize in 3D whatsoever until at least age 12. I vividly remember not being able to see the symmetry in a heart shape in 6th grade when I was 11. Now, I'm able to visualize in 3D a good bit. I still struggle with it, but to show how far I've come, I actually did well in stereochemistry in organic chemistry (when given ample time). I can do some pretty advanced visual-spatial skills now, when I have enough time to figure it out. But I will never be able to master split-second visual-spatial tasks. I still have a lot of trouble telling my right from my left when I have to give a direction on command. Like, just last night, my mother was ordering tickets to a show, and she wanted to know which side I wanted to sit on. I blurted out "left" when I meant "right", and I then had to visualize the seating chart to know what was correct.


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12 Feb 2013, 4:52 pm

Has anyone heard much about the NVLD-lazy eye connection?

l once read that it can develop due to the proper connections neglecting to occur in early childhood, l don't know how much truth there is in that.

l did have a lazy left eye that was operated on at age 5 and again at 10. l'm fine now lol. So, weak right brain activity, l guess since it was fixed l made more connections than l otherwise would have but a lot of crucial brain connections take place before age 5.

l don't know if the right side of my brain was weak and it lead to the lazy eye, or if some kind of abnormality in the nerves or development of the eyes lead to the misalignment which lead to the right eye being favored.


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12 Feb 2013, 8:47 pm

And am bad at spatial relations. Operated on at age five. Three operations by Dr. Kraft himself, world renowned children's ophthalmologist at sick kids hospital in Toronto.



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12 Feb 2013, 9:06 pm

When I had my MRI and Pet CT scan after the results of the neuropsychology testing it was suggested that I get an ophthalmolgy exam, but the doctor was satisfied that the Pet CT scan showed the reason why I have visual spatial deficits. In the past I remember the optometrist saying during my eye exam that I seemed to be looking very intensely at the objects in the exam and I know wonder if that was something unusual and maybe related to the fact that I have NVLD.


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RaspberryFrosty
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11 Nov 2013, 2:18 am

Sarah81 wrote:
This is what I learned at uni about non-verbal learning disorder:
If the neuropsychologist tests your IQ, he or she will calculate verbal IQ and non verbal IQ, as well as an overall score. If there is a big difference between the verbal and non-verbal intelligences, an overall IQ score may not be given.

If somebody's non-verbal IQ i.e. spatial tasks etc, is much much higher than their verbal IQ (language based tasks), you would suspect the presence of a language disorder - that is difficulties with understanding and use of spoken language but otherwise normal intelligence.

If, however, the verbal score is significantly higher than the non-verbal, Non-verbal learning disorder might be suspected. The person with non-verbal learning disorder may be quite good at language and verbal tasks, and logical, linear problem solving based on their verbal skills. However they will lack abilities in the traditional 'geeky' spatial intelligences.

A discrepancy in scores may also mean that the person got bored in that part of the assessment, so it really needs to be backed up with other evidence.

Beyond that my knowledge is quite vague. There is no medication for it - it is really a different configuration of learning styles and strengths from average. And a diagnosis doesn't mean that the person can't learn non-verbally. It really just helps someone understand their strengths in learning and to identify further areas of support.

I guess that, if you've been diagnosed with NVLD, you would already know this.


Actually, I had to do research on my diagnosis after the vocational rehab caseworker told me I had NLD. My psychologist failed to do so and only said I had a visual-spatial disorder.


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18 Nov 2013, 11:04 am

I was diagnosed with NVLD last year. My understanding of NVLD and autism is there are some common traits. For instance, I hate crowds and won't get on an elevator. I hate talking on the phone or having my picture taken. Children are a kind of STD. I am thought of as stuck up because I never initiate conversations at work and never go to work related gatherings, partly because I'm a celiac and there's never anything I can eat safely. But get me started on something I'm interested in and I'll talk all day.

My differential in verbal/nonverbal was 48 points, and I do have strabismus in both eyes. I've always aimed for big things but have had to settle for mediocrity since it seems most every vocation I've tried has significant right brained tasks that I have trouble with. Nobody understands why I have problems, so I hear "you've got to want it more" or "just try a little harder", "pay more attention" and other frustrating cliches. I have tried to explain my NVLD and people still don't get it. I had a nervous breakdown in the fourth grade. My reading and comprehension were on a high school level and my mathematical ability was zero. I had dyscalculia (dyslexia with numbers) and didn't know it until last year, forty years too late, so everyone, parents, teachers, classmates thought I was seeking attention or just not trying and I lost it because I was trying and could not explain what was wrong. I can all to easily understand why NVLD has a significant suicide percentage.



