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LoveNotHate
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12 Apr 2014, 12:09 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
you're being even more illogical than I thought you were.
Mr Sungenis is not himself a scientists. So what does it matter what 'model' he sets up?


It mattered to the person who created this thread.

Quote:
JRR Tolkien created a 'model of the universe' in which there are hobbits, orcs, and hobgoblins.

What is your point?


This thread is about Mr. Sungenis, and his geocentric model.

Quote:
Maybe I mustunderstood you. But I thought that you were saying that Mr. Sungenis was citing the work of actual scientists to bolster his claims.


He may. However, the website linked before, quotes Albert Einstein and Steven Hawkings who both acknowledged that geocentrism is empirically equivalent to heliocentrism (i.e., science has no empirical basis for using the heliocentric model over the geocentric model).

Quote:
That Mr. Sungenis CITES scientific models made by actual scientists that show the earth to be at the center of 3D cartesian grid maps of the Universe. Not that he created those models- that he CITES them to support his notion of a geocentric universe. The implication being that if you map the universe- the earth somehow 'ends up' at the center of the map of the universe.


Mr. Sungenis does not think science has it right, so he is arguing his position. He is not going to cite someone who he thinks has it wrong.

Quote:
My point is that its the other way around. When you make a map of the universe you place the earth at the center first. So thats why the earth always "ends up" at the center of maps of the universe.


What is being discussed here is whether the Ptolemic system or the Coppernicus system is representative of the universe.

Mr. Sungenis is arguing his version of the Ptolemic system.



Toy_Soldier
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12 Apr 2014, 12:54 pm

What is ironic is I remember Captain Janeway's hero in the series was Leonardo Da Vinci whom she admired for his ahead-of-his-time scientific curiousity and genius. Although unlikely, it has me wondering if the documentary writer set her up on purpose.



TallyMan
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12 Apr 2014, 1:00 pm

Toy_Soldier wrote:
What is ironic is I remember Captain Janeway's hero in the series was Leonardo Da Vinci whom she admired for his ahead-of-his-time scientific curiousity and genius. Although unlikely, it has me wondering if the documentary writer set her up on purpose.


Possibly. I gather she was paid (as an actress) to read a narrative for what she thought was a legitimate science documentary, but the guy edited what she really said to make it sound like she was supporting geocentricism instead.


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naturalplastic
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12 Apr 2014, 1:52 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
you're being even more illogical than I thought you were.
Mr Sungenis is not himself a scientists. So what does it matter what 'model' he sets up?


It mattered to the person who created this thread.

Quote:
JRR Tolkien created a 'model of the universe' in which there are hobbits, orcs, and hobgoblins.

What is your point?


This thread is about Mr. Sungenis, and his geocentric model.

Quote:
Maybe I mustunderstood you. But I thought that you were saying that Mr. Sungenis was citing the work of actual scientists to bolster his claims.


He may. However, the website linked before, quotes Albert Einstein and Steven Hawkings who both acknowledged that geocentrism is empirically equivalent to heliocentrism (i.e., science has no empirical basis for using the heliocentric model over the geocentric model).

Quote:
That Mr. Sungenis CITES scientific models made by actual scientists that show the earth to be at the center of 3D cartesian grid maps of the Universe. Not that he created those models- that he CITES them to support his notion of a geocentric universe. The implication being that if you map the universe- the earth somehow 'ends up' at the center of the map of the universe.


Mr. Sungenis does not think science has it right, so he is arguing his position. He is not going to cite someone who he thinks has it wrong.

Quote:
My point is that its the other way around. When you make a map of the universe you place the earth at the center first. So thats why the earth always "ends up" at the center of maps of the universe.


What is being discussed here is whether the Ptolemic system or the Coppernicus system is representative of the universe.

Mr. Sungenis is arguing his version of the Ptolemic system.


I am sorry.

I wrongly assumed that you had a point to make.

I didnt realize that you were just parroting what I said (the mr S advocates geocentrism) and were not actually saying anything about it.



simon_says
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12 Apr 2014, 2:25 pm

Robert Sungenis is a theologian, not a scientist . His interest is apologetics, not science. You can see the "quality" of his argument here: He's a typical cherry picker.

Newton used against him:
http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/Geoc ... proved.htm

Oh this is funny. He addressed the rocket argument I mentioned and claims NASA doesn't understand rocket equations.
http://catholicintl.com/question-38-february-2008/

Quote:
Cannon balls shot eastward should take less gunpowder than cannon balls shot westward to cover the same distance. But that doesn’t happen.


:lol: See, in his mind you could launch the Saturn V westward from Alaska and still make the proper orbit. The space agencies, and private rocket companies, are falling for a myth. He wasn't able to invent a way to get his magical spinning universe to impart energy to a rocket launched from Earth so he just denies it happens at all.

The Earth is not "fixed and unmoving" and Joshua didn't actually make the sun stand still to give light to a battle between nomadic raiders and a petty chiefdom in the 2cd millennium BCE. It's time to grow up. Babylonian creation stories are best left in Babylon.