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28 Jan 2014, 7:21 pm

I was just diagnosed with it yesterday.



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04 Feb 2014, 3:13 pm

While I love Tyri0n's description "trapped in a cloud, driving down the road trying not to run over pedestrians" (it is actually very similar to explanations I have given people of walking through a fog), I disagree that people with NLD are NTs. I find I have many things in common with Aspies, and have had multiple people, including people who know what they are talking about (speech pathologists and psychologists) tell me I have some Asperger's traits. I don't think NLD is entirely on the spectrum, but I think it is related. I like the phrases "one foot on the spectrum" and "spectrum cousin". NLD is definitely more complex in terms of how pervasively it impacts your functioning than other learning disabilities like dyslexia.


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04 Feb 2014, 3:21 pm

Gazelle wrote:
Yes I had a discrepancy in verbal and non-verbal IQ of 32 points or so and I have had an MRI and PET CT scan to determine if the visual spatial deficits showed up there. The PET CT showed hypometabolism in the left posterior parietal lobe which shows the reason why I have visual spatial deficits.


Pretty cool that they did that test! I also have a big IQ gap (39 points between verbal index and visual index), and I've never had that kind of testing done. It would be neat though. I'm sure I have some neuro issues, since my left side is weaker (left grip is only in 10th percentile versus 65th for right), plus during my neuropsych testing she noticed that I always identified things on the right first, had more difficulty with visual-spatial stuff on the left, and actually missed a couple left-sided items on a simple test of visual attention, which is very abnormal. Where and how did you have that imaging done?


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12 Feb 2014, 1:40 am

LostInSpace wrote:
While I love Tyri0n's description "trapped in a cloud, driving down the road trying not to run over pedestrians" (it is actually very similar to explanations I have given people of walking through a fog), I disagree that people with NLD are NTs. I find I have many things in common with Aspies, and have had multiple people, including people who know what they are talking about (speech pathologists and psychologists) tell me I have some Asperger's traits. I don't think NLD is entirely on the spectrum, but I think it is related. I like the phrases "one foot on the spectrum" and "spectrum cousin". NLD is definitely more complex in terms of how pervasively it impacts your functioning than other learning disabilities like dyslexia.


If a person has NLD then they are not NT. I certainly don't consider myself NT and I relate better to people with ASDs.


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13 Feb 2014, 10:41 pm

LostInSpace wrote:
Gazelle wrote:
Yes I had a discrepancy in verbal and non-verbal IQ of 32 points or so and I have had an MRI and PET CT scan to determine if the visual spatial deficits showed up there. The PET CT showed hypometabolism in the left posterior parietal lobe which shows the reason why I have visual spatial deficits.


Pretty cool that they did that test! I also have a big IQ gap (39 points between verbal index and visual index), and I've never had that kind of testing done. It would be neat though. I'm sure I have some neuro issues, since my left side is weaker (left grip is only in 10th percentile versus 65th for right), plus during my neuropsych testing she noticed that I always identified things on the right first, had more difficulty with visual-spatial stuff on the left, and actually missed a couple left-sided items on a simple test of visual attention, which is very abnormal. Where and how did you have that imaging done?


I win. :lol: My VIQ is 45 points above my non-verbal on WAIS. I've never had brain imaging done either, though, that's really interesting.



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14 Feb 2014, 2:47 am

daydreamer84 wrote:
LostInSpace wrote:
Gazelle wrote:
Yes I had a discrepancy in verbal and non-verbal IQ of 32 points or so and I have had an MRI and PET CT scan to determine if the visual spatial deficits showed up there. The PET CT showed hypometabolism in the left posterior parietal lobe which shows the reason why I have visual spatial deficits.


Pretty cool that they did that test! I also have a big IQ gap (39 points between verbal index and visual index), and I've never had that kind of testing done. It would be neat though. I'm sure I have some neuro issues, since my left side is weaker (left grip is only in 10th percentile versus 65th for right), plus during my neuropsych testing she noticed that I always identified things on the right first, had more difficulty with visual-spatial stuff on the left, and actually missed a couple left-sided items on a simple test of visual attention, which is very abnormal. Where and how did you have that imaging done?


I win. :lol: My VIQ is 45 points above my non-verbal on WAIS. I've never had brain imaging done either, though, that's really interesting.


I must be on the low end of the NLD scale. My VIQ is 25 points higher than my PIQ.


